Taliban 'poised to retake Afghanistan'

[badmash_khel]

Whether Pakistan supports Taliban or not to know is not important. What is important to know is should they? If you were in Pakistans place what would you do? Pakistan does exactly what Pakistan should do, that is to look out for its own interests. These are the exact words of Musharaf (read his book). Pakistan support for Taliban is the pink elephant in the room.

This "Taliban" that they support depends on who or what you think Taliban are. As we speak the Pakistani jets are bombing so-called "Taliban" in Khurram, Orakzai and Khyber agencies. Are they Taliban? Couple of days before Taliban killed captured Pakistani troops. Those Taliban?

The relationship between Taliban and Pakistan is that of the scorpion riding on the back of the fox. It is one of necessity. This is not a love marriage, but an arranged one where both parties have their own unique agendas. It is survival. To make it out anything more than that is ludicrous.

The only solution is for Afghans and Pashtuns from all sides to accept the existence of their differences or this will continue on for many more generations where the role of Pakistan and the US would be filled by another.

I agree with you. What amuses me is that hardcore Talib supporters totally deny this marriage of necessity. The Taliban need help so they seek it from pak army, pak army need strategic depth in Afghanistan to counter Indian influence and a friendly government which is not nationlistic so it won't bring up the pashtunistan issue.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

[badmash_khel]

Due to Pakistan support for Western war, over a million Afghans have been killed, and over 40,000 Pakistanis have been killed

Pakistan is not a peaceful nation at all

What are you on about? can you adress the questions posed to you?

everyone knows pakistan is not a peacefull nation. That goes without saying.

[tor_khan]

The media war or the couple of BBC documentaries, as you put it can't do much to change anything..10 Years, thats a long time to realize which side is playing whom and if the Americans had any cards they would have pulled them by now.

If the west can't stop a nation that is still developing nuclear weapons despite the overwhelming support it has from the arabs, what chance do they stand to start a conflict with Pakistan ? or more importunity what benefit ? a conflict with Pakistan would just mean given the taliban a new battlefield..a population of 180 million to contend with and lets have a couple of nukes flying around and see where the world ends up.



The part you miss out on is that WITHOUT Pakistan you would still be looking at a decade of war in Afghanistan perhaps even longer, the difference would have been boots on Pakistani soil as well

Talal, Pakistan suffers because of its poor press. The denial of Pakistanis of their involvement in rogue elements is actually dishonest to their home population. You mention it yourself. 180 million people and growing rapidly. That is significant. If Pakistan is ever going to meet their basic needs then it needs the investment and the goodwill of the international community. So press is important. The only positive press around Pakistan is that they try to convince themselves with on their domestic channels.

If there is a political crisis or a further backlash from the war, Pakistanis themselves suffer. Long term the will for an international charity case on such a scale is not there. Direct intervention/surrender of sovereignty becomes the only solution.

[Ghundal]

Why is Karzai being backed by 100 nation alliance (the most advanced)

Will Karzai stand trial in an international criminal court like Hosni?

[faye]

no-one should be accepting that filthy government in afghanistan, ghundal. it is an obscenity.

[badmash_khel]

Lol, Talal. out of 180 million population who will fight? A few million pashtuns who will fight to protect their homes and property and a few others. Baluch will not fight and sindhis and punjabis are non millitant soft people of the plains. They have no history of fighting invaders. Pakistani army could be obliterated in a month if the US/Nato alliance wants.
Except pakhtunkhwa, the rest of pakistan is not like Afghanistan. Pakistan will be very easy to conquer as proven by history. Using nuclear weapons is haram anyways and how will exactly they use it? bomb a city in india. Before pakistan does that the whole of indian army will be on their ass before they know it. I think most pakistanis live in delusion about their army's power and capabilities and the nuclear threat they posses. Its tragic to say the least.

[R3SISTANC3]

@ Resistance. Hence the nature and the reason of these symbiotic relations are important to figure out if there is to be a lasting peace.

You are right brother that is important. What happens quite often is that people make it out more than it is. The truth is somewhere in between. If one is to say that Taliban exist because of Pakistan, then one can say that Pakistan exist because of Taliban. My point was what we as Pashtuns and Afghans make of Taliban? Are they legitimate or imposed?

Pakistan support for Taliban is old news, the interesting news was the reports that Afghan MPs and police are joining the Taliban ranks due to prevalent corruption in the government. What is our response to that as a people?

[badmash_khel]

Why is Karzai being backed by 100 nation alliance (the most advanced)

Will Karzai stand trial in an international criminal court like Hosni?

can you answer the questions please? and also check out my other thread for Tal1b supporters.

why is karzai supported? Because he is the favourite puppet of the 100 nation alliance. The alliance knows Taliban will give sanctuaries to millitants from accross the islamic world which could pose a threat to their interests so they support karzai instead of Taliban. its a simple matter. why you making it sound complicated?

[Ghundal]

You are right brother that is important. What happens quite often is that people make it out more than it is. The truth is somewhere in between. If one is to say that Taliban exist because of Pakistan, then one can say that Pakistan exist because of Taliban. My point was what we as Pashtuns and Afghans make of Taliban? Are they legitimate or imposed?

Pakistan support for Taliban is old news, the interesting news was the reports that Afghan MPs and police are joining the Taliban ranks due to prevalent corruption in the government. What is our response to that as a people?

I was wondering which Afghan MPs these are?

[tor_khan]

Why is Karzai being backed by 100 nation alliance (the most advanced)

Will Karzai stand trial in an international criminal court like Hosni?

Hosni Mubarak is on a stretcher and he is not standing in an international court, but some stop-start Egyptian court.

You really think that Karzai is equally comparable with Mubarak?

Rhetorical question. I don't really need an answer.

[Ghundal]

Hosni Mubarak is on a stretcher and he is not standing in an international court, but some stop-start Egyptian court.

You really think that Karzai is equally comparable with Mubarak?

Rhetorical question. I don't really need an answer.

That's not a rhetorical question. How in the world is it rhetorical. He endorses war.

In fact, he has been wishing for war on the nation since before 2001.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=25526

...By the turn of the 21st Century, current President Hamid Karzai was busy travelling the world. He flew to Rome to briefly meet the exiled King, before appearing in several United States Congressional committees, including the Senate Foreign Relations committee. Karzai described these visits as successful in cultivating "political support", but found that he was unable to gain "real backing for a military occupation in Afghanistan",


This from "the Ghost of King Zahir"

To say otherwise in the face of such a brutal war being conducted is ridiculous


War is not peace

freedom is not slavery

[NokiaWnW]

no-one should be accepting that filthy government in afghanistan, ghundal. it is an obscenity.

Noone accept that illigitimated government in Afghanistan, except some individuals and the Karzai clan itself. Inshallah, one day all of these b*** will be judged by the people no matter where these criminals with their families live

[NokiaWnW]

Lol, Talal. out of 180 million population who will fight? A few million pashtuns who will fight to protect their homes and property and a few others. Baluch will not fight and sindhis and punjabis are non millitant soft people of the plains. They have no history of fighting invaders. Pakistani army could be obliterated in a month if the US/Nato alliance wants.
Except pakhtunkhwa, the rest of pakistan is not like Afghanistan. Pakistan will be very easy to conquer as proven by history. Using nuclear weapons is haram anyways and how will exactly they use it? bomb a city in india. Before pakistan does that the whole of indian army will be on their ass before they know it. I think most pakistanis live in delusion about their army's power and capabilities and the nuclear threat they posses. Its tragic to say the least.

Entire Pakistan is easy to conquer. No corner of Pakistan is difficult but it is a modern state and in modern world wars have not much great meaning as in the past. What counts today is diplomacy. War is the last decision. Invaders did conquer it in the past with sword and shields and today in the 21th century it will be nothing to march through. Alexander had no problems to reach Indus river, such as the Mongols or Turks with savage Arab enclaves. Many other invadors from Near East and natives of the Indian sub-continent conquered, too, large parts of the region, even Afghanistan (i.e Mauryas/Guptas)

[khushal]

Typically today's NATO report, has been denied by Pakistan, but as far as the international commentators are concerned, it is a no-brainer. It's time everyone came clean. Take this comment, from the BBC.A senior al-Qaeda commander in Kunar province said: 'Pakistan knows everything. They control everything. I can't [expletive] on a tree in Kunar [province] without them watching. The Taliban are not Islam. The Taliban are Islamabad.'

this comment does not make sense.
first many of these reporters are directed to say AL Quada vs TAliban so as to amke the war seem the war on terror instead ofthe war agaisnt the afghans.

second how could the ISI know what the insurgent is doing on a tree in kunar if the most highly skilled and technological advanced intellegence organization(the CIA who found osama in pakistan) not know. this quote is propaganda from the NDS who likes to scapegoat the ISI on its own incompetence.

[khushal]

Talal, these things are timed, you and I know. However, even with that said, Pakistan is losing the media 'war' on this one and that triggers denial. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16831875

Like I said in my posting before, it would be good if everyone came clean - NATO/the US and Pakistan. A decade of war in Afghanistan would NOT have been possible WITHOUT Pakistan. That's the other way of looking at this.

what do you mean. everyone knows whats up. the US knows that the taliban have sactuary in pakistan as does the groups hostile to india. the difference is that india has taken care of business and those groups are just a nuisance. the groups have no support from the people. the taliban on the other hand is a threat to the afghan government because they have failed to take care of business.

Iran sanctioned groups that were hostile to saddam and saddam sanctioned groups hostile to iran. this is no secrete. the issue is beyond pakistans support for the taliban, it si much deeper than that.