The US AND PAKISTAN dirty war on pashtun/afghan soil

[gadoonwal]

first of all
da pakistan pa kurso(choko) nast ghat ghat maran dey
da landamaran dey ma warza nezday
But this can also be used for the present karzai govt cus like pakistan his govt also serve the interest of west and not afghan.

Everyday pashtuns are killed like un-wanted animals in southren afghanistan and parts of pashtunkhwa watan and the ISI-CIA joint game now targeted the shai-muslims to start another war between poor afghans in the name of religion.
I hope afghans and pashtuns fully aware of this another dirty game of CIA AND ISI.

The corrupt and evil pakistani authorities helping and providing every source to the west to spread violence through ,,isi,,agents in afghanistan and pashtunland of east of durand.
The recent killing of punjabi soldiers on the pak-afg border was great news for paki authority to ask for more dollars.
A loyal slave like pakistan can not even think of fighting against US.
Pakistan without US aid can not even feed ,,daal,,to its army men.
It is all drama by punjabi authorities .
let me write that pashtu example of khan and nawkar,,,
1 saray kor ki nast woo merman warta owail sariya 4 di bachi dey dwa monga khan ta de woo waya chi zamong padi tankhwa (paiso) guzara na kagi pakar da chi tankhwa darta zyata key.
saray der kaharjan sho aw da khan hujray ta laro khan pa khpala hujra ki naast woo de sari (nawkar) pre salam wacholo aw warta owail khan zama padi tankhwa guzara na kagi da tankhwa rata sewa/dera ka kani nu?
khan warta owail ka na e nu sa?
wail khan pa hum dagay tankhwa ba guzara kawoom...
So more and more pashtuns will be killed in the name of this dirty war.
pakistan a westren creation is there to help the west by killing more afghans and pashtuns which will not just serve the interest of west but also the interest of pakistan to extend its boundries to the west in the future.
poor pashtuns of both side of durand will blame eachother and others the world will continue their laugh on us.

This is their agenda ,,ttp,,and other evils are there tools to kill us.

Think deep who is blowing himself for the good of pakistan and others?
These sucide bombers are not tajiks or punjabis but our pashtuns.They include pashtuns from both side not just one.
Ofcourse the orders and support coming from GHQ and other agencies but why they are doing this.
If afghanistan become a peacefull country today from north to south the whole nation wil ask the US to get out of their land but there are more then one players busy working fror their own agendas.
US want to stay in the region for its stratigic interests.
pakistan wants to occupy the whole of afghanistan so its westren border will not be used by india or anyone.
Their country will become stronger by invading aghanistan.The evil state of punjab will use holy islam.
India wants to get control of the main route of central asia passing through afghanistan.They also want to use afghan land against paksitan.India also taking full advantage of the situation.Iran wants to keep the west busy in afghanistan so they will never be able to attack them.
The arabs got their own agenda by using our land against west.
A rich land (pashtunkhwa and afghanistan) with poor people will ever see unity and peace?
waiting for that day,i hope ,,

[emkhan]

Nice... charta wey wrora... dera moda pas khkaara shwe.

[Admin Khan]

Pa khair Gadoonwala, I agree. Dirty game as usual.

[Karachi]

This is true, in the long term the only solution I see is for afghans to get more united and defend their country from outsiders, or else this "great game" that started almost 200 years ago will keep going on.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

the creation of Pakistan was the first nail in the Afghan coffin, every year that passes drives that nail further in

in 25 yrs, I dont see Afghanistan existing.

[Admin Khan]

in 25 yrs, I dont see Afghanistan existing.

How so?

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

How so?

The likelyhood of an Afghan state being united under a unified strong leadership is nil.

Afghanistan will splinter with the Pashtun areas being absorbed into Pakistan

Shamal will be an proctorate of Iran

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The likelyhood of an Afghan state being united under a unified strong leadership is nil.

Afghanistan will splinter with the Pashtun areas being absorbed into Pakistan

Shamal will be an proctorate of Iran

You dont see Pakistan destabilizing itself with the fact that it continues to fight the US's war for it? Its using the current 24 man death that occured on the durand line as a way to divest... but I think in a few weeks it will be back to business as usual.

I also think Admin has raised some good points in the past. Here in the US we are seeing an active belt tightening occuring economically. Everything from super committees to eliminating thousands of post offices in districts so that defense budgeting does not have to go by the wayside. The US is acting like an empire in its red sun phase... still very hot and bothered... but playing by its enemy's strategies.

I mean think about it... they have now killed about 80% of AQs top leadership, they have killed B Mehsud... every 3 months an article comes out about how such and such group is on its funeral pyre or death bed... and then it ends up being wrong.

Some of the links that Unknownprince posted to the discussions made by that former indian diplomat are rather astute about the US and its Afghan mission... but it just seems to me that the US will recede into bases in Afghanistan and control the skies.

I think this war in afghanistan may be a low intensity festering conflict for the next two decades or so.

I would assume Pakistan is most worried about some international event occuring that would make hitting it a true possibility. Hillary Clinton herself gave that grave warning to Pakistan back during the Shahzad fiasco.

I dont know I tend to look at the world through medical paradigms. A low level festering inflammation or ulcer in a diabetic can lead to sepsis an death. It diverts the bodies resources to the point of collapse if active and appropriate interventions are not taken.

The US is metaphorically much more like Great Britain was in its powerful phases. Its excuse was very much the same... patriotism, civilizing the people, etc. But eventually its red sun phase ended and it had to recede. It was wealthy and powerful enough to not suffer severely. The US may very well end doing a similar contraction.

But I think Pakistan is always teetering, hovering, flirting and dancing with some disaster.

[unknownprince]

[QUOTE]

You dont see Pakistan destabilizing itself with the fact that it continues to fight the US's war for it? Its using the current 24 man death that occured on the durand line as a way to divest... but I think in a few weeks it will be back to business as usual.

It is hard to say right now, but from the looks of it, the Zardari/Gilani government is over in Pakistan. Zardari will not return back to Pakistan because if he is found guilty of of the memogate scandal, he faces the death penalty, and all indications are people will not object to it. Who knows, but all indications for now point to a silent coup within Pakistan, and this will not serve US interests anymore at this point. While the army under Musharaf had gotten used to taking US aid, it is doubtful now that it will continue. They are taking advantage of the deaths of 24 soldiers, and I dont see their positions changing. The religious parties like JI are mobilizing for further rallies, demanding the overthrow of Zardai/Gilani government and the end to US ties. Rulers are enemies of country: JI | Business Recorder and then there is the clean shaven face of Imran Khan pushing forward a foreign policy of ending Pakistan support for the US war - reason he is termed Talib Khan. Importantly, though he has said he wants the US out of Afghanistan, and the region. He has been saying this for 7 years. It is not a way to get votes. It is not some act.

At the same time, the likelihood of a US-Pakistan war is very high. It is not a form of hysteria to realize this. I actually think there is going to be a regional war against Pakistan and Iran. Iran will probably be attacked first because they do not have nukes. Then Pakistan. China is probably going to start a war in the South China sea. They will not tolerate the US trying to control South China sea exploration, and it is in fact one of the first times when a sitting Chinese leader has explicitly told the Chinese Army to prepare for war. http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-n...-combat-24374/ World War III hysteria is not something to dismiss anymore.

I also think Admin has raised some good points in the past. Here in the US we are seeing an active belt tightening occuring economically. Everything from super committees to eliminating thousands of post offices in districts so that defense budgeting does not have to go by the wayside. The US is acting like an empire in its red sun phase... still very hot and bothered... but playing by its enemy's strategies.

I think the end of this economy is closer then it looks.

I mean think about it... they have now killed about 80% of AQs top leadership, they have killed B Mehsud... every 3 months an article comes out about how such and such group is on its funeral pyre or death bed... and then it ends up being wrong.

Some of the links that Unknownprince posted to the discussions made by that former indian diplomat are rather astute about the US and its Afghan mission... but it just seems to me that the US will recede into bases in Afghanistan and control the skies.

Russia is key to this, and have stated multiple times, they will not tolerate or accept US bases in Afghanistan. With US's recent refusal (just today) http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...xcO_story.html to talk with Russia about missile defense, Russia's blockade of the US supply lines from Russia is becoming increasingly likely now. It seems Russia always makes good on their threats (Georgia War in 2008) China has also recently welcomed further Pakistan Russia ties. International relations: Chinese scholar urges Pakistan, Russia to improve ties – The Express Tribune I think if there is further instigation, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, and China working together on the same positions is increasingly relevant. The US and Karzai are increasingly isolated in that region with only India clapping to their agenda. You are right to assume that Pakistan is divesting out of this war, but I think it is complete, and the reason is solely Imran Khan's pressure which resonates with what the people want. It is doubtful that things are going to return back to normal at this point anymore, especially, with the unraveling of the Memogate scandal, and Zardari's obvious departure from Pakistan.

I think this war in afghanistan may be a low intensity festering conflict for the next two decades or so.

I would assume Pakistan is most worried about some international event occuring that would make hitting it a true possibility. Hillary Clinton herself gave that grave warning to Pakistan back during the Shahzad fiasco.

US has repeatedly stated they want to have a full scale war in Pakistan aka the Waziristan area at first, but it would extend throughout. The attacks on the Pakistani posts before the end of November were deliberate and intended to draw an immediate retaliatory response from Pakistan. Im guessing once there was a response, there would be a huge reprisal back, a full scale war into the tribal areas at first, and then the rest of the country. My feeling is the idea would be to do this in a manner of days and then leave having some areas occupied with a destroyed army, and the nuclear weapons under foreign control. The picture of this conflict is bigger then it appears. The response Pakistan gave, a paused response in fact puts this whole war on a thread. With Russia's threat to cut the supply lines to the US looking likely, I doubt Pakistan will now turn back. No regional nation wants this war to go on any longer, as it the source of regional instability. The US presence is the source of this instability, and no one aside from Karzai and India is playing into this.


Another interesting and major result (from these Ashura attacks in Afghanistan) is that it appears increasingly likely that Mohaqiq, Dostum, and Masood's brother's National Front are opposed to plans to have an occupation past 2014. This is not something to be taken lightly , and his statements (below) yesterday were not directed at Pakistan. Mohaqiq, being a Shiite Hazara leader, is close to Iran in this respect. Here is the section from MK Bhadarkumar's article that should be read here.

"non-Pashtun groups who oppose President Hamid Karzai and are increasingly willing to reconcile with the Taliban. They include the "nationalistic" elements who recently formed the National Front - heavyweights like Ahmed Wali Massoud from Panjshir (brother of the slain former Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud), Uzbek leader Rashid Dostum and Hazara Shi'ite leader Haji Mohammed Mohaqiq. Any polarization on sectarian lines would bury their pan-Afghan agenda.

Mohaqiq, who is close to Tehran, called on Afghans to react "carefully and intelligently". He said the perpetrators "want to trigger a sectarian war in Afghanistan. My message to the Afghan nation is to recognize the real faces of the enemies of Afghanistan and to maintain civil order."

His remarks echoed the statement by Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi, who described the incidents on Tuesday as an attempt to fuel tribal and religious tensions and to create instability and insecurity in the regional countries. Salehi alleged that foreign countries are seeking to disturb peace and stability in the region by provoking sectarian and tribal conflict. "

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Their MO seems to be to tenderize the meat first. They do repetitive, punishing, unrelenting air strikes, naval sea directed strikes (e.g. Gulf war 1) for days, sometimes months. Basically they play with their new toys for as long as possible.

I would imagine that they would work with India, without any second regret, to invade Pakistan from both sides. After all, despite the fact that Ethiopans and Somalians hate eachother and the former are rabid Christians and the latter are war hardened Muslims... they continue to use Ethiopa as proxies in that secret war.

The other thing they might to do... and this is why I think Afghan Pashtuns who are calling for war on Pakistan are utterly out of touch with reality if they claim that they would get off on watching it and simulataneously claim that they are pro Pashtun.. is that they would hit FATA and the former NWFP the hardest. The Pashtun race would be smashed in that region and the refugee crises would enhance with the other regions of Pakistan being temporarily accomodating, but generally malignant long term. Southern Afghans are too poor and in survival mode to accomodate their brethren without problems happening in the short and long term. If the Shinwari tribal factions cannot even tolerate eachother, and kill eachother openly I dont care how much people say our hearts are large... stuff will occur.

The issue here is that Pakistan is nuclear and that is exactly why other nations are racing to get arms. They see the fall out of Iraq and the fact that the nations that really do not have arms get smacked right away and tenderized right away. The nations that do have arms or arms potential (North Korea) get reprieves.

[Michin Khel]

Their MO seems to be to tenderize the meat first. They do repetitive, punishing, unrelenting air strikes, naval sea directed strikes (e.g. Gulf war 1) for days, sometimes months. Basically they play with their new toys for as long as possible.

I would imagine that they would work with India, without any second regret, to invade Pakistan from both sides. After all, despite the fact that Ethiopans and Somalians hate eachother and the former are rabid Christians and the latter are war hardened Muslims... they continue to use Ethiopa as proxies in that secret war.

The other thing they might to do... and this is why I think Afghan Pashtuns who are calling for war on Pakistan are utterly out of touch with reality if they claim that they would get off on watching it and simulataneously claim that they are pro Pashtun.. is that they would hit FATA and the former NWFP the hardest. The Pashtun race would be smashed in that region and the refugee crises would enhance with the other regions of Pakistan being temporarily accomodating, but generally malignant long term. Southern Afghans are too poor and in survival mode to accomodate their brethren without problems happening in the short and long term. If the Shinwari tribal factions cannot even tolerate eachother, and kill eachother openly I dont care how much people say our hearts are large... stuff will occur.

The issue here is that Pakistan is nuclear and that is exactly why other nations are racing to get arms. They see the fall out of Iraq and the fact that the nations that really do not have arms get smacked right away and tenderized right away. The nations that do have arms or arms potential (North Korea) get reprieves.

Good point

[abassinafghan]

FATA and the former NWFP the hardest. The Pashtun race

change your facist language in the words , since when is waziristan , ghulistan dera ismael khan considerd nwfp ?

you claim to be free and true understander of pashtuns and thinker aka historian , but still you use language and words which smybolize , tyranie,suppression and cruelty. its more just than a name , its representing a system and a history of suppression .


where i come from its called paktunkwa or pashtunistan , we at home dont use words or names which were given to us by agressors and suppressors ,
i guess the RURAL PASTHUNS to which you always regard because you spent your vaccations there , also call their selfs , inhibitants of nwfp ?

de kum zai ye ?

de nun wau fe pe yeam .

and pashtun race ? what should this mean ? are there any races among humans ? we are people like any other people too .

you sound like an anglo saxon comming from the colonial 19 th century .

[Insaaf_انصاف]

There isn't war between US and Pakistan .....

[graveyardofempires]

funny thing is how atheist "pashtuns" are trying to portray the situation as hopeless but truth is afghans and the rest can easily unite under the banner of Islam but the atheist try to play ignorant about it cuz thye wont be part of it.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

funny thing is how atheist "pashtuns" are trying to portray the situation as hopeless but truth is afghans and the rest can easily unite under the banner of Islam but the atheist try to play ignorant about it cuz thye wont be part of it.

oooooh jeesss, so easy yar. so easy for afghans to unite under banner of islam. the last 40 yrs demonstrates how easy it is