Split Discussion: Persian Gulf or Arabian Gulf?

[al-arab]

apparently the maldivian government having been saving to buy land for their people. australia and india are 2 of the destinations they have in mind.
another really great spot for diving and snorkelling is palau sipidan off the coast of sabah, borneo. this is the best underwater experience i have had. the underwater was as clear as above water. the reef was pristine and had been fully protected for about 20 years. sabah itself is fantastic, the food, the people and the diversity of the environment.

What about the Great Barrier Reaf in Asutralia?

I can myself recommend the Red Sea coast of Saudi Arabia an Egypt and also the Arabian Gulf (also known as persian gulf in the west) Also the sea in Oman is very beautiful. But I have only been under water in Red Sea.

[badmash_khel]

Dear al-arab, its the persian gulf not arabian gulf. throughout history its been know as persian gulf through out history. Only since the 1960s with the pan arab movement of gamal abdul nasser it was attempted to change the name. its very offensive to persians to name it Arabian gulf. even arab sources throughout history call it persian gulf.

[Karachi]

here we go again, more pan-arab politics, even if a thread has nothing to do with it. Before I thought you were some kind of religious radical extremist, but I now think you are actually a arab nationalist extremist, you are just hiding behind the Islam card, go support your saddam and his baath party. we already know you love Saddam

[badmash_khel]

Brother, but half of the gulf border Arab countries (Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Oman). I know many Arabs who call it Arab Gulf. They called it when I lived in UAE. Also the territories of Iran that borders the Golf are actually old Arab territory (Khurzestan) and most Sunnis in Iran live in those areas. What do you call it in Pashto?

look at the old ottoman maps and the old maps printed in arab coutries, they either name it khaleej al ajam or khaleej e fars. The UN recognize it as "persian gulf" and so did the greeks. countries like iraq were not arab in old times but related to arabs like summerians, akkadians, elamites and so on. after islam people of messopotamia adopted arabic and became arab by culture. real arabs are the "Qahtani" arabs from yemens with the highest J1 haplogroup. This word arab is quite new in the persian gulf region. its not an important issue and muslims shouldn't argue over it. one of my iranian teachers told me about this issue a while back so thats how i know. we pashtuns call it "khaleej e pars".

[Karachi]

Karachi stupid as always. If anything I have wrote many, many posts in the religious forum unlike you.

And I did not start any debate, brother badmash_khel commented on my post that had nothing to do with Persian Gulf I just called it Arab Gulf because we Arabs call it that sometimes and sometimes not. I don't see the problem.

But you have already been exposed as an liar in my thread while you cannot prove anything about me so the truth speaks for itself. You have written many racists posts about Arabs and your posts about Islam show that you just recently became Muslim as you, yourself have claimed so. Not to mention your un-Islamic posts.

there is nothing Islamic about your posts. you are trying to deceive people, you are nothing but a liar and Saddam supporting arab nationalist. Again go support your baath party and stop ruining my thread with your arab nationalistic filth.

[faye]

come on guys. don't crap on this beautiful thread. are we not allowed to enjoy any beauty on this forum without politics, smearing it's ugly head all over it?

[Karachi]

Liar. I like how desperate you are. There is an whole thread about you being exposed as an liar and you have nothing about me. You have yourself admitted that you first recently became an Muslim. Don't make me find that quote of yours.

You also told me that you had never insulted Pashtuns but I found several quotes of yours where you had done exactly that. They can be found in my thread called "racists exposed".

So keep your dignity my Indian cow worshipping friend.

where? i didn't see that thread? even in the thread you posted I wasn;t insulting pashtuns. you must be a blind

go back to riding camels

[Karachi]

Yes, just like your had never insulted Pashtuns. You are an great liar. I must give you that. Now don't reply to me while I have an conversation with another member and distract this thread when I talked about beatiful clear seas from Red Sea to Maldives and Great Barrier Reaf.

please qoute the the exact sentence where I insult pashtuns. I want to see who is the liar, you or me.

[badmash_khel]

No need to start such a stupid debate. We Arabs call it Arab Gulf in informal language I don't see the problem.

I am from Al-Hussaini tribe (Banu Hashim) which is originally from Hijaz, just so you no. Most Arab tribes from Iraq are from that region and Hijaz. Apart from that the oldest semitic culture is from Iraq. The oldest Arabic scripture is from Iraq (Kufa - Kufa scripture) and the origin of Arabs are fought to be somewhere near Mesopotamia west of it. The Haplogroup J1 is just as high in Saudi Arabia and Iraq (among the Arabs, not Kurds of course) like in Yemen.

The Iranians like to fabricated lies to seperate us Arabs. And they hate Iraqis since ancient times because we have older culture and always won against them in wars and made them Muslims and changed all of their old culture. Since that time they have had an inferior-complex.

You are confusing semitic with Arabic. Arabs are a branch of Semitic peoples and arabic is a branch of semitic languages. The people who lived in messopotamia didn't speak arabic nor did the people of babylon. Arabic langauges was adopted after islam and your tribe travelled to mesopotamia after islam. I am not saying there were no arab tribes in iraq before islam but they were mainly in the desert, the beduin arabs. The people of the the settled civilization in messopotamia were not known as arabs back then. there were sumerians, akkadian, babylonians, elmaites, assyrians and so on. arab tribes came with the conquest of persian sassanid empire. I am not saying there were no arabs in Iraq but certainly arabs were not the majority before islam in iraq. /

The kufic script is not the oldest scripture of arabic. There existed old arabic in "nabatean" scirpture which was derived from aramaic script. this was 200 years ago before islam. The oldest islamic manuscripts are in kufic script though. I agree about that.

J1 is the highest in north eastern yemen, syria and iraq are a mixture of j1 and j2.
do you agree that prophet mohmmad (saw) was from the adnanite tribe and not originally arab? Didn't ismail (as) come from another land to macca? what was the langauge of Ibrahim (as)? so you see your ancestors are semitic but not original arabs. "Qahtanite" are known as the original arabs. I

I can give you proof for my claims. you can read them on wikipedia (i know not a good source but i can look for more)

Iranians don't have a complex with arabs, maybe some do because they are zoroastrians. its normal to be rivals with your neighbours. Don't forget that persians ruled arabs first for almost 500 years by Acheminid persian empire and then by Sassanids for a few hundred years more. If anything, persians have ruled arabs throughout history. The greatest scholars of islam, abu hanifa, bukhari, thirmidhi, tabari, ibn sina, were all persians. persians have done more for islam and to spread it in the indian subcontinent than arabs probably. its not fair to generalize iranians.

[badmash_khel]

Brother badmash_khel read my message in the Iraq thread about the subject (there are sources so do not worry)



Also, brother, there lived Arab tribes hundred of years before Islam came to the world. The original homeland of Arabs strechtes from The Arabian Peninsula from Yemen in south to Syria, Iraq and Jordan in north (Syrian desert).

See this:

Lakhmids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so i read your link about lakhmids and this is what it says

The Lakhmid Kingdom was founded by the Lakhum tribe that emigrated from Yemen in the 2nd century and ruled by the Banu Lakhm, hence the name given it.

so you prove my point that original arabs are from yemen. it says they emigrated to the current land of Iraq.

dear al-arab.
You are confusing alot of things here, maybe because English is not your primary language. Semitic doesn't mean only arab, semitics include alot of other tribes as well like phoenicians, akkadians, summerians, elamites and so on. Before the advent of islam most of the people of iraq didn't speak arabic. Thats a fact. you can't dispute it. After the spread of islam people of different semitic origin adopted arabic and then they were known as arabs. I agree that today arab land stretches from yemen to syria and iraq to morocco. But we are talking about history here before islam and why the name was "persian gulf" in greek sources and not "arabian gulf"

I hope you undrestand me, if not we are just derailing the thread and maybe language barrier is too great.

[Karachi]

Are you mentally handicapped Karachi or do you just love to lie and deny the truth EVEN when you are exposed?

For proof of the fools racism which he still deny. He even denies to have seen the thread even though he has written in the thread. How stupid/desperate can one be?

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-11/racists-exposed-25078/

Some quotes:

"Pakistan would never beg afghanis ok, we are like 200 times powerful then you, you are like ants infront of us, the only reason we care about stuff happening on our western borders is because we are allowing too many afghans too roam in to our country for free, and the only thing you guys bring is either drugs or terrorism and this is what has destroying our country. I think its time we get rid of every single afghan living in pakistan, because you eat from out plate, but then you backstab us by doing terrorism and spreading drugs in our country." (Karachi)

"Personally i dont mind indians anymore, they might be our enemy on paper but i think they are not that bad, unfortunatly our government/army is just plain stupid to understand this, however our real enemy is (afghanistan) the hate you afghans have for pakistan is much much higher then the hate indians have for pakistan." (Karachi)

(I wonder why Karachi does not have a problem with Indians since he himself is an
Muhajir from New Delhi (Indian Muslim and immigrant to Pakistan)

"go check the list of so called famous hindustanis i provided earlier, many of pakistan's great artist are so called "hindustanis" even the famous Nazia/zoheb hassan, which every one loves in pakistan, even Musharaff who was loved by many pakistanis earlier, was so called hindustani. again bengali you know nothing about pakistan, before insulting pakistanis look at yourself first, no body in south asia likes you, even indians hate you because you guys are polluting their country by pouring in millions, the best thing that ever happend to pakistan was to get rid of you. God knows why our country was even one before, you are so different that its not even funny, even indians make fun of you every time" (Karachi)

(Karachis reply to brother Bengal-Tiger and clear racism towards Bengali people)

"sorry but i dont believe this for a minute, trusting afghans was the biggest mistake pakistan ever made, it has totally ruined our country. Hopefully pakistanis will soon realise this and stop blaming every little problem on india, they are not seeing the real truth, real problem is coming from our western border, afghans can never be trusted, not on a political level and not on a personal level" (Karachi)

Yes, I am clearly an liar and you have never said anything insulting about Pashtuns. You really are a fool without reach. A soon to be 30 year old fool in fact which is even more sad.

Blind al Arab. out of all the qouted stuff where have I used the word "pashtun"?

I think lying is your habit, it has made you a blind fool

[faye]

karachi, get a mod to put all the irrelevent stuff as another thread. what badmash has said is worth saving ;-)

[badmash_khel]

You forget that the origin of Arabs are not known fully. The first mention of Arabs was by Assyrians which was an description of Beduins. Arabs are the same as the semitic people who lived in Mesopotamia and elsewhere. They are the same people originally. It is only an matter of definition. Read my posts, I have sources in all of my claims.

ok, so if syrians were arab why they spoke aramaic? If akkadians were arab why they didn't speak arabic but another semitic language called akkadian. also dna has shown that highest j concentration is in yemen, see this map.



This map shows the highest concentration of j haplogroup in yemen with 80%, look at the map, iraqi desert which is anbar province has 50% j haplogroup while eastern iraq (babylon, messopotamia) is 30% J haplogroup. This clearly goes with historical facts that original arabs are from yemen.

Qahtanite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adnan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About Iranians. No, they never domintaed Arab countries I don't know where you have heard that. The most important Islamic scholars were Arabs. Al-Hanafi was not Persian my friend. Also most of todays persians have Arab blood in them. And all their Sayyids are originally Arabs.

And before Sassanids Semitic peoples of Iraq (Babylonia, Mesopotamia) had ruled Iran for over 1500 years. Many old Babylonian and Mesopotamian ancient reamins are found in todays Iran. Also don't forget the Abbasid dynasty.

here is a map of sassanian empire. it covers most of arab world except hijaz and central arabian desert.



Acheminid persian empire before Sassanian empire



Babylonians didn't rule Iran, only a small part near susa, modern khuzestan, but those people are already semitic so it makes no difference. Abbasid's khalifat were only rulers in name. khorasan was mainly controlled by samanids and then safarids. Abu muslim al khorasani was the one brought abasid to power by defeating ummayads.

Imam Abu Hanif's father was from kabul, Afghanistan. Abu Hanifa was born in kufa. His father was of persian descent.

His father, Thabit bin Zuta, a trader from Kabul, Afghanistan. His ancestry is generally accepted as being of non-Arab origin as suggested by the etymology of the names of his grandfather (Zuta) and great-grandfather (Mah). The historian, Al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, records a statement from Imām Abū Ḥanīfah's grandson, Ismail bin Hammad, who gave Abū Ḥanīfah's lineage as Thabit bin Numan bin Marzban and claiming to be of Persian origin.

Ab
any ways we have derailed this thread enough.

Are you saying that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was not an Arab? He was my friend.

I never said he wasn't arab but i said he was not an original arab. his ancestors, ismael (as) came from somewhere around modern isreal and hajira (as) from egypt.

ismael (as) came to macca as a refugee, haven't you heard of the story of zamzam?

[Karachi]

Seriously now I feel sad for you. What more do you want as a prove than your own words, the link to the thread where I have citations of what you are saying and an link to the original thread? Also read the comments of other users who share just the same opinion of you as I do. That you are an fool. From Bengali-Tiger to Admin-Khan.

But I guess we are all liars as you claim. You are confused and a schizhoprenic liar. You even tried to say that you had not seen the thread but you forgot that you had written in it.

I am starting to fell sorry for you. Again, do not write to me. I never comemnt your stupid posts unless you write to me. Again this time you started an discussion with me, Indian. Go away. I don't need your stupidty.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


.

I feel sorry for you blind al arab. you are nothing but liar yourself. lol even the stuff you are qouting is totally different from what you are accusing me off. only a total stupid idiot would do such a thing