The reason for Tajiks/Pashtuns divisions?

[badmash_khel]

The biggest factor is the geography of Afghanistan and also the economic situation caused by constant war and outside interference. Even Tajiks and pashtuns amongst themselves are not united. Afghanistan is a country of isolated valleys where majority of the people live, amongst pashtuns it might be tribes which divides and and among tajiks it might be the place they belong to. For example, Tajiks identify themselves as badakhshi, herati, kabuli, mazari etc depending on where they live rather than by tribal or ethnic name. pashtuns identify more with the tribe more than the place where they live. Its just difference which are natural as pashtuns are more rural and tajiks more urban. Some times people of different ethnicities who live in the same city and are neighbours might feel closer to each other they might do to the people of their own ethnicity who are from the village. It can be a class thing as well.
Ordinary people don't hate each other, its more important for people to put food on the table for their children rather than argue about pashtun and Tajik. Its only those in the west who have grown away from the native country and their bellies are full and have no worries that they talk about such issues. Many pashtuns fought under Tajik commanders such as Abdul Qadir of Nangarhar who allied himself with Massoud. Sometimes its just about interests and forming local alliances rather than ethnicity. Its not always clear cut.
Forget Youtube videos, for all we know it could be an american, iranian, pakistani or some other foreigner making those videos. There is no doubt that there are haters in both camps but majority of the people have too much in common to hate each other.

[badmash_khel]

One thing I think which is regretable is tha the ancestors of modern day Tajiks were Bactrians, Soghdians, Arians, parthians and so on who had their own language and because the Samanids dynasty chose Farsi as their language which led to the dissapearnce of all local languages.

[MostafaM]

By cultural connotations, Pashto was the language of the mountains and villages and Farsi was the "zaban e markazi aw kitabi"

I agree.

The split of the proto-Afghan people into Afghan (mountain people) and Dehgan (people living in settlements) is supporting your point.

Farsi/Dari as the native language of the Fars Sattrapy of the Persian Empire is not even an indigenous language to modern day Afghanistan.

The people living in settlements spoke their own languages like Soghdi and Khwarezmi.

Farsi/Dari as a language was introduced by the invading forces, it was accepted as the lingua franca by the courts and kings and the people of the settlements lost their mother tongues of Khwarezmi and Soghdi to adopt Farsi/Dari. These people were subject to the rule of those circles, the mountain people were not.

The Afghan mindset is that of the so-called "mountain people". Their code of honour is the guideline of conduct in Afghan culture.
That´s why even Dehgan (or so called Tajiks) call it "Afghanyat" and nothing else.

[Manzareh]

Because they are two totally different people with different cultures that are part of the same country, tensions are inevitable.

For example there are tajik girls on this forum, compare their attitude/words/conduct to the pashtun girls attitude/words/conduct, thers a massive difference, now picture them living in the same house, tensions are bound to happen.

[Laila]

^ lol there actually arent any Tajik girls here. But yeah i understand what you mean. This new generation of Afghans (and i mean from Afghanistan) do not want to be labeled according to their ethnicity, they just want to live in one country as one people. But of course, not everyone gets along with one another.

[asad71]

1.For centuries in Hindustan before the occupation of the British the conflict for power was between the Afghan-Pathans and the Mughal-Uzbeghs. With the strengthening of the Mughal power the Afghan-Pathans were pushed to the East and made Begla (based around present day Bangladesh) their bastion of power. Their warfare continued till Emperor Aurangjeb declared Hindustan a Dar ul Islam which won the allegiance of the Afghan-Pathan rulers and the people of Bengal.

2. We can see the same conflict re-incarnated in the tussle between the Pashtuns and the the Northern Alliance in modern Afghanistan.

[asad71]

1.For centuries in Hindustan before the occupation of the British the conflict for power was between the Afghan-Pathans and the Mughal-Uzbeghs. With the strengthening of the Mughal power the Afghan-Pathans were pushed to the East and made Begla (based around present day Bangladesh) their bastion of power. Their warfare continued till Emperor Aurangjeb declared Hindustan a Dar ul Islam which won the allegiance of the Afghan-Pathan rulers and the people of Bengal.

2. We can see the same conflict re-incarnated in the tussle between the Pashtuns and the the Northern Alliance in modern Afghanistan.

[Wahe Guru]

One thing I think which is regretable is tha the ancestors of modern day Tajiks were Bactrians, Soghdians, Arians, parthians and so on who had their own language and because the Samanids dynasty chose Farsi as their language which led to the dissapearnce of all local languages.

It is unfortunate that some languages do disappear but it is common in different parts of the world.

I have read on several different websites that Tajiks originally had spoken other languages but adopted Farsi over a period of time and discarded their own languages. I think I also read that this process of adopting Farsi started when Arabs conquered "Persia" and quite a few people (perhaps upper strata of their society) fled from the conquered Persia to the areas now inhabited by Tajiks.

Even amongst Pashtuns, there are tribes who discarded their own languages and adopted Pashtu. I think it is still happening today as the few tribes still speaking Indo-Aryan languages (like Pashai) in Afghanistan are switching to Pashtu. It looks that these tribes live in remoter mountain valleys close to where Nuristanis live?

[Wahe Guru]

The biggest factor is the geography of Afghanistan and also the economic situation caused by constant war and outside interference. Even Tajiks and pashtuns amongst themselves are not united. Afghanistan is a country of isolated valleys where majority of the people live, amongst pashtuns it might be tribes which divides and and among tajiks it might be the place they belong to. For example, Tajiks identify themselves as badakhshi, herati, kabuli, mazari etc depending on where they live rather than by tribal or ethnic name. pashtuns identify more with the tribe more than the place where they live. Its just difference which are natural as pashtuns are more rural and tajiks more urban. Some times people of different ethnicities who live in the same city and are neighbours might feel closer to each other they might do to the people of their own ethnicity who are from the village. It can be a class thing as well.
Ordinary people don't hate each other, its more important for people to put food on the table for their children rather than argue about pashtun and Tajik. Its only those in the west who have grown away from the native country and their bellies are full and have no worries that they talk about such issues. Many pashtuns fought under Tajik commanders such as Abdul Qadir of Nangarhar who allied himself with Massoud. Sometimes its just about interests and forming local alliances rather than ethnicity. Its not always clear cut.
Forget Youtube videos, for all we know it could be an american, iranian, pakistani or some other foreigner making those videos. There is no doubt that there are haters in both camps but majority of the people have too much in common to hate each other.

"Ordinary people don't hate each other, its more important for people to put food on the table for their children rather than argue.."

BTW - amongst "Indians" and "Pakistanis" the situation was similar to how you described and, for example, Punjabis of different religions (Muslim, Sikh and Hindu) were all living together fine and very closely. Not only Punjabis but Sindhis, Kashmiris and Pashtuns in NWFP - they were all living together peacefully. Then along came guys like Jinnah and others (though fault was not theirs alone or of one religious community) believing in fairy tales (Islamic heaven on earth!) and we can see how great it turned out to be. In Pakistan they even import toilet paper from China not just nuclear bombs.

[Wahe Guru]

By cultural connotations, Pashto was the language of the mountains and villages and Farsi was the "zaban e markazi aw kitabi"

It is sometimes said that Pashto and Farsi both sound like stones being shaken in a tin can!

[Wahe Guru]

Pashtuns and Tajiks are very closely related people, culturally and genetically. We are both Iranic people, both Sunni Hanafi in our beliefs.

The Tajik community essentially chafed under Pashtun control of the last two centuries, and since the Afghan jihad they are an armed emboldened community. They will not go back to being underlings of Pashtuns. Pashtuns have yet to come to grips with changing dynamics.

One of the key failures of the Afghan conflict, is the lack of grand bargain or grand understand amongst the groups needed to be build a future country. Because old relation structures have collapsed, a new one has to be created

Tensions are entirely from the capture of Kabul by Jamiat E Islami and the Taliban takeover

However these tensions are mostly from political leaders of the community. The common Pashtun and Tajik have no issue. In the diaspora, the 2 communities may stick to their own people, but the majority have no issues.

It also depends on what Tajiks youre talking about. Panjsheris are more inclined to be hostile, Heratis less so, and Kabulis are 50/50

Do not, I repeat, do not take the internet serious. Theyre all a bunch of chicken shyt coward kids with too much time on their hands

"We are both Iranic people.." - nobody can be so sure. e.g. Turks speak Turkish though 95% are not "Turks" but people who discarded their own languages and adopted Turkish. From what I read, majority in Iran are not of Iranic origin but local Semitic related people. Those in Eastern Iran apparently are more "Iranic".

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

"We are both Iranic people.." - nobody can be so sure. e.g. Turks speak Turkish though 95% are not "Turks" but people who discarded their own languages and adopted Turkish. From what I read, majority in Iran are not of Iranic origin but local Semitic related people. Those in Eastern Iran apparently are more "Iranic".

thats true...Iranians have alot more semetic and babylonian and turkic mixtures...although im sure tajiks have their fair share of turkic genes too

[Wahe Guru]

Sorry, but you are a frustrated loser, jobless and always looking for reasons of your or our own faults on others. Let´s be serious. Comparing Farsi and Pashtu is like comparing a BMW5 with a Smart. Farsi was throughout history used and promoted by it´s speakers. It became the language of nearly every dynasty and it´s speakers became high regarded vezirs, ministrers, governeurs. All dynasties from Turkey to ''East Pakistan'' had Dari or Persian as court language and it´s speakers were called ''People of Pen''. Khoshal Khan Khattak and Rahman Baba could not write anything without Dari influence. The same was under Ahmad Shah Baba till the days of Abdurrahman Khan. Dari-speakers dominated the ''Pashtun'' court, dominated the culture, dominated the medias, married into Pashtun and many more and made sure that they can take advantage of that chances. Even during the strong Pashtunization policy of the past to weak Dari it had only a small impact compared to what Dari had a great impact on the entire region. They even infiltrated into our ranks as ''Pashtuns'' to promote Dari culture. Hazaras became Darispeakers. Turkmen and Uzbeks are suffering from ''Darification'' because the Darispeakers understand the meaning of culture and language. As a Paki and a member of those Paki Waziris you have no right to talk about any Afghan languages, you SoB. Pashtu and Dari are equal languages and everyone can speak in that language that favours it at most. They did not imposed their language on us. They just promoted it. They did not said Dari must be national and official language. What do you expect from people like Daud Khan and Zahir Shah who fought for the ''Pashtun cause'' but could not understand a word Pashto? Pakistan is another story. 70%!! of it´s population are Panjabis and still they don´t force Panjabi or Urdu on the people. People chose it by themself.

Keep out of Afghan related topics, you infidel Paki

Soldat_Amir is Pashtun as he said himself. This forum has been started by Pakistani Pashtuns.

Lol there is nothing so great about Farsi. So what if it was a court langauge? It had its day - but that is now gone. EOD its just another language which does not sound so great (as it is sometimes claimed) to ears of non-Farsi speakers..honestly it does sound a bit like shaking stones in a tin can.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Soldat_Amir is Pashtun as he said himself. This forum has been started by Pakistani Pashtuns.

Lol there is nothing so great about Farsi. So what if it was a court langauge? It had its day - but that is now gone. EOD its just another language which does not sound so great (as it is sometimes claimed) to ears of non-Farsi speakers..honestly it does sound a bit like shaking stones in a tin can.

4 years ago I was at a conference in Italy. We were having dinner and I met a few people, and we became friends.

That night we were having coffee together, and there was me an Afghan Pashtun, a Iranian, an Uzbek from Uzbekistan, and an Armenian from Armenia, and we all spoke in Farsi together

Dont doubt that language...

[Aryob]

as a outsider I dont know the history of afghanistan very well, but can some one please tell me the reasons for the ethnic divide between Tajiks in afghanistan and Pashtuns?

I see there are many hateful videos made by both sides on youtube, so I am just wondering what is that exact reason of such hate between the two? is this hate recent or has been going on for long?

In pakistan for example Punjabies/Urdu speakers have had some hate between them since the creation of pakistan, but we never cross a certain limit, because we are after all human beings and muslims.

Firstly, I would like to ask is this even true? or is this being portrayed this way on the net that Tajiks/Pashtuns hate each other? I dont know the ground reality, so I can't tell

I think if Tajiks and pashtuns work together, afghanistan can be a prosperous country

I think you are relying heavily on youtube and western media to study Afghanistan ethnic groups. You should pickup a book from an Afghan author and he'll explain you the long history of Pashtuns and Tajiks/Hazaras living together in this region for hundreds of years if not a thousand. Pashtuns and Tajiks along with Hazara, Baloch, Uzbek, Aimaq, Turkmen have lived together and had intermarriages. Tajiks, Hazaras, Nooristanis, Kohistanis have faught for or supported the armies of Ahmad Shah Baba, Timur Shah and other kings in the history like the Ghoris, Suris, Abdalis, Hotakis etc. So no it's not true if you take Afghanistan's past 1000 years of history, the tension between the ethnicities are negligible.

Your comparison of Afghanistan with Pakistan is unjust and ridiculous. The tensions between Punjabis and Urdu speakers, the tensions between Punjabis and Pashtun and the Tensions between Punjabis and Baloch are expanded over decades now. And if you are good in math you'd see that even a couple decade out of 60 years is a huge number. The hate of a Punjabi towards Baloch and the hate of an Urdu speaker towards a Pashtun has cross all limits of humanity. There has been no invasion on Pakistan, there has been no war yet the state is crippled, people are ignorant, there's more shirk in Pakistan than anywhere in the world, there's been civil war like situation in Karachi for decades and yet you think you have limit? I wonder what limits would you cross when you guys actually are involved in a war.