questions for pashtuns

[din]

Salam wrona oh khundo

I have some questions


i am from kandahar. and i was born in kandahar and i have seen it all. i have seen those burn the schools and most of them are now government leaders. we know who burned schools in provinces of afghanistan. we have to defend education and our country.

why are you automatically tagging every afghan who defending his country on ISI? i agree that some ppl might be from agents of isi or raw. but do not tag everyone with isi. we have brave afghans that will not accept rule of foreigners. this is the policy of afghans before pakistan.

what will you do


1)if some invader conquers your country what will you do?
2)if someone randomly enters your house what will you do?
3)who started burning schools?
4)if someone foreigner does very bad violence like killing stabbing 10 year old of your country what will you do?
5)if someone does this to your country what will you do? what if they do to your province? what if your village? what if your home? what if your sister or wife?

will you not defend yourself? many afghans are victims. they don't know isi or america they are just defending themselves. taso da raw ya isi laqab tolo ta warkawey.


i did not type the above i made my family type.

[din]

da pashto yaw matal dei

mzaka hagha swazi che or pa baal wey.

[din]

moz khpala pa koor ki aram nast yo oh pa hagha khalgo ch khpal da kor defa ka ye hagha da isi laqab warkawo. sharam khabar da.manana.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Salam wrona oh khundo

I have some questions


i am from kandahar. and i was born in kandahar and i have seen it all. i have seen those burn the schools and most of them are now government leaders. we know who burned schools in provinces of afghanistan. we have to defend education and our country.

why are you automatically tagging every afghan who defending his country on ISI? i agree that some ppl might be from agents of isi or raw. but do not tag everyone with isi. we have brave afghans that will not accept rule of foreigners. this is the policy of afghans before pakistan.

what will you do


1)if some invader conquers your country what will you do?
2)if someone randomly enters your house what will you do?
3)who started burning schools?
4)if someone foreigner does very bad violence like killing stabbing 10 year old of your country what will you do?
5)if someone does this to your country what will you do? what if they do to your province? what if your village? what if your home? what if your sister or wife?

will you not defend yourself? many afghans are victims. they don't know isi or america they are just defending themselves. taso da raw ya isi laqab tolo ta warkawey.


i did not type the above i made my family type.

Graan Mashr,

We are not as smart as you and we involved ourselves in these stupid discussions about these issues with people who have agendas.

You are 100% correct and this issue.

The answer to your question graan mashr is that people have different agendas. They use these terms to ignore history and ignore facts, or at least to manipulate them towards their comfort zone.

They choose to overlook obvious history and tilt it toward where their ideologies are.

So what they really want is to impose different ideologies, whatever they may be, on the Afghan people. They construct an alternate reality and in this reality, Najibullah is a hero in their mind, who fought for Pashtun freedom. Just as they accuse Islamists of brushing crimes under rugs, Najibs murders with his own two hands are brushed under the rug because his agenda aligned with theirs, nothing more and nothing less.

In this alternate reality, Pakistan is some sort of evil super power that controls all minds, all hearts, and all bodies... yet they also at the same time contradict themselves and call the Pakistani fauj incompetent and idiotic and backwards and without any organization and power. How they reconcile these two contradictory schizophrenic approaches is beyond us.

These people have multiple agendas

Karzai and his supporters here pertend they want to modernize Afghanistan and civilize it... but their actions show they only seek self aggrandizement . They know that they do not represent the hearts and minds. Their concern is to be in control, but they have to say these things about why their policies are failed ones because they know that they were not brave for their people and did not lead them when they were being killed.

The secular atheists, graan mashr, even take Esmaat Muslim and make him a hero. So what can you expect from these people? They cannot even provide an iota of proof for their assertions. And when they are confronted with incontrovertable proof to the contrary they cry foul and somehow deride the sources about these people as "western" even though Human Rights Watch and all these sources spoke to Afghans on the ground.

Most of these people are truly failures in the West in all senses. So they have to compensate and blame their problems on others. This is called an inferiority complex Graan Mashr.

They are programmed like computers to have missionary style responses.

For instance, they will ask you why you are in country X when your religious ideologies are under attack by country X. Yet their pseudo ideologies (secular democratic systems) were previously secular communism. And still, they choose to stay in these capitalistic strong holds instead of visiting the outer regions of China and staying in the rural areas or to North Korea.

Basically Graan Mashr, these are people who are ashamed of how little they did in this life and how they preach education for the masses but are the lowest in intelligence amongst us.

They confuse fighting for freedom, even if its from their hegemony, with automatic support for Pakistan.

[din]

salam.

barakzai doctor dera manana. i am agree with u 100%. you are right. you are respectful person in pf. i respect you all time and your opinion. za der ihtaram kawam. i am same opinion as you. i am 100% agree with you.

we can't ignore them we have to give them answer. they are low intelligence but we have to give them answer in the pf so they change. i hope you do that. sorry my english. manna. salam.

[Zmarak]

Barakzai may be the most intelligent active poster here. I doubt that you will receive any better, more honest, detailed response than his.
The truth is, the people here who accuse those of us who oppose foreign occupation of being ISI agents, etc. are people who are controlled by political/social agendas. Their minds are so deeply buried in man made ideologies that they are truly incapable of identifying the truth. In their world, everyone and everything is either an ally or enemy and should be treated accordingly. I feel sorry for these people and believe many of them to be genuine victims of propaganda.

[din]

zma zra dard ka ye che zmoz ghairatman pashtun da malk defence ka ye oh mozh da punjab isi laqab warkawo. hagha da ISI ya punjabi spellign la naswai kala oh moz dagha sey kharabey pa ko. da der da sharam khavara da. they are som ppl who have not seen pak or iran and they defend country and we call them isi. afsoos afsoos.

and i am agree that one or two ppl might be isi but not all. thats wrong

[BarakzaiAbdali]

salam.

barakzai doctor dera manana. i am agree with u 100%. you are right. you are respectful person in pf. i respect you all time and your opinion. za der ihtaram kawam. i am same opinion as you. i am 100% agree with you.

we can't ignore them we have to give them answer. they are low intelligence but we have to give them answer in the pf so they change. i hope you do that. sorry my english. manna. salam.

Graan Mashr

Deera manena, and trust me these people are programmed. I am glad I actually witnessed this first hand. Bring them the whole world and everything in it with every sort of evidence and they will still defy reality.

Your izaat is too much and they will waste that and the the God given space of your inquisitive brain cells.

Think Graan Mashr, even their own ideologies conflict. They claim they want to make Afghanistan into a G8 Nation but have no idea and ignore how those nations became G8 nations. They did not become G8 with foreign bases on their soil. Even Germany was a power before its destruction if they try to tout this.

They have not read a single page of American history, Roman history, Greek history, or any civilizations history to see how occupied people never become G8 nations.

This is because that sort of thinking doesnt fit into their plan and their worldview they know that the Afghan people do not want on them.

[unknownprince]

Din lala,

Lets take an example here.

The ISI has been supporting the US war and occupation of Afghanistan, even had a T wing that supported intelligence sharing with the US.

This is one of the main reasons the Taliban faction of TTP came into being. The Maseeds objected to Pakistan support for the US war and occupation of Afghanistan, and this the single reason they declared war on the Pakistani state and Army, and ISI.

Now, there are some of these people (who have an agenda) that like to say Imran Khan is an ISI agent. Well, here is some news. Imran Khan has opposed the US war and occupation for the last 7 years, ever since his name has been buzzing around. Imran Khan opposed Musharraf for supporting the US war and occupation of Afghanistan, and for having the Pakistan Army go to war against Waziristan and in Swat. A further emphasis of his principles would be the simple FACT that Imran Khan rejected the Prime Minister position under Musharaf due to his opposition to Pakistan's alliance with the US in their war against Afghanistan. Now, at the time, Musharraf had a hold over the ISI and Pakistan Army. How was Imran an ISI agent then? Does it make any sense?

Despite this, you have these people (secular elite in Pakistan, and these secular types in the west) continue to insist that Imran Khan is an ISI agent simply because he is opposed to Pakistan's support for the US war and occupation of Afghanistan. Hold on, does that even make sense?


Furthermore, I use Imran Khan as an example for a reason. Imran Khan has recently demanded that ALL bases used by the US forces be closed down. The Pakistan Army and ISI seem to have allowed the US to use over 4 bases. Imran Khan is demanding that these bases be closed. He is putting the Pakistan government and Army on the spot. His positions resonate with the people. He is no ones stooge.


Din lala,

Tying back to your question though.

They still call Imran Khan an ISI agent simply because he plans to end Pakistan's support (military support) for the US war in Afghanistan. What they are then suggesting is that the Pakistan Army or ISI does not have control over some affairs and that the current support for the US war and occupation of Afghanistan (supply routes and air bases) is an independent one which the Army and ISI have no choice but to accept. Are you understanding the delusion here? Everyone knows that the Pakistan Army and ISI, whether willing or unwilling, has been supporting the US war and occupation of Afghanistan. They have been doing this out of a choice which was made by Musharraf.

ISI General Mahmood resigned in protest after Pakistan formed an alliance with the US in their war against Afghanistan. It appears Mullah Zaeef's words did effect him severely.


So, there you have it. They will attach terms like "Paki" "ISI" to deny the legitimate rights of Afghan opposition to foreign occupation. They will continue to term Afghan "insurgency" terrorism just as Karzai does. The fact is insurgency is not accurate since it implies that there is a legal government in Kabul. The illegal government in Kabul backed by the US presence will continue to be illegal. Hence, insurgency is not the term to us. According to UN charters (one of the Articles of the UN charter) it is an opposition to an illegal government and occupation.


Another ironic fact is is that they supported the Pakistan war in Wazirstan and Swat, that makes them Pakistani and ISI agents.

They also support (supported) Pakistan support for the US war and occupation, and are only opposed to Pakistan for not being enough of a slave to the US.

These people want Pakistan Army to have a full scale war in Waziristan at the request of the US.

So, does it make any sense?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

zma zra dard ka ye che zmoz ghairatman pashtun da malk defence ka ye oh mozh da punjab isi laqab warkawo. hagha da ISI ya punjabi spellign la naswai kala oh moz dagha sey kharabey pa ko. da der da sharam khavara da. they are som ppl who have not seen pak or iran and they defend country and we call them isi. afsoos afsoos.

and i am agree that one or two ppl might be isi but not all. thats wrong

Beh pikraa aosaay graan mashr, da duoy (ghazi) ghamoona, au da beh aqlaa insaanyaan da kholaay dardoona, pa zargaay bandaay ma rawalay. Khodaay- zamonzh Allah- pa arsh bandaa nast deh, zamonsh da yaqeen dhey che khoday yaw dhey; au ka Aghee (Allah) zamonsh dha loy hiwaad nangyalaan bandaay janaat au barakaat leka da baraan ghundaay rawaraay, da zyaataa sha aw behtar da zamonsh insaanyaan the kholaay khozh khabaraay na. Che hartsomra duoy orak sawaay khalaq baad waay naw dahgumra da shaheedan takhthoon asmaan tha rasee!

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

The Talib resistance to foreigners is in line with Afghan/Pashtun tradition, it is not a new phenomenon but rather a modern reincarnation of the old Ghazi resistances to foreigners

However we must also acknowledge that the insurgency is co opted and manipulated by Pakistan, and I would even say America

[Michin Khel]

Its simple. The Afghan resistance in the form of talibans against invading forces is natural, afghans have always resisted foriegn invading forces.....The commanders and leaders of resistance are talibans.
Islamic elements in ISI were unhappy with musharaf's decision of betraying talibans and helping US...They secretly made contacts with small pockets of afghan resistance and through haqqani group organization was provided to them...before involvement of ISI, hundreds of talibans were getting killed without killing a single US soldier...With help from ISI, their efficiency increased. After musharaf now its official policy of ISI to secretly provide help to afghan talibans. Now what kind of help is ISI providing? . ISI and IB (another intelligence agency of pakistan) recruit pashtuns from pakhtunkhwa through their mullahs and make it sure that they reach to their destination in afghanistan without any trouble. They also target NATO supply tankers. Ofcourse they dont supply them with weaponry that is used by pak army... ISI had provided help to sikh rebels in similar fashion during khalistan movement...Dear mighty afghans dont be ashamed of getting help from daalkhors, togather we will bring down US.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Its simple. The Afghan resistance in the form of talibans against invading forces is natural, afghans have always resisted foriegn invading forces.....The commanders and leaders of resistance are talibans.
Islamic elements in ISI were unhappy with musharaf's decision of betraying talibans and helping US...They secretly made contacts with small pockets of afghan resistance and through haqqani group organization was provided to them...before involvement of ISI, hundreds of talibans were getting killed without killing a single US soldier...With help from ISI, their efficiency increased. After musharaf now its official policy of ISI to secretly provide help to afghan talibans. Now what kind of help is ISI providing? . ISI and IB (another intelligence agency of pakistan) recruit pashtuns from pakhtunkhwa through their mullahs and make it sure that they reach to their destination in afghanistan without any trouble. They also target NATO supply tankers. Ofcourse they dont supply them with weaponry that is used by pak army... ISI had provided help to sikh rebels in similar fashion during khalistan movement...Dear mighty afghans dont be ashamed of getting help from daalkhors, togather we will bring down US.

i dont know wrora...i have a hard time trying to get an understanding on pakistan motives...are you really telling me that, one man (mush) was the determining factor in isi policies what i mean is...within the isi and pakistani establishment, is one man important enough to determine policies? i doubt it i think this theory is just used to blame it on musharaf as opposed to the truth which is that this was always official policy

[Soldat_Amir]

The Talib resistance to foreigners is in line with Afghan/Pashtun tradition, it is not a new phenomenon but rather a modern reincarnation of the old Ghazi resistances to foreigners

However we must also acknowledge that the insurgency is co opted and manipulated by Pakistan, and I would even say America

Our ancestors fought with their blood, sweat and tears, they did not kidnap young boys and indoctrinate them to become "fidayeens" for 72 virgins.

Our ancestors were honorable dignified men not the types you see now a days with their begging bowl.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Our ancestors fought with their blood, sweat and tears, they did not kidnap young boys and indoctrinate them to become "fidayeens" for 72 virgins.

Our ancestors were honorable dignified men not the types you see now a days with their begging bowl.

yes, but the ghazis who fought the british did not experience what we did in the last 30 years

my dear soldat, never never never under estimate what the 30 yrs did to us as a people