The reason for Tajiks/Pashtuns divisions?

[Karachi]

as a outsider I dont know the history of afghanistan very well, but can some one please tell me the reasons for the ethnic divide between Tajiks in afghanistan and Pashtuns?

I see there are many hateful videos made by both sides on youtube, so I am just wondering what is that exact reason of such hate between the two? is this hate recent or has been going on for long?

In pakistan for example Punjabies/Urdu speakers have had some hate between them since the creation of pakistan, but we never cross a certain limit, because we are after all human beings and muslims.

Firstly, I would like to ask is this even true? or is this being portrayed this way on the net that Tajiks/Pashtuns hate each other? I dont know the ground reality, so I can't tell

I think if Tajiks and pashtuns work together, afghanistan can be a prosperous country

[Zurmati_Zmaray]

For me its clear Massoud and Gulbuddin

[Soldat_Amir]

Its all to do with influence, one side the Farsi influence took over half of Afghanistan while the Urdu influence took over Pakhtunkhwa, we as Pashtuns have always considered outsider influence as a basis of our being, for example we are influenced by Arabs to the degree we kill our own, Farsi influence can be contributed to the way the Durranis handled Afghanistan by marrying Farsi women, and reducing Pashto as a mother tongue, the Pashtuns in Pakhtunkhwa have always looked towards Hind/Hindi/Urdu/Punjabis as a centre of influence hence we are so divided and the reason why Pashto has no importance and is mixed with all kinds of borrowed words from Arabic, Hindi,Urdu and Farsi/Dari.

[IamDZJ]

What do you guys mean by "influenced" by? How is someone marrying the Urdu speakers or Dari speakers and then not making sure that his children speak Pashto as well as whatever the mother's language is (at least) become the Urdu speaker or Dari speaker's fault??
So to keep our language alive we should cut off all interactions with the rest of the world or people of different cultures speaking different languages from the fear of losing our own??
In Afghanistan most Dari speakers of one generation ahead do speak Pashto. Most Pashto speakers don't speak Dari. I never hear a Dari speaking afghan complain about them losing their language or culture and is not because they don't love their language or culture as we do ours.
Don't blame your laziness on others and ruin it for the rest of us. Most of you living in the west don't speak either. Who are you going to blame that on?? Or the fact that neither one of you has a beard touching your chest the way your great great great....great caveman grandpapa used to have?? Isn't that influence?? Who is ashamed of that??

[MostafaM]

What do you guys mean by "influenced" by? How is someone marrying the Urdu speakers or Dari speakers and then not making sure that his children speak Pashto as well as whatever the mother's language is (at least) become the Urdu speaker or Dari speaker's fault??
So to keep our language alive we should cut off all interactions with the rest of the world or people of different cultures speaking different languages from the fear of losing our own??
In Afghanistan most Dari speakers of one generation ahead do speak Pashto. Most Pashto speakers don't speak Dari. I never hear a Dari speaking afghan complain about them losing their language or culture and is not because they don't love their language or culture as we do ours.
Don't blame your laziness on others and ruin it for the rest of us. Most of you living in the west don't speak either. Who are you going to blame that on?? Or the fact that neither one of you has a beard touching your chest the way your great great great....great caveman grandpapa used to have?? Isn't that influence?? Who is ashamed of that??

You misunderstood theoir points:

a woman who gives birth to a child is the first contact person to her child; her language will be the first language that the child will be influenced by.

By marrying a woman from another culture or with a different language, you accept the natural influence of her language on your child rather than yours.

No need to get all emotional and divert the topic.

The Farsiwanization of Pashtuns in the city centres could only be accomplished, IF Farsi/Dari was regarded as "more natural" in the centres.
And it´s a fact that not laziness or anything else led to that process but the closeness of the royal family from the beginning with the language of Farsi/Dari, the rise of Farsi/Dari to the language at court and ministries etc.pp.

Pashto was neglected with full knowledge.
They realized that this was a major mistake during the process when a nation state "Afghanistan" was created.

[NokiaWnW]

Its all to do with influence, one side the Farsi influence took over half of Afghanistan while the Urdu influence took over Pakhtunkhwa, we as Pashtuns have always considered outsider influence as a basis of our being, for example we are influenced by Arabs to the degree we kill our own, Farsi influence can be contributed to the way the Durranis handled Afghanistan by marrying Farsi women, and reducing Pashto as a mother tongue, the Pashtuns in Pakhtunkhwa have always looked towards Hind/Hindi/Urdu/Punjabis as a centre of influence hence we are so divided and the reason why Pashto has no importance and is mixed with all kinds of borrowed words from Arabic, Hindi,Urdu and Farsi/Dari.

Sorry, but you are a frustrated loser, jobless and always looking for reasons of your or our own faults on others. Let´s be serious. Comparing Farsi and Pashtu is like comparing a BMW5 with a Smart. Farsi was throughout history used and promoted by it´s speakers. It became the language of nearly every dynasty and it´s speakers became high regarded vezirs, ministrers, governeurs. All dynasties from Turkey to ''East Pakistan'' had Dari or Persian as court language and it´s speakers were called ''People of Pen''. Khoshal Khan Khattak and Rahman Baba could not write anything without Dari influence. The same was under Ahmad Shah Baba till the days of Abdurrahman Khan. Dari-speakers dominated the ''Pashtun'' court, dominated the culture, dominated the medias, married into Pashtun and many more and made sure that they can take advantage of that chances. Even during the strong Pashtunization policy of the past to weak Dari it had only a small impact compared to what Dari had a great impact on the entire region. They even infiltrated into our ranks as ''Pashtuns'' to promote Dari culture. Hazaras became Darispeakers. Turkmen and Uzbeks are suffering from ''Darification'' because the Darispeakers understand the meaning of culture and language. As a Paki and a member of those Paki Waziris you have no right to talk about any Afghan languages, you SoB. Pashtu and Dari are equal languages and everyone can speak in that language that favours it at most. They did not imposed their language on us. They just promoted it. They did not said Dari must be national and official language. What do you expect from people like Daud Khan and Zahir Shah who fought for the ''Pashtun cause'' but could not understand a word Pashto? Pakistan is another story. 70%!! of it´s population are Panjabis and still they don´t force Panjabi or Urdu on the people. People chose it by themself.

Keep out of Afghan related topics, you infidel Paki

[MostafaM]

Sorry, but you are a frustrated loser, jobless and always looking for reasons of your or our own faults on others. Let´s be serious. Comparing Farsi and Pashtu is like comparing a BMW5 with a Smart. Farsi was throughout history used and promoted by it´s speakers. It became the language of nearly every dynasty and it´s speakers became high regarded vezirs, ministrers, governeurs. All dynasties from Turkey to ''East Pakistan'' had Dari or Persian as court language and it´s speakers were called ''People of Pen''. Khoshal Khan Khattak and Rahman Baba could not write anything without Dari influence. The same was under Ahmad Shah Baba till the days of Abdurrahman Khan. Dari-speakers dominated the ''Pashtun'' court, dominated the culture, dominated the medias, married into Pashtun and many more and made sure that they can take advantage of that chances. Even during the strong Pashtunization policy of the past to weak Dari it had only a small impact compared to what Dari had a great impact on the entire region. They even infiltrated into our ranks as ''Pashtuns'' to promote Dari culture. Hazaras became Darispeakers. Turkmen and Uzbeks are suffering from ''Darification'' because the Darispeakers understand the meaning of culture and language. As a Paki and a member of those Paki Waziris you have no right to talk about any Afghan languages, you SoB. Pashtu and Dari are equal languages and everyone can speak in that language that favours it at most. They did not imposed their language on us. They just promoted it. They did not said Dari must be national and official language. What do you expect from people like Daud Khan and Zahir Shah who fought for the ''Pashtun cause'' but could not understand a word Pashto? Pakistan is another story. 70%!! of it´s population are Panjabis and still they don´t force Panjabi or Urdu on the people. People chose it by themself.

Keep out of Afghan related topics, you infidel Paki

1. The Pashtunization process as you mentioned it was that of implementing a national identity. Every nation state is built upon one language and one culture.

2. Pashto is not just a language but a way of life. In this regard, Pashto/Pashtunwali/Afghanyat is what Pashtuns have imposed on the non-Pashtun minorities.

The main pillars of Pashtunwali/Afghanyat are unique to the people of Afghanistan and Pashtunistan.

3. The people of Afghanistan have to submit to that fact that the backbone of this country is built upon Pashtuns. After accepting that, a national identity can be built.

4. Farsi speaking fascists like you have no right to tell any Pashtun, no matter where is from , to be quiet on topics regarding the Pashtun/Afghan people.
Amir is a Pashtun/Afghan, we don´t know what YOU are. But reading your posts makes me really wonder how Pashtun you are. ;-)

So, just STFU, bach-e saqqaw.

[یاسمینه]

The reason for Tajiks/Pashtuns divisions?
I think you should look for divisions between Tajiks and Pashtuns in history, starting from VIII-X century. Since then we can talk about Tajiks as a separate ethnic group. Pashtuns and Tajiks as ethnic groups had a different social structure, background, different functions in the society, other jobs etc. The fact that Tajiks have tend to gravitate to Persia, and later to Iran is also important. But always there was kind of mutual "dependency" between Pashtuns and Tajiks.
And now? I think that difficult political situations always lead to a deepening of existing ethnic divisions.

[IamDZJ]

You misunderstood theoir points:

a woman who gives birth to a child is the first contact person to her child; her language will be the first language that the child will be influenced by.

By marrying a woman from another culture or with a different child, you accept the natural influence of a different language on your child than yours.

No need to get all emotional and divert the topic.

The Farsiwanization of Pashtuns in the city centres could only be accomplished, IF Farsi/Dari was regarded as "more natural".
And it´s a fact that not laziness or anything else led to that process but the closeness of the royal family from the beginning with the language of Farsi/Dari, the rise of Farsi/Dari to the language at court and ministries etc.pp.

Frog eyes( that is for calling me emotional ) read the title of the thread. If people are so concerned about the naturalness of pashtu rather than one's ability to speak it then maybe marriages between people of different languages in Pashtun regions should be banned by law. Might as well build a china wall around your little country so it's not influenced by those living near you. Heck, cut off trade too. We will see how that works.
Some change is inevitable. Your ability to speak other languages has nothing to do with the ****ed upness of the pashtu you speak unless uou are lazy. I have more respect for hazaras who speak perfect pashtu than Pashtuns proud of their ability to speak pashtu because both their parents were Pashtuns.

In other words, soooo?? Who cares?? At the end of the day, are you worried about a Pashtun's ability to speak correct pashtu regardless of the amount of influence around him or the naturalness of that influence?

[MostafaM]

Frog eyes( that is for calling me emotional ) read the title of the thread. If people are so concerned about the naturalness of pashtu rather than one's ability to speak it then maybe marriages between people of different languages in Pashtun regions should be banned by law. Might as well build a china wall around your little country so it's not influenced by those living near you. Heck, cut off trade too. We will see how that works.
Some change is inevitable. Your ability to speak other languages has nothing to do with the ****ed upness of the pashtu you speak unless uou are lazy. I have more respect for hazaras who speak perfect pashtu than Pashtuns proud of their ability to speak pashtu because both their parents were Pashtuns.

In other words, soooo?? Who cares?? At the end of the day, are you worried about a Pashtun's ability to speak correct pashtu regardless of the amount of influence around him or the naturalness of that influence?

Niggalip Dwarf (that´s for calling me frog-eyes),

there are some people who don´t want their language to be degraded to a second-class language although they make up the absolute majority of the people, have created the country with their efforts and are the main reason why something called "Afghanistan" exists.

Preserving one´s language doesn´t mean that you have to hate others or to stop interacting with others.

Without having strong roots of your own, you will get washed away.
Only if you know what you are, you can accept and respect diversity.
You understand that?

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Pashtuns and Tajiks are very closely related people, culturally and genetically. We are both Iranic people, both Sunni Hanafi in our beliefs.

The Tajik community essentially chafed under Pashtun control of the last two centuries, and since the Afghan jihad they are an armed emboldened community. They will not go back to being underlings of Pashtuns. Pashtuns have yet to come to grips with changing dynamics.

One of the key failures of the Afghan conflict, is the lack of grand bargain or grand understand amongst the groups needed to be build a future country. Because old relation structures have collapsed, a new one has to be created

Tensions are entirely from the capture of Kabul by Jamiat E Islami and the Taliban takeover

However these tensions are mostly from political leaders of the community. The common Pashtun and Tajik have no issue. In the diaspora, the 2 communities may stick to their own people, but the majority have no issues.

It also depends on what Tajiks youre talking about. Panjsheris are more inclined to be hostile, Heratis less so, and Kabulis are 50/50

Do not, I repeat, do not take the internet serious. Theyre all a bunch of chicken shyt coward kids with too much time on their hands

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

As for the language issue, there is no comparison between Pashtu and Farsi. Farsi is a wordly language. Pashtun leaders adopted it for the same reason Turkic Khans and Mughal Shahs adopted it. It was spoken in the courts of Georgia and the courts of Bukhara

[Ghundal]

You know the person who came up with racial classification was a drunk German. Iranic?

Asiatic

Mongloid

Negrozoid

Caucazoid

In regards to Caucasians, the only real ones who this term would apply to are from Bosnia and Chechnya (near the Caucasus mountains).

Putting stock in a racial classification system made by some German retard is stupid

[MostafaM]

As for the language issue, there is no comparison between Pashtu and Farsi. Farsi is a wordly language. Pashtun leaders adopted it for the same reason Turkic Khans and Mughal Shahs adopted it. It was spoken in the courts of Georgia and the courts of Bukhara

We do not compare languages for their richness or how often they are spoken.

We compare the cultural connotations that come with a language.
And by that standard, Pashto is what it is: the backbone of everything even distantly related to an Afghan mindset and culture.

Afghanyat or how an "Afghan is and thinks" is what clearly rooted in Pashto.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

We do not compare languages for their richness or how often they are spoken.

We compare the cultural connotations that come with a language.
And by that standard, Pashto is what it is: the backbone of everything even distantly related to an Afghan mindset and culture.

Afghanyat or how an "Afghan is and thinks" is what clearly rooted in Pashto.

By cultural connotations, Pashto was the language of the mountains and villages and Farsi was the "zaban e markazi aw kitabi"