The two elite of Afghanistan---The Real Elite and the Leeser Elite

[Toramana]

From the discussions on this board and from the exchanges of Azmal, ComradePashtun etc., it sounds to me there are two elite in Pashtuns of Afghanistan; the real elite that has held power ---and the loser-type lesser elite that feeling alienated/marginalized is trying to vent its resenment and grab power through support to orthodox movements e.g. Taleban, Wahabi, Akhwanis etc.


What do you people think about this?

[Toramana]

In my opinion, the real elite is the true Afghan patriot---And that is understandable because being the founders and nourishers of Afghan identity and entity, the real elite has the strongest sense of belonging and committment to Afghans, Afghanistan, and the Afghan culture, values, and ethoes. The lesser elite on the other hand is trying to grab power through appeal to sentiment (rooted in a foreign ideology) that trivailizes and negates Afghan identity---that is because they know they cannot fight on the turf of Afghan patriotism---

[Badshah Khan Wazir]

Who are these two groups of elites you speak of?

Name them please.

[Toramana]

Who are these two groups of elites you speak of?

Name them please.

Mashra, oos ma walai da "sharmakhano" pa khwla kai warkai---actually, the first group as I said is the old elite ---the true Afghan patriots----The second group are kind of pity tribal figures not deeply engrassed into Afghan identity at the higher cultutral/political level (although they may have some attachment with Afghan identity at subcultural level) and on the fringes of political power arena.

[Badshah Khan Wazir]

Mashra, oos ma walai da "sharmakhano" pa khwla kai warkai---actually, the first group as I said is the old elite ---the true Afghan patriots----The second group are kind of pity tribal figures not deeply engrassed into Afghan identity at the higher cultutral/political level (although they may have some attachment with Afghan identity at subcultural level) and on the fringes of political power arena.

So by the "true Afghan patriots", who do you mean?

The Kabul-sat Tajik-assimilated upper classes of "Pashtun descent", complete with a Tribal last name and foreign bank account?
Do they still exist?

And let me guess, by "tribal figures", you mean the likes of Pacha Khan Zadron & Co.?

In my experience, warlords and Talibs are more in touch with reality than upper class secularists as they live amongst the people they represent (or claim to, anyway).

[Toramana]

So by the "true Afghan patriots", who do you mean?

The Kabul-sat Tajik-assimilated upper classes of "Pashtun descent", complete with a Tribal last name and foreign bank account?
Do they still exist?

And let me guess, by "tribal figures", you mean the likes of Pacha Khan Zadron & Co.?

In my experience, warlords and Talibs are more in touch with reality than upper class secularists as they live amongst the people they represent (or claim to, anyway).

Mashra, you couldn't understand my point well---Or I couldn't explain it well---We all know how problematic this tarburwali in Pukhtuns is---Imagine part of the clan succeeds to hold political power for a long time becoming affluent and the main drivers and movers of power whereas the rest of the cousins stay just a fringe element---One can well imagine the consequences...

[Alchemist]

That doesn't make sense...

anyone can claim to be "the true patriots". That is a real subjective value to go by...

[Badshah Khan Wazir]

Mashra, you couldn't understand my point well---Or I couldn't explain it well---We all know how problematic this tarburwali in Pukhtuns is---Imagine part of the clan succeeds to hold political power for a long time becoming affluent and the main drivers and movers of power whereas the rest of the cousins stay just a fringe element---One can well imagine the consequences...

I fail to understand your original point, but yes, I agree that this inter-family conflict can be a major threat to the nation as a whole.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

@ Toramana, the insinuation doesn't seem to be working, say it loud and clear, why go around in circles? Name both the elites and let Pashtuns on PF elaborate. Not two people could agree on the term "Patriotism" or its values, it is something open to self-interpretation.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Toramana is saying that Ghilzais tribal federation are not really Pashtuns, and the Durranis are.