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What does Pakistan want in Afghanistan?

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  • What does Pakistan want in Afghanistan?


    ^Writer


    Since April, 1978, when the Saur Revolution brought down President Daud’s regime, Afghans have been at war against the local communists, against invading Soviet forces and then, against each other. This last power struggle caused greater material losses than the decade-long Soviet occupation. Taliban rule was a continuation of the same strife. The internecine war and then the Taliban ascendancy both had ethnic overtones — massacres of Hazaras by the Tajiks and then the Taliban, the killing of Uzbeks and then the slaughter of the Taliban in Mazar Sharif.
    Pakistan was seen as the root of all of Afghanistan’s problems by the Northern Alliance. Ahmad Shah Masood masterminded the attack on our embassy in September 1995, in retaliation for the assistance that Pakistan had allegedly rendered to the Taliban in conquering Herat.
    In fact, Pakistan recognised the danger of continued ethnic strife, its impact on our tribal areas and on our domestic polity. (In August, 2001, just a month before 9/11, Deputy Secretary of State Armitage talked of a new relationship with Pakistan based on preventing the ‘Talibanisation of Pakistan’.) In 1992, we tried to get the Mujahideen parties to agree to a power sharing arrangement pending elections. This effort was frustrated partly by the personal ambitions of the Mujahideen leaders and partly because the right ethnic balance could not be struck — the Iranians stressed that 30 per cent of the posts should go to the Shias even while the Hazaras, the principal Shia group in Afghanistan, represented no more than eight per cent of the population and Hikmatyar, our protégé, refused to accept even temporarily a lead role for Rabbani’s Tajik Jamaat-e-Islami.
    In 1996, after the Taliban conquest of Kabul, we proposed a ceasefire, an exchange of prisoners and an eventual power sharing arrangement between the Taliban and the Northern Alliance. This foundered on the rocks of Taliban intransigence which owed in part to ideology, in part to their belief that the Pakistani effort was not backed by all power centres in Pakistan and in part to the conviction that outside powers supporting the Northern Alliance would sabotage good faith negotiations.
    When the Taliban ruled most of Afghanistan and were seen by the rest of the world as wholly dependent on Pakistan, we discovered the limits of the influence we could exercise. They dismissed any notion of formalising the Durand Line, claiming that “between the ummah there could be no borders”, rejected our pleas to spare the Bamiyan statues and perhaps, most importantly, refused to hand over Pakistani extremists such as Riaz Basra who had sought shelter in Afghanistan. After 9/11, they dismissed yet again our pleas that they should surrender Bin Laden and spare their country and ours the devastation that was otherwise bound to come from a vengeful US.
    After 9/11, Pashtuns in the north of the country became the victims of reprisal attacks by the Tajiks and Uzbeks. At the Bonn conference, the Pashtuns were politically marginalised in a country in which, contrary to currently accepted figures, they were a majority and not just a plurality. This gave the Taliban the chance to rebuild a base of support based not on their rigid and alien ideology but on their self-assigned role of being the flag-bearers of Pashtun nationalism. Yet at no time during the 33-years of strife did any Afghan leader ever suggest that Afghanistan be split into two or more parts.
    This necessarily selective recollection of Afghanistan’s political history has lessons to offer for determining what Pakistan can and should want in Afghanistan. First and perhaps most important, no Afghan leader is prepared to endorse or countenance the break-up of the country on ethnic lines but the days of Pashtun let alone Taliban domination cannot be resurrected. Second, a power-sharing arrangement will come only when the Afghans can sit together and be sure that there will be no external interference. Third, no Taliban or other Pashtun leader will easily give ground on the irredentist claims against Pakistan. The Taliban limit their ambitions to Afghanistan but their definition of Afghanistan includes large parts of Pakistan. Fourth a dominant Taliban presence on our borders will be an ideological threat. Today we may believe there is a distance between the TTP and the Afghan Taliban. We may be right in suggesting that the TTP largely comprises criminal elements and derives support from inimical external agencies. But let us not forget that most of them proudly proclaim their sworn loyalty to Mullah Omar and profess to want the imposition of the same Taliban ideology in Pakistan.
    Published in The Express Tribune, December 28th, 2011.
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

  • #2
    this guy also has a couple of articles entitled 'pakistan and afghanistan reconciliation' in the same paper.

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    • #3
      He makes it like Pakistan goverment is "the good guy" in here. But the main problem is Pakistan, desruction of Pakistan means peace and prosperity to Afghanistan, thats the only solution.

      Comment


      • #4
        How are we going to live in peace with a country that has spent 40 years supporting the overthrow of every government besides the Taliban.

        Nobody is as crafty, smart and cunning as the Pakistanis. They don the clean shaven face but preach Global Khalifat behind closed doors to Afghans.

        How the hell can the Taliban be the flag bearers of Pashtun Nationalism for heavens sake!

        Taliban oppose Pashtun Nationalism, their ideology is only "Islamic" and thier idols are from "Arabia" not "Pashtunistan".

        Pakistanis keep bringing up this subject of how they treated and saved Afghanistan from the Soviets.


        Let me remind them of two important points to refute that assumption

        1)Pakistan and America brought the Soviets in by starving Afghanistan and supporting/brainwashing the rural areas into revolt, the same they sent Shami Pir and Kala Khan to overthrow progressive Afghan governments.

        2)Pakistan choose who could get the aid and who cant, they were regarded as Ration parties according to Dr Marwat who wrote the book from Mojjahir to Mujahid, also Pakistan refused to support and has denied visas to Secular Afghan supporters, with Col Imam working to prevent a Durrani Secular Leadership from being established.


        Pakistan is a cancer!

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        • #5
          soldat where is your home, where are you living? west, pk, or afg?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by torkham View Post
            soldat where is your home, where are you living? west, pk, or afg?
            [---EDITED---] I lived most of my life in DI Khan Khyber Pakhtunkhwa but currently live in the UK, does that mean my points are invalid because I live in a modern developed country [---EDITED---]
            Sorry for my abstruct humor.
            Last edited by tor_khan; 12-30-2011, 10:07 AM. Reason: Tidied up

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Khostai View Post
              He makes it like Pakistan goverment is "the good guy" in here. But the main problem is Pakistan, desruction of Pakistan means peace and prosperity to Afghanistan, thats the only solution.
              The ''destruction'' of Pakistans would be a destruction of Pashtuns on both sides and would means a mass exodus. It would also harm Afghanistan as generell. And the next day, Panjabis, Sindhis, Balochs will flood Afghanistan and the region up to Kyrgisia. Pakistan will never leave a part of the country to fell apart, nor will the Pashtuns there accept such a direction. Majority of Pashtuns are very loyal to Pakistan and those who aren´t still don´t think about any unification, only about beeing independent. That´s all. The unification dream (as long Pakistan exists and Afghanistan is not a homogenous state) will never come true and is only promoted (just speechs) in Afghanistan by Pashtun nationalists.

              @Soldat Amir
              The Taliban are Pashtun nationalists, but they have not the capability and the brain or the education to see that Pashtun nationalism is used by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia against Afghanistan by supporting Pashtuns against non-Pashtuns, supporting mass genocides on Hazaras and Uzbeks. The ''islamic'' part is just a tool to call more confused and to islam unrelated wannabe Jihadis. It´s a fact that in Afghanistan non-Pashtuns are the strongest enemies of Pakistan and the Saudis. That´s another hypocrisy of Taliban and Talibanism 1. beeing natioanlists which is forbidden in Islam, 2. politizing Islam, 3. missusing Islam and propagating falsehood of their own to the mass, 4. killing Muslims, 5. beeing savages and barbars (also sins)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Soldat_Amir View Post
                [---EDITED---] I lived most of my life in DI Khan Khyber Pakhtunkhwa but currently live in the UK, does that mean my points are invalid because I live in a modern developed country [---EDITED---]
                Sorry for my abstruct humor.
                soldat you are passionate about your views about afghans - i was thinking how do you reconcile your views living in pakistan (or UK for that matter, you must meet many hardcore paksitanis).

                'abstruct humor' -

                still waiting for the pashto video.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NokiaWnW View Post
                  The ''destruction'' of Pakistans would be a destruction of Pashtuns on both sides and would means a mass exodus. It would also harm Afghanistan as generell. And the next day, Panjabis, Sindhis, Balochs will flood Afghanistan and the region up to Kyrgisia. Pakistan will never leave a part of the country to fell apart, nor will the Pashtuns there accept such a direction. Majority of Pashtuns are very loyal to Pakistan and those who aren´t still don´t think about any unification, only about beeing independent. That´s all. The unification dream (as long Pakistan exists and Afghanistan is not a homogenous state) will never come true and is only promoted (just speechs) in Afghanistan by Pashtun nationalists.

                  @Soldat Amir
                  The Taliban are Pashtun nationalists, but they have not the capability and the brain or the education to see that Pashtun nationalism is used by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia against Afghanistan by supporting Pashtuns against non-Pashtuns, supporting mass genocides on Hazaras and Uzbeks. The ''islamic'' part is just a tool to call more confused and to islam unrelated wannabe Jihadis. It´s a fact that in Afghanistan non-Pashtuns are the strongest enemies of Pakistan and the Saudis. That´s another hypocrisy of Taliban and Talibanism 1. beeing natioanlists which is forbidden in Islam, 2. politizing Islam, 3. missusing Islam and propagating falsehood of their own to the mass, 4. killing Muslims, 5. beeing savages and barbars (also sins)
                  I am sorry, I meant not destruction in the sence of bombing the whole country but I meant the end of the country by spliting it up in difrent regions. The pashtun regions can choose ether making an independen country or joining Afghanistan. I mean that.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                    I am sorry, I meant not destruction in the sence of bombing the whole country but I meant the end of the country by spliting it up in difrent regions. The pashtun regions can choose ether making an independen country or joining Afghanistan. I mean that.
                    Pakistan is a nuclear power. Before any inch of it´s territory get incooperated by Afghanistan, it will kill all of us. A unification with Afghanistan is not easy and you can assume that non-Pashtuns will resist and do not allow such actions. We cry Panjabis dominate Pakistan but want to do the same in Afghanistan. We cry that Pakistan is a central governed country where Panjabis have all controls but the same system we want to impose in Afghanistan and push non-Pashtuns in the same role Pashtuns have it in Pakistan. Do you smell coffee? I don´t believe that Pakistan will break up. Why? Because they have all a common identity. Afghanistan in return has not such a thing. As I mentioned earlier, majority of Pashtuns of Pakistan are loyal to Pakistan and would bomb Afghanistan to hell. All those ISI generals who destroyed Afghanistan were mainly Pashtuns. Can you deny that? The people of FATA are not interested on Afghanistan. On the one hand they want to be an independent ''state'' and on the other hand have influence in Islamabad and Pakistan... a honourable demand but with an unlogical policy. Don´t you know when Pakistani Pashtun soldiers came to Afghanistan to Kandahar, Khost, Gardez, Kunduz and Mazar? Why were they there? Because fighting for Pakistan, not for Pashtuns or for Afghanistan.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NokiaWnW View Post
                      Pakistan is a nuclear power. Before any inch of it´s territory get incooperated by Afghanistan, it will kill all of us. A unification with Afghanistan is not easy and you can assume that non-Pashtuns will resist and do not allow such actions. We cry Panjabis dominate Pakistan but want to do the same in Afghanistan. We cry that Pakistan is a central governed country where Panjabis have all controls but the same system we want to impose in Afghanistan and push non-Pashtuns in the same role Pashtuns have it in Pakistan. Do you smell coffee? I don´t believe that Pakistan will break up. Why? Because they have all a common identity. Afghanistan in return has not such a thing. As I mentioned earlier, majority of Pashtuns of Pakistan are loyal to Pakistan and would bomb Afghanistan to hell. All those ISI generals who destroyed Afghanistan were mainly Pashtuns. Can you deny that? The people of FATA are not interested on Afghanistan. On the one hand they want to be an independent ''state'' and on the other hand have influence in Islamabad and Pakistan... a honourable demand but with an unlogical policy. Don´t you know when Pakistani Pashtun soldiers came to Afghanistan to Kandahar, Khost, Gardez, Kunduz and Mazar? Why were they there? Because fighting for Pakistan, not for Pashtuns or for Afghanistan.
                      This post carries some weight. Those who want to unite Pashtuns by destroying Pakistan will never be able to do that unless Afghanistan becomes millitarily and financially stable country and there is a proper system, a proper infrastructure for running the whole system.
                      I would recommend the Afghans to first concentrate on the stability of Afghanistan, kick the outsiders out of Afghanistan, minimize the influence of non Pashtuns in Afghanistan.
                      After achieving all these goals, start thinking about uniting Pashtuns on the both sides. I will be the first to join hands with you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^Oke so we must do all the work, no helping hands from your sides huh?
                        I think if Afghanistan stabalise and safe, I think they would not want to join Pak Pashtuns...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by emkhan View Post
                          This post carries some weight. Those who want to unite Pashtuns by destroying Pakistan will never be able to do that unless Afghanistan becomes millitarily and financially stable country and there is a proper system, a proper infrastructure for running the whole system.
                          I would recommend the Afghans to first concentrate on the stability of Afghanistan, kick the outsiders out of Afghanistan, minimize the influence of non Pashtuns in Afghanistan.
                          After achieving all these goals, start thinking about uniting Pashtuns on the both sides. I will be the first to join hands with you.
                          You can not minimize the influence of non-Pashtuns in their own country that they lived in for hundred of years, if not thousand of years. The non-Pashtuns are not weak as always propagated by some clowns here. In fact, the most dangerous group that could topple alone entire Afghanistan would be the Tajiks, political and cultural our worsest enemy. Culturally and historical, they are superiour to us. People of different background came and gone and always were absorbed or influenced by the non-Pashtuns. I do not need to mention that their language and culture became the court language and identity of Turks, Arabs, Mongols, northern-Indians, many Kashmiris and of every dynasty, from Turkey to Bengal. Alone the try of minimizing and marginalising them would led to a new bloody civil war. We can just live side by side peacefully with them and learn from them. Otherwise, I don´t see any bright future for Pashtuns in and outside of Afghanistan. Maybe you do not know it because the history of Afghanistan and Pashtuns in general is strongly centralized on the Durand Agreement. Not the British did caused the partition of eastern-Pashtun lands, but the Persian Qizilbashs who were declared by Abdurrahman Khan as enemy. When he drove many hundred thousands out of Kandahar, Uruzgan, Ghazni and other regions, many fled to Pakistan and sided with the british Empire. Backed by the Tajiks of Kohistan, whose tribal elders were very close to the Amir and represented ca. 200 000 Kohistanis, they all united themself against Abdurrahman and forced him to sign the agreement. The british just took advantage of that short-coming between non-Pashtuns and them. Abdurrahman was just a tool. They once betrayed and ''secured'' Afghanistan from becoming a solely Pashtun state and they will do it in future, too. And their influence do not decrease but from day to day their influence reach new levels. Just follow the current situation or the situation of the last two years. The only people who will suffer from further provokations and a Paki-led Pashtun nationalism will be Pashtuns and again NATO and US will come under a new mandant to fight ''terrorism''. We do no more live under a monarchist who pay the elders, saints, Khans, Khwajas and pirs to control the minds of the people, specially of non-Pashtuns. We all have to learn to live with eachother, no matter who speaks what kind of language or who belong to which islamic school. I just read on Pajwok.com that in the entire Pashtun dominated east, there are only 28000 literate people... out of at least 3million. Now deal with that!

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                          • #14
                            I would pay very little heed to what the author has to say. Like most other people who write for this rag (the Express Tribune), Mr. Shaikh is an ISI mouth-piece. He used to be a director at the ISS, as is Shireen Mazari (Imran Khans foreign policy adviser). He became Ambassador to the US under GIK (Ghulam Ishaq Khan), and was appointed Foreign Sec'y during bhuttos second government upon the army's insistence.

                            His brother was an Air Marshal in the pak air force, who'd served in intelligence as well. His brother-along with 4 other officers-was superseded by a colleague who was handpicked by Musharraf to become Air Chief. The Air Chief died in a plane crash mysteriously, after having allegations leveled against him, for brokering a deal between AQ and the ISI(They haven't been proven).

                            Also, I'd like to ask Mr. Shaikh, wasn't Basra a member of the SSP; later founding the LJ (Two groups with known ISI links)? Did Basra become a criminal before or after he participated with the Mujahideen against the Soviets? Third, where do you think Omar is?

                            He has the events down, but he's trying to divert blame from the pakistanis with comments such as "inimical external agencies". So, you're telling me the Bajaur bombings and NW invasions had nothing to do with their formation? I like how he accuses iran and the hazaras of squandering negotiations, and tries to make it seem as if the Taliban gave priority to wanting to reunite Pashtuns.

                            Had that been the case wouldn't groups like the TTP, AuI, LI,etc. sprung up well before they did? Or then why would the Taliban take advice from the ISI, who sent officers and personnel all over the map to aid in the conflicts against their rivals-in places he mentions, such as Herat?


                            It is known fact the ISI and Massoud-along with his NA-had/have mutual hatred for one another. The ISI is even accused of playing a role in taking him out (do not know if that's true). To suggest that somehow the pakistan government wished to play the role of peacemaker (which is essentially what the author is saying) in Afghanistan is absolutely absurd. They had their own agenda to forward there, and they kept at it uninhibited until the Americans arrived. If they really wanted peace negotiations, they would have taken Lakhdar Brahimis and other UN special envoys's advice, and not recognized the government and aided/requested UN humanitarian intervention long before things got out of hand.

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                            • #15
                              Omar, Gulbuddin and the rest of the thugish terrorist are such coward creatures that noone take them serious. I doubt that the blind ''Amir'' exists. In my opinion he is played by either one or many ISI agents. Even his so-called ''close ministres'' have never seen him. How comes? Where is he? Why other people do not fear death and risk their life day by day and accept or even welcome death but these creatures hide themself (Wali Karzai, Lal Mohammad Jan, Gn. Daud, Turyalai Wesa...). I smell US-Paki conspiracy. And if you type on google mullah omar you get at least 7 persons who have the same clothes but looks different from eachother, except their unwashed beards. Mullah Omar is just a myth, a fake, created to fool people and serve US-Pak interests.... and now see how some hypocrite monkies who live in secured West will jump up and down :D

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