An Afghan Mullah tells the Truth! (Pashto)

[Insaaf_انصاف]

mujhey path ahay yaar,ab waqt nahee hay urdu leekney koo.
mujhey urdu me bee leekna atha hay,koyee baath nahhee.

kabhi bee waziristan nahee gayee?kyon?
karachi kaisa hay?

Kyonki hamare family members, sirf Karachi rehte hai
karachi acha hai, waha me bohot pashtuns ( pathans ) rehte hai,
Sindh vi acha lagta hai mujko lol
Hum 3 vaar geya hai

[Insaaf_انصاف]

Mandarth

Maiwand and emkhan speak pashto but the funny thing is that's not what is being debated

We have a bunch of fake Pashtun nationalists here ( biggest one being Soldat) who can't speak Pashto

No one is saying that's the measure of identity. They themselves are, yet they don't fit it. Lmao
They pride themselves in not being Muslim, but what they claim to be proud of, there not even that
Wazir warrior , you can only speak Urdu

Tuje Mujee blah blah blah

That's pathetic

Thats hilarious. Well Soldat can only speak English l

When i said that i'm nationalist or atheist ? WHENNNNNNNN, OMG WHEN ?????????????????????????????

WHAT THE HELL IM NOT A NATIONALIST !!!!!!!
in the contrary, im Muslim, but a moderate Muslim.

And what about you ????
Are you pashtun ? What you are and where do you live

[unknownprince]

This is simple if maiwand is from afg his close relatives are paid abundantly from arabs,isi and if emkan is from swat then his close relative is might a maj.general in army. Otherwise their propaganda has no meaning for pashtuns troubles.
Soldat Amir is a LION on this forum. He has saved me lot of time.

Well obviously you will like the non muslim who mocks and insults Afghans on a daily basis

[Mandharh]

huh, i haven't seen Soldat said he is a non-muslim, though I don't care others religious beliefs. And he never mocked Afghans he is defending Afghans while you guys have the only agenda how to eliminate the name Afghan but you can never ever do that....

[Insaaf_انصاف]

Unknownprince ??? Are you pashtun ?

[abassinafghan]

I don't speak Pashto, but am sure I know more than you

then sit down and instead to get emotional learn your language , ask your parents uncle or some one else , force them , and if you dont find any one ,
i am more than willing to help you ,via skype or msn .

the mullah in the video is just spreading hollow words , and trust me if i can tell you with calling people "secular "/"communist" or "telling who are kafir or mumineen " you wont cath anyone who at least can read and write , because
how many business have been done on islam ,especially in our watan .
people are not so stupid as you expect them to by watching your american propaganda .


and to blame particular people or groups and calling them kuffars or communists , is just too short viewed .

which communist forced gulbudin to fire rockets on cabul ? which secular forced the topakian to plunder every thing which was mobile , who forced them to destroy our country ? tell me who was the guilty for it `?

with your logic which you claim , i can also can blame the taliban for the invasion of the americans . you see thats not a solution ,

its quiet interessting , you wont hear anything how you would solve the problems of your watandaran in a practical way ,

the only thing we hear , how people talk about islamic brotherhood with people who dont care about you , about people who think islam is wrong and how we should get rid of it , how the talibans are good for us , and how the americans are good , the only thing what you can is calling people names , and repeating hollow pharses but no answers.

this board is full of lunatics and don quichotes .

[abassinafghan]

which mess ? tell me what those "communists " have done , and tell me by name who was responsible in which way .

and tell me how " the mullahs" cleaned up the "mess "

alaka de america ye , sege delai pe america ke ye ,ou de kafir de mullah ou de communist nakluna wous ka we ?

[unknownprince]

which mess ? tell me what those "communists " have done , and tell me by name who was responsible in which way .

and tell me how " the mullahs" cleaned up the "mess "

alaka de america ye , sege delai pe america ke ye ,ou de kafir de mullah ou de communist nakluna wous ka we ?

Before you read this, be fully aware that I am reporting the historical record here, not giving you my opinion in any way. Also, be aware that I have no real opinion on Daud Khan that needs to be divulged at all. It is irrelevant that he was secular much like Zulfiqar Bhutto. The historical record reveals that the reference point for Afghanistans problems is the assassination of Daud Khan and the Communist revolution that came with it. This is point O. Please re-read (as am sure you already did), the evidence for this in the two threads below, and your own responses are there too.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ud-khan-22983/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...98/index5.html

The militant communists are responsible for Afghanistan's wars. This is a point supported by all the available evidence, Afghan and non-Afghan sources alike. Some said Mujahideen assassinated Daud Khan. They promised evidence, and have yet to provide it to support this wild claim.

In regards to the Taliban, they were a movement/phenomenon that arose after the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. They did not exist formally prior to that, and were a reaction to the chaos and infighting between the different Mujahideen groups. There was a lot of crime, and people wanted order. The below documentary while biased to some degree, gives a fairly accurate account of the specific events that gave rise to the Taliban, and why they are back again. Start listening at 5:10 I am sure you know the rest of the story, and it need not be repeated here over and over again.

Inside the Taliban 03 - N.G. - YouTube

[abassinafghan]

i have lived in this time in the watan,and you show me american tv documentary `?

you dont know what you are talking about , but do as you wish and continue to live in your dreams and keep living your facts .

i just hope that you learn your mother language and spent some time in the land of your ancestors as one of them , to realize what their life realy is .

[unknownprince]

Well, this is the historical record that it appears you protest against. Daud Khan's assassination by Militant Communists and the Communist Revolution is a black and white fact.

The Taliban's rise to power in response to the crimes and disorder that plagued Afghanistan is a fact, not a myth.

To say otherwise and to start debating the historical record is absurd

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i have lived in this time in the watan,and you show me american tv documentary `?

you dont know what you are talking about , but do as you wish and continue to live in your dreams and keep living your facts .

i just hope that you learn your mother language and spent some time in the land of your ancestors as one of them , to realize what their life realy is .

Ahhhh but I have and I do and I speak the language fluently and have lived amongst them, prayed with them, sat in the hujra and knew them.

Da yaw nakhraa tha istimaalaay che bar bar ablahanaay aw bey ilme khabaraay ra'achaay.

Let me show you were you run into incorrect logic.

So what what you have repeatedly said, since you are unable, intellectually to deal with the facts presented by easterners westerners, Americans, Russians, or whomever is: show me Afghan sources. Have you dealt with their evidences? Have you been able to show up a single statement in their work?

No you have not. Instead, you rely on: You are in America and therefore you are wrong.

Do you understand how foolish this makes you look?

Let us apply this logic: So Mullah Abdul Salaam Zaeef is also in Afghanistan. Kawun Kakar is in Afghanistan. Hamid Karzai is in Afghanistan. Zia Mossoud is in Afghanistan. Amrullah Saleh is in Afghanistan.

Its your job to justify why their words are more trustworthy than Michael Scheuers.

And then on top of this you are SELECTIVE. So if Zaeef contradicts you, you say: He is Pakistani. If Kawun Kakar says:

"In reality, the traditional way of life in villages has changed little by Taliban's rule. The situation of Afghans in the countryside controlled by the Taliban has improved because of increased peace and security, giving them the opportunity to rebuild after two decades of war. "

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

So why are YOU right and why is Kawun Kakar wrong???


Why is that AbbassinAfghan's word trumps Shirin Burki's, an Afghan author????

You ask above, who and when instigated these problems. AFG21 claims that communists were actually responding to religionists. Hogwash. Communism had no native place in Afghanistan whatsoever.

I have previously provided the answer in many places but you choose to waste my time with repeated questions that have been answered.

""Amanullah’s views on women’s role in society were not a response to widespread societal demands; rather they were infl uenced primarily by his in- laws (the highly intellectual Tarzi family) and by unfolding events in the region. Amanullah’s gender policies, however, were completely divorced from the social realities of his extremely conservative, primarily tribal, and geo graph i cally remote country. Thus, under his father- in- law Prime Minister Mahmud Tarzi’s tutelage, he undertook an ambitious and

controversial program meant to transform Af ghan i stan into a modern state in the same mold as Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s Turkey."

Reference:
http://www.ucpress.edu/content/chapters/11529.ch01.pdf

By Shirin Burki (page 2)

The author goes on to point out, astutely:

Amanullah’s government began by emphasizing secular- based (that is, non- madrassa) education and established the fi rst primary school for girls, Masturat School, in 1921 in Kabul, under the patronage of Queen Soraya.

From 1920 to 1927, two primary schools and one middle school for girls were established in Kabul, with an estimated 700 students. These numbers, however, suggest that despite strong encouragement by the Amir, most Afghans were reluctant to send their daughters to obtain what was characterized as a secular education. Furthermore,

the establishment of girls’ schools was limited to urban areas such as Kabul and Herat and thus failed to benefit the provinces."

So the evidence shows that it was not a selected few mullahs that instigated this. Rather, these forced from the outside reforms were not something that the Afghan people en masse wanted put on them.

Now IT IS YOU THAT HAS TO DEAL WITH THE EVIDENCE OF THESE SOURCES. You look foolish when you simply dismiss them as: oh they are western:

Insurgents, terrorists, and militias: the warriors of contemporary combat By Richard H. Shultz, Andrea J. Dew on page 167

"The PDPA policies for governing Afghanistan, however, proved to be impracticle and alienated the rural population. Some of the PDPA's agricultural policies for example, clashed with the traditional tribal practices of land ownership and use. Moreover attempts by the PDPA to enforce land and labor reform on the rural tribes quickly resulted in a widespread violent rebellion in the provinces.."

The US, State Department independently confirms this history:

"Opposition to the Marxist government emerged almost immediately. During its first 18 months of rule, the PDPA brutally imposed a Marxist-style "reform" program, which ran counter to deeply rooted Afghan traditions. In addition, thousands of members of the traditional elite, the religious establishment, and the intelligentsia were imprisoned, tortured, or murdered. Conflicts within the PDPA also surfaced early and resulted in exiles, purges, imprisonments, and executions."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm

Dr. Amstutz confirms this in his text: Afghanistan, the First Five Years of Soviet Occupation:

page 239 reads:

"So instead of winning the support of the landless peasents, the Taraki Amin regimes caused agrarian chaos and misery...The Marxists had expecte that their land reform program would gain widespread rural support. However, just the opposite occured. Much of the armed rebellion that broke out in 1978 was related to land reform. The peasantry provided the resistance with its MOST enthusiastic support."

http://books.google.com/books?id=RUS...page&q&f=false

Indian Author Nijjir, independently confirms this:

"But friction arose between the two factions, and their Marxist reform programs sparked major rebellions in the countryside in 1979."

http://books.google.com/books?id=xQM...page&q&f=false

4. Regarding the popularity of the people's portion of the uprising, Journey Man Films, which also published one of the only pro soviet, or soviet imbed films from the 1980s (hence their lack of bias) provided us this:

Afghan Jihad - Afghanistan - YouTube

Afghan Jihad - Afghanistan - YouTube

6 minutes in is when the discussion of land reforms occurs.

9 minutes 54 seconds in, shows the direct conflict with an Afghan tribesmen regarding the communists forced anti religious ideologies

12.21 SHOWS THE ACTUAL AFGHAN ARMY SWITCHING SIDES, COMMITTING MUTINY, AND KILLING THEIR COMMUNIST LEADERS.... it shows the actual footage of the Afghan Russian supplied armies that mutinied.

13.35 shows that half of the 80,000 conscripts deserted them..

Regarding your request for actual evidence of secularist or communist brutality and killing, sure here is a great one:

By Christopher M. Andrew, Vasili Mitrokhin

http://books.google.com/books?id=4eS...page&q&f=false

PAGE 409

"Najibullah sometimes executed prisoners himself. His preferred method, according to survivors of his prisons, was to beat his victims to the ground, and then kick them to death."

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i have lived in this time in the watan,and you show me american tv documentary `?

you dont know what you are talking about , but do as you wish and continue to live in your dreams and keep living your facts .

i just hope that you learn your mother language and spent some time in the land of your ancestors as one of them , to realize what their life realy is .

Also lets take a more simple set of examples:

Why are you right and why is Sharbat Gul and her brother wrong??? After all they are from amongst the rural masses??? She satisfies your criteria and LIVES there and SUFFERS there.

Is she also a westerner??? Let us see what she says.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...irl/index-text

"Had she ever felt safe?
"No. But life under the Taliban was better. At least there was peace and order." "

Or how she lives as a RURAL Pashtoon woman from Afghanistan when interacting with Steve McCurry, an outsider of the culture male, or any male for that matter:

""The reunion between the woman with green eyes and the photographer was quiet. On the subject of married women, cultural tradition is strict. She must not look—and certainly must not smile—at a man who is not her husband."

Oh and then her brother, the other ISI agent (sarcasm) goes on to say:

"We left Afghanistan because of the fighting," said her brother, Kashar Khan, filling in the narrative of her life. He is a straight line of a man with a raptor face and piercing eyes. "The Russians were everywhere. They were killing people. We had no choice."

"The Russian invasion destroyed our lives," her brother said.


ALL ECHOING KAWUN KAKAR, AFGHAN HISTORIAN'S COMMENTARY IN HIS HISTORY OF THE TALIBAN:

"In reality, the traditional way of life in villages has changed little by Taliban's rule. The situation of Afghans in the countryside controlled by the Taliban has improved because of increased peace and security, giving them the opportunity to rebuild after two decades of war."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

So this is what Sharbat Gul and her Brother proclaim, yet the Pakistani communist version of events (now morphed mysteriously into secular nationalist capitalist somehow) says:

1) No, Brzenzski Khan kaka brought in the civilized amazingly well behaved Russians who did no wrong and it was all the evil Brzenski Shaytaan... none of it was Russian interventionalism and massacre
2) Farhat T Andersen is representative of the true Pashtun ideals of FATA and that the mod Pashtoon rural girl would flirt and tap dance for Steve McCurry and Mr. Andersen.

I think Ill take my chances with listening to the will of the people, the will of the masses, and give them the dignity of what they want and let them progress at their own pace. I think Ill take Sharbat Gula and her brother's word for it as opposed to the reality detached one.

But of course, I am sure somehow a creative link between the ISI and the National Geographic will be uncovered

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i have lived in this time in the watan,and you show me american tv documentary `?

you dont know what you are talking about , but do as you wish and continue to live in your dreams and keep living your facts .

i just hope that you learn your mother language and spent some time in the land of your ancestors as one of them , to realize what their life realy is .

And why is it that your own colleague AFG21's words show that you are being dishonest. He himself, in his own words admitted the way the rural masses are. Why is that you both admit that you think the rural Afghans are stupid, backwards, and deserve a boot on their throat??? Because you think you are better than them??? You think you have the right to force your WILL On them? You think that is ethical? :

From AFG21 previously:

"I think that all Afghans are against this acupation, they only difrence is that some want a difrent resistantce than the taliban, we have to look at our history and see, when the russian where in Afghanistan peopel didn't care who the person against the russian were, if they were against them they were given money and weapons, but most peopel didn't realise that those peopel the so called "mujhahidin" wanted only power and money, becuase the same "mujhahidin" who were against the Kafir USSR are now sitting and letting 100 difrent Kafir nation in to Afghanistan. And now you peopel say it doesn't matter what the taliban are doing or what they have done in the past, they are against the accupiers so they are good. But if the Americans leave and the Taliban take power a lot of peopel are afraid that they would bring the same rule like they once did in the 90's. And some say the rural peopel are in favor, afcours they are in favor of taliban they don't know any better, they have the same mentality, like women is not allowed to go to work or to school. We peopel who have traveld to the WEst and have seen the world must realise that Taliban is not the solution. I am only pro taliban if they respect human rights and not do the same mistakes like in the past. But there is no gaurantee that they wouldn't do it.

So if some Afghans don't like taliban that doesn't mean that they love Americans and NATO, it is just the way taliban is fighting and what they did in the past. Because of that peopel have suspicion."

What annoyed Obama about Mullah Omar

"The bigest problem whith Afghanistan is. Is that each time when Afghanistan gets a chance to develope or to change, our neighbours manipulate this rural peopel and set them against our goverment. They manipulate them to think that how they leave now is the only good way, not that they say to them be extrime they are extrime, the mindset of our rural peopel didn't change since 1929. I know what I have said in that other post. I have leaved in Khost in a village, I know how rural peopel are. Like when Amanullah Khan wanted to devolope Afghanistan. England manipulated them to raise against him, to say that he is a kafir and wants to destroy Islam. But we all know that is noncense becuase his Laws were all based on Sharia, only some were not really Islamic. Becuase of his deprature Afghanistan was frozen in time. Only the cities changed and also the cities where majority were Farsiwan, they had some contact whithe the modern world. In the 70s the qhalk and parchamies were not the most honest or the most good peopel on this planet, but they were the reaction to this 50 years of sleeping. They wanted Afghanistan to wake up and to devolope, But again the rural mass didn;t want that. The rural mass was not stronger than the goverment now, the goverment could have controled them but our neighbours saw that if Afghanistan become strong this will be not so good for there countries. Pakistan didn´t want to give the pashtun lands to Afghanistan and Iran didn´t want to have a secular Commie like country as aneighbour. So they gave wapons and money to them. This kind of thing is now whith Taliban they where traind in Pakistan recived money from the US/Arabs/Pakis to fight and weaken us. I know that our chance to have a secular goverment is gone. But even if there will come an Islamic based goverment that can alowe the peopel to devolope and after time to change and become a better country, I would accept that. The problems where actually not completly whith the rurals. Most of the modern Afghan leaders wanted to change to fast, and you are right about that we have to change our country in our own way, but taliban don't want any change.
I am just sick and tired of Taliban and there stupidity, there waghshie way of live, I want culture, education, devolopment. I want that when peopel think of Afghanistan they would think about a beautiful country whith smart and educated peopel in stead of bearded apes who thinks that if you watch tv,listen to music, alowe women in public space whitout a burqa, waire jins or other western clothes, its a schame and haram. And do you know way the rural peopel and taliban have so much in comon, they are both besiwad and folow more old cultural habits than Islam. And culture must change. Pashtunwali is not writen in stone, Pashtunwali is not din, like any onter culture if its not gona evolve and change whith time it will be destoyd and forgoten.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i have lived in this time in the watan,and you show me american tv documentary `?

you dont know what you are talking about , but do as you wish and continue to live in your dreams and keep living your facts .

i just hope that you learn your mother language and spent some time in the land of your ancestors as one of them , to realize what their life realy is .

And the last thing I will tell you is that your own logic works against you.

So you are telling Unknown prince and others: You dont live there so you cannot talk. You live in America.

What a load of horse sh-it.

Then can Mullah Omar say to Hamid Karzai?

Che Kalaa munzh medaa medaa shwoo pa jang key, aw har tharaaft na Russyaan munzh bandaa ra khlaas woo, baraa na, landaay na, makhtha, shaa thaa; che gareebanaan topakey rowneewaa aw zindagee jawaree aukrao khodaay aw millet da paraa, tha kam zay weh? Sha suit deh wachawl ao boot deh psha ko, Islamabad Chai khanaay keh shaa araam deh karaadeh.

So what legitimazes Qayoum the Clown Karzai and Taj Wardak Abbassina? Why are they legitimized to speak on Afghanistan's behalf?

What struggle did they see in their suburban Virginia home that Zaeef and Omar did not see??

See that same criticism comes right back to you. The villager can say, hey Abbasina you may have lived here 20 years 30 years 40 years, but you how many computers do we have in our mud huts and our homes?

Basically, the people you demand we support, from Karzai to Zahir Shah to Ghani all did worse than working their a-ss off to make it in America. They lived off the welfare of other nations and now want to come back after FAILING in the west.

So it is you that has to deal with the West, not us.

[unknownprince]

And the last thing I will tell you is that your own logic works against you.

So you are telling Unknown prince and others: You dont live there so you cannot talk. You live in America.

What a load of horse sh-it.

Then can Mullah Omar say to Hamid Karzai?

Che Kalaa munzh medaa medaa shwoo pa jang key, aw har tharaaft na Russyaan munzh bandaa ra khlaas woo, baraa na, landaay na, makhtha, shaa thaa; che gareebanaan topakey rowneewaa aw zindagee jawaree aukrao khodaay aw millet da paraa, tha kam zay weh? Sha suit deh wachawl ao boot deh psha ko, Islamabad Chai khanaay keh shaa araam deh karaadeh.

So what legitimazes Qayoum the Clown Karzai and Taj Wardak Abbassina? Why are they legitimized to speak on Afghanistan's behalf?

What struggle did they see in their suburban Virginia home that Zaeef and Omar did not see??

See that same criticism comes right back to you. The villager can say, hey Abbasina you may have lived here 20 years 30 years 40 years, but you how many computers do we have in our mud huts and our homes?

Basically, the people you demand we support, from Karzai to Zahir Shah to Ghani all did worse than working their a-ss off to make it in America. They lived off the welfare of other nations and now want to come back after FAILING in the west.

So it is you that has to deal with the West, not us.

I would just like to add, that in regards to the National Geographic account which in fact gives a rather biased version of events, the account of the Taliban rise to power is given to National Geographic by Mullah Zaeef. He is a Muslim, an Afghan, a Pashtun from Kandahar. The National Geographic did not hire a look a like to make up the story.

Wow, debating historical facts just because they do not fit the way one likes to see it.

At about 5:10 in this video below, Mullah Zaeef, starts giving the account of the events, the painful events that brought the rise of the Taliban.

Inside the Taliban 03 - N.G. - YouTube