Does Pakistan have a saviour in Imran Khan ?

[Insaaf_انصاف]

^ in the 1980's Imran Khan wrote a book (forgot the name) in which he wrote extensively about pashtun culture, you could clearly sense that he was proud of his roots.

so him being against pashtuns is not true at all

He is not pashtun, he just have pashtun roots but he is Punjabi ! And he defends Pakis like you, not pashtuns...

[az4er]

^ in the 1980's Imran Khan wrote a book (forgot the name) in which he wrote extensively about pashtun culture, you could clearly sense that he was proud of his roots.

so him being against pashtuns is not true at all

I think you're talking about his autobiography; I don't believe he's anti-Pashtun whatsoever, but what concerns me is his foreign policy especially that towards Afghanistan. Will he let the people of Afghanistan handle their issues for themselves and reach out to them diplomatically (as is the normal way) or will he advocate giving a free hand to the ISI, as has been the norm since the Soviet invasion? Also, will he allow Pashtuns in Pakhtunkhwa to self determine whats best for them or will he try to thwart Pashtuns via extremist indoctrination or any other kind of manipulation, which has also been a policy of Pakistan (the British before then) since its inception?

These are worrying scenarios, also the fact that he was brought into politics in Pakistan by certified psychopath Hamid Gul, who also happens to be one of his two main foreign policy advisers. The other is Shireen Mazari.

[Toramana]

Actually he understands Pashto perfectly; we were sitting next to each other on the same flight. Only he doesn't speak it all too well and is kind of embarrassed to speak it (it sounds babyish). His father spoke Pashto well enough and his mother and her family spoke Ordoo; his mother's a Burki but their family immigrated to India during British rule.

He's actually a very proud Pashtun and has traveled extensively throughout Pashtun territory in pakistan. Also, he gets annoyed when people use "pathan" instead of Pashtun or Pakhtun and tries not to use the term himself. I was pleasantly surprised by how much he knew and understood and also by his endorsement of the Jirga system for community welfare. A significant amount of his closest friends are Pashtuns from Pakhtunkhwa. Same is the case with his closest advisers.

I interacted him once ---He doesn't understand more than a few broken words of Pashto---In every sense of the word, he is a Punjabi having been born to Punjabi parents in the core Punjabi city of Lahore and was raised in a Punjabi social environment----

One Pashtun who studied with him at Aitcheson College Lahore told me when he (Imran ) would go to Punjabis he would say he is a Punjabi but when he would come to us he would say "I am a Pathan".

As for I can guess, this Pashtun ethnic connection is fabricated because the guy got his tertiary education in Britian where most of the Desis develop identity complexis and would try to associate themselves with a group that Westerners respect---As Pashtuns had such an image so he projected himself a Pashtun.

This person is the worst enemy of Pashtuns. Just surf youtube.com and find how on every forum whether CNN, CBC, BBC, etc. he misprojected Pashtuns to be the main cause of militancy...Obviously, this is aimed at shifting focus away from Punjabi ISI and military.

[unknownprince]

answer now, dont run away

[QUOTE]

I interacted him once

Doesn't Farhat ANDERSEN start of her stories like this?

-

--He doesn't understand more than a few broken words of Pashto

Does he claim to be a Pashtun nationalist? Does he claim to be versed in Pashto, or has he ever made an issue of this? If he has, please provide the sources and evidence.

---In every sense of the word, he is a Punjabi having been born to Punjabi parents in the core Punjabi city of Lahore and was raised in a Punjabi social environment----

Isn't it best to see him for what he WILL achieve in doing his part to end Pakistan' support for the US war, and doing his part to end the US occupation of Afghanistan? Please provide sources and evidence as well as a position to explain how these are bad positions for him to have.

One Pashtun who studied with him at Aitcheson College Lahore told me when he (Imran ) would go to Punjabis he would say he is a Punjabi but when he would come to us he would say "I am a Pathan".

I heard this, he said/ she said that- just like Farhat Andersen says...

By the way, I actually have met him years ago when he was the butt of jokes in Pakistan and considered naive because his ambition while principled could never pay off. Looks like it has now though.

As for I can guess, this Pashtun ethnic connection is fabricated because the guy got his tertiary education in Britian where most of the Desis develop identity complexis and would try to associate themselves with a group that Westerners respected---As Pashtuns had such an image so he projected himself a Pashtun.

Again, please show me where he has beat his chest in pride about being Pashtun. He is a Niazi, but he makes no bones about it. However, his positions in regards to drone attacks and the US war and occupation of Afghanistan resonate with all, and especially Pashtuns. He brought together a gathering condemning the drone strikes. At this gathering, Tariq, a a 16-year old boy was present. His relatives had been killed by US drone strikes. A week later Tariq and another boy were killed by US drone strikes.Bureau reporter meets 16-year-old three days before US drone kills him: TBIJ
Farhat Andersen is a proven liar (Huffington Post) http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...g-again-22588/ http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ndersen-16188/ and continues to fabricate lies, saying that people support drone attacks, and the US war when all polls/reports refute this. Foolish as she is, the Pakistani establishment is behind the drone attacks with the US, so she wants Pakistan to continue to support the US war and occupation of Afghanistan.

This person is the worst enemy of Pashtuns. Just surf youtube.com and find how on every forum whether CNN, CBC, BBC, etc. he misprojected Pashtuns to be the main cause of militancy...Obviously, this is aimed at shifting focus away from Punjabi ISI and military.

I just do not see how a man who wants to end Pakistan's support for the US war (which is morally wrong and inhumane) and also wants to end drone strikes as well as the US occupation can be considered an enemy of Pashtuns. Please explain how he is since I just fail to see it as you do.

Khan winds down the Afghan war - Indian Punchline
Imran asks rulers to end alliance in

[Toramana]

[QUOTE=unknownprince;546068]

Doesn't Farhat ANDERSEN start of her stories like this?

- Does he claim to be a Pashtun nationalist? Does he claim to be versed in Pashto, or has he ever made an issue of this? If he has, please provide the sources and evidence.

Isn't it best to see him for what he WILL achieve in doing his part to end Pakistan' support for the US war, and doing his part to end the US occupation of Afghanistan? Please provide sources and evidence as well as a position to explain how these are bad positions for him to have.

I heard this, he said/ she said that- just like Farhat Andersen says...

By the way, I actually have met him years ago when he was the butt of jokes in Pakistan and considered naive because his ambition while principled could never pay off. Looks like it has now though.

Again, please show me where he has beat his chest in pride about being Pashtun. He is a Niazi, but he makes no bones about it. However, his positions in regards to drone attacks and the US war and occupation of Afghanistan resonate with all, and especially Pashtuns. He brought together a gathering condemning the drone strikes. At this gathering, Tariq, a a 16-year old boy was present. His relatives had been killed by US drone strikes. A week later Tariq and another boy were killed by US drone strikes.Bureau reporter meets 16-year-old three days before US drone kills him: TBIJ
Farhat Andersen is a proven liar (Huffington Post) http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...g-again-22588/ http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ndersen-16188/ and continues to fabricate lies, saying that people support drone attacks, and the US war when all polls/reports refute this. Foolish as she is, the Pakistani establishment is behind the drone attacks with the US, so she wants Pakistan to continue to support the US war and occupation of Afghanistan.

I just do not see how a man who wants to end Pakistan's support for the US war (which is morally wrong and inhumane) and also wants to end drone strikes as well as the US occupation can be considered an enemy of Pashtuns. Please explain how he is since I just fail to see it as you do.

Khan winds down the Afghan war - Indian Punchline
Imran asks rulers to end alliance in

You are mentally sick my friend --- having gone so far-ahead in American enmity that can't see the devious role played by Imran Khan and his backers from ISI and your and other Taleb's pay-master. His propagand is actually aimed at camouflaging ISI and Punjabi military hand in instablilty in the region and its designs and ambition ---

This doesn't mean I am a supporter of US. Its foreign policy has caused so much damage to Pashtuns. But objectively speaking Punjabis cannot be trusted.

[unknownprince]

[QUOTE=Toramana;546070]

You are mentally sick my friend --- having gone so far-ahead in American enmity that can't see the devious role played by Imran Khan and his backers from ISI and your and other Taleb's pay-master. His propagand is actually aimed at camouflaging ISI and Punjabi military hand in instablilty in the region and its designs and ambition ---

This doesn't mean I am a supporter of US. Its foreign policy has caused so much damage to Pashtuns. But objectively speaking Punjabis cannot be trusted.

I expect a point by point refutation of my post http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...76/index2.html about your issues with Imran Khan and his positions, principally in regards to ending Pakistan's support for the US war and occupation of Afghanistan, and drone attacks.

I expect sources and not Farhat Andersen type stories of "I heard this..I heard that...once upon a time..."

Please reciprocate my point by point refutation of yours with sources and facts for all.

Enough of your mentally sick phrase because only a morally and mentally sick person supports the US war/occupation/drone attacks like
Farhat ANDERSEN (a representation of filth)

[Toramana]

[QUOTE=unknownprince;546071]

I expect a point by point refutation of my post http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...76/index2.html about your issues with Imran Khan and his positions, principally in regards to ending Pakistan's support for the US war and occupation of Afghanistan, and drone attacks.

I expect sources and not Farhat Andersen type stories of "I heard this..I heard that...once upon a time..."

Please reciprocate my point by point refutation of yours with sources and facts for all.

Enough of your mentally sick phrase because only a morally and mentally sick person supports the US war/occupation/drone attacks like
Farhat ANDERSEN (a representation of filth)

Your place is in the dustbin of history my friend ---On the one hand, there are people with advanced minds, thinking, strategies, sophistication, etc. and the other hand you've got apes.

Until you develop that sophistication, your fantasies will remain fantasies ---and in that fantastic impulse you will be becoming tissue paper for other people designs....

[unknownprince]

[QUOTE=Toramana;546078]

Your place is in the dustbin of history my friend ---On the one hand, there are people with advanced minds, thinking, strategies, sophistication, etc. and the other hand you've got apes.

Until you develop that sophistication, your fantasies will remain fantasies ---and in that fantastic impulse you will be becoming tissue paper for other people designs....

Actually, I have no place in history. Maybe unlike others, you need to learn to leave the "YOUS" and "Is" out of this, it shows a lack of faith in your own ideas, really.

So, how about just stick to facts, yeah?


In replying to this request, please provide sources and evidence indicating that Imran Khan is an enemy of peace, an enemy of Afghans, and an enemy of the region.

Also, show how his positions in regards to ending Pakistan support for the US war and occupation are not good because it appears this is the sticking issue, right? Frankly, that is all that people care about in regards to foreign policy. This Pakistan cooperation with the US is deemed toxic for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the entire region for that matter.

Logically, there is no other way to see it if peace and freedom is the objective at hand for Afghanistan, and the entire region. The US presence is the source of instability, and it is the barrier to peace within Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the entire region. US meddling is the barrier to peace within the entire free and civilized world.

[Toramana]

[QUOTE=unknownprince;546083]

Actually, I have no place in history. Maybe unlike others, you need to learn to leave the "YOUS" and "Is" out of this, it shows a lack of faith in your own ideas, really.

So, how about just stick to facts, yeah?


In replying to this request, please provide sources and evidence indicating that Imran Khan is an enemy of peace, an enemy of Afghans, and an enemy of the region.

Also, show how his positions in regards to ending Pakistan support for the US war and occupation are not good because it appears this is the sticking issue, right? Frankly, that is all that people care about in regards to foreign policy. This Pakistan cooperation with the US is deemed toxic for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the entire region for that matter.

Logically, there is no other way to see it if peace and freedom is the objective at hand for Afghanistan, and the entire region. The US presence is the source of instability, and it is the barrier to peace within Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the entire region. US meddling is the barrier to peace within the entire free and civilized world.

Until we have fanatics like Talebs, Mullah Omars, etc. who gave the US excuse to meddle in our part of the part of the world, we cannot have stable societies---Presence of apes, fanatics, etc. can never lead to cohesive, harmonous societies. The same apes were on CIA payroll some decades back driven by greed and anti-communist fanaticism---then ravaged the whole country and destroyed every bit of order in society.

No doubt US has played its own devious role driven by its global interests, but the real source of the trouble actually are fanatics.

[unknownprince]

[QUOTE]

Until we have fanatics like Talebs, Mullah Omars, etc. who gave the US excuse to meddle in our part of the part of the world, we cannot have stable societies---Presence of apes, fanatics, etc. can never lead to cohesive, harmonous societies.

US has been meddling in the region significantly since 1953 when they removed Mossadeq from power in Iran, and installed the hated Shah, and even prior to that. Their meddling is is opposed by the region and people. The US started wars with Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1, 2, as well as recently Libya, Yemen, Somlia, and Uganda.

The same apes were on CIA payroll some decades back driven by greed and anti-communist fanaticism

Militant communists/secularists are solely responsible for Afghanistan wars and conflicts. There was militant communist/secularist subversive activity during Daud Khan's period in power. He objected to this. For these militant communists/secularists, Daud Khan was not secular enough for them, and there they murdered him and his family and had the Communist revolution as outlined throughout this thread http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...98/index5.html

---then ravaged the whole country and destroyed every bit of order in society.

No, as outlined here in these two threads http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...98/index5.html http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ud-khan-22983/ , it was the Militant Communists/Secularists- the murderers of Daud Khan, and the Communist Revolution that is the sole and single cause of all of Afghanistan's problem. Daud Khan was not secular enough for them. Come on now, dont blame the reactionary Mullahs for the actions committed by the Militant Communists/Secularists (terrorists fanatics of the region) who are to blame for all of Afghanistan wars. This is the historical record.

No doubt US has played its own devious role driven by its global interests, but the real source of the trouble actually are fanatics.

The source of all the global problems is the US meddling in regional affairs since and even prior to 1953 in regards to the Muslim world. Iraq experienced murder from the sky in 1991 and 2003. US meddling in the region is the sole reason for instability and peace. Regional consensus has tipped against US meddling.

No nation wants any other nation to interfere in their foreign policy.

[Wahe Guru]

I interacted him once ---He doesn't understand more than a few broken words of Pashto---In every sense of the word, he is a Punjabi having been born to Punjabi parents in the core Punjabi city of Lahore and was raised in a Punjabi social environment----

One Pashtun who studied with him at Aitcheson College Lahore told me when he (Imran ) would go to Punjabis he would say he is a Punjabi but when he would come to us he would say "I am a Pathan".

As for I can guess, this Pashtun ethnic connection is fabricated because the guy got his tertiary education in Britian where most of the Desis develop identity complexis and would try to associate themselves with a group that Westerners respect---As Pashtuns had such an image so he projected himself a Pashtun.

This person is the worst enemy of Pashtuns. Just surf youtube.com and find how on every forum whether CNN, CBC, BBC, etc. he misprojected Pashtuns to be the main cause of militancy...Obviously, this is aimed at shifting focus away from Punjabi ISI and military.

Pashtuns are a group that Westerners respect? Stop day dreaming. Pashtuns are mainly viewed as barbaric and with minds from middle ages. True that some westerners that came across him might have been fascinated by his light skin. He might have a bit of Tocharian mixings thats all. Nothing to shout about.

[unknownprince]

And what did bootlicking get India or Pakistan?

Respect?

[Wahe Guru]

"the Punjabi is enamoured of the Pathan because he represents the extreme end of honour on the subcontinent." - Punjabis are enamoured of Pathans? Dont make me laugh buddy. If it makes you feel better writing that then keep at it. I have read enough comments from Pathans here and no right thinking Punjabi would be enamoured of Pathans in any way. I have met plenty of Pathans (or Pashtuns or Pakhtuns whatever you want to call yourselves) and no I did not become esepcially enamoured of Pathans any more than of Arabs for that matter.

[Toramana]

"the Punjabi is enamoured of the Pathan because he represents the extreme end of honour on the subcontinent." - Punjabis are enamoured of Pathans? Dont make me laugh buddy. If it makes you feel better writing that then keep at it. I have read enough comments from Pathans here and no right thinking Punjabi would be enamoured of Pathans in any way. I have met plenty of Pathans (or Pashtuns or Pakhtuns whatever you want to call yourselves) and no I did not become esepcially enamoured of Pathans any more than of Arabs for that matter.

Mr. Wahe Guru, unlike the Punjabi who has mostly been an appendage of the Brehmin of Central India socially, politically, and ideologically and has bowed to every invader from the south or the north in subservience, Pashtun has always had his unique identity and has stood for his honour and dignity.

And that is the reason for respect for the Pashtun.

Rest as for the Punjabi civilization, I have been to Punjabi villages on the either side of Wahaga---and the only feelings you have from the scence are that of misery and dirt ugliness (speaking of life-style).

[sanman]

Imran Khan is just the army's new blue-eyed boy. Because army/ISI are upset over 'memogate' and Zardari, they have started supporting Imran Khan and his Tehreek-i-Insaaf. Army can't support Nawaz Sharif, because they already have bad relations with him. Also Musharraf and his PML-Q aren't very marketable to the Pakistani public. So army has to fall back on supporting Imran Khan.

But Imran Khan's maverick loose-tongued personality is not suitable for being subservient to the army, so that relationship will likely collapse very quickly too. Army is running out of cards to play, and are their bag of tricks is almost empty.