Hamid Guls grandfather supported Mirwais neeka?

[thetruth]

Hamid Gul's grandfather was 100% behind Mirwais neeka when he defeated the Persians and lead a retaliatory invasion of Persia. There is clear evidence that points to this as there was a man at time whose name was Gul.


Logically speaking, this makes sense since Afghans were ok with Gurgin Khan. So Hamid Gul's grandfather had to instigate them to fight the Persians and deal them a crushing defeat.


Hamid Gul himself was the person who later on brought Amir Al-mumineen Ahmad Shah Baba to power to form the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

He also decided that Ahmad Shah Baba should proclaim himself Amir Al-Mumineen in order to draw the support of the Islamic world (btw- Ahmad Shah Baba was in fact Amir-Al Mumineen (translationfor those athiests - it means Commander of the Faithful).

Hamid Gul. Hamid Gul then must be really old.

?

[thetruth]

by the way, this is a joke Soldat. Please do not thank this post. I did not mean it.

It is called sarcasm if you did not know.

sar·casm

   [sahr-kaz-uhm]
noun 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

[Soldat_Amir]

Dear Unknownprince

Ahmad Shah, did not unite the Pashtun tribes under Islam, he united them in the name of "Indian gems".

Plus, Ahmad Shah, was a Nationalist by core, a strong Afghan warrior, not like the Saudi/Punjabi coward proxy called Mullah Omar.

Unknownprince, Ahmad Shah would be turning in his grave, if he found out, people like you are comparing him with a dooo nambar ISI jassus, who brought Afghanistan under Paki control.

Mullah Omar, allowed Afghanistan, to be used by Punjabi Paki Islamist Jihadi groups, show me where has Ahmad Shah Baba ever done such a thing?

Did Ahmad Shah Baba, hide in Pakistan, sell his soul to the likes of General Babar, and got training to kill his own people?

You really are desparate. There were many Hindu, Buddhist and Pagan kingdoms that ruled Afghanistan, you dont see me saying "Afghan king by the way, was a Pagan Hindu".

Your a fail!

[thetruth]

Ahmad Shah Baba was known as Amir Al-Mumineen

This is fact

[thetruth]

Dear Unknownprince

Ahmad Shah, did not unite the Pashtun tribes under Islam, he united them in the name of "Indian gems".

Plus, Ahmad Shah, was a Nationalist by core, a strong Afghan warrior, not like the Saudi/Punjabi coward proxy called Mullah Omar.

Unknownprince, Ahmad Shah would be turning in his grave, if he found out, people like you are comparing him with a dooo nambar ISI jassus, who brought Afghanistan under Paki control.

Mullah Omar, allowed Afghanistan, to be used by Punjabi Paki Islamist Jihadi groups, show me where has Ahmad Shah Baba ever done such a thing?

Did Ahmad Shah Baba, hide in Pakistan, sell his soul to the likes of General Babar, and got training to kill his own people?

You really are desparate. There were many Hindu, Buddhist and Pagan kingdoms that ruled Afghanistan, you dont see me saying "Afghan king by the way, was a Pagan Hindu".

Your a fail!

Buddy, I do not know who this UnknownPrince is. If you are calling me a Prince, then thank you, but I do not deserve such flattery.

Please stick to the debate.

This is what you need to do as it appears you do not care to read printed facts which people post. Please research Ahmad Shah Abdali and the Cloak of the Prophet(pbuh), then read about Shah Waliollah and the Islamic Jihad which was declared against India.

It is a fact that Afghanistan was founded as an Islamic Emirate (Emirate- define that).

[abassinafghan]

thetruth

there is a fatwa , which labels ismaeli shias who follow aga khan ,as kafirs .

as traitors of ahlu bayt and the ummah . so if we see a ismaeli it is our god given right to slay them down

ali jinah was an ismaeli who cooperated with the brits , like the ones against this fatwa was released in the past .

so its a duty of every sunni muslim , to fight against the ismaelis and their masters the brits.

pakistan was founded by ismaelis , the bureaucracy of the british raj relied on the them .

and today again they are SUPPORTING the occupation of afghanistan .

[Soldat_Amir]

thetruth

there is a fatwa , which labels ismaeli shias who follow aga khan ,as kafirs .

as traitors of ahlu bayt and the ummah . so if we see a ismaeli it is our god given right to slay them down

ali jinah was an ismaeli who cooperated with the brits , like the ones against this fatwa was released in the past .

so its a duty of every sunni muslim , to fight against the ismaelis and their masters the brits.

pakistan was founded by ismaelis , the bureaucracy of the british raj relied on the them .

and today again they are SUPPORTING the occupation of afghanistan .

These Pakis are only using Islam as a tool to spread their "Pakistaniyat" upon Afghans. They forget, that Afghans have a very rich history and a strong identity, for which Pakis dont, they are just a new born civilisation invented by the British to secure its Anglo/Presence in the region.

Most of Pakistani society is pure hypocrasy. They vote in secularists in Punjab to develop and unify their land, but put Islamists in our region to keep us backward and in a war state amongst ourselves. Even the Islamists who declare suicide bombing in Afghanistan as Halal but in Pakistan as Haraam, are happy to live and vote under a Secular democracy, go to Pakistan Punjab, you ever seen a Pakistani Islamist group declare war on Punjab/Pakistan, on a funny note, the Punjabi Taliban which was led by Omar Punjab is based in Mir Ali, North Waziristan, again in a Pashtun region.

Even though I have preached Pashtun unity and supported a strong developed Afghanistan that will one day march on Peshawar and host the Afghan flag, I still get called a Kaffir and a enemy of Islam by these criminals who wish Afghanistan is turned into a breeding ground of pointless foreigners from the Islamic world especially the Arab world.

Its these people who will bring Afghanistan to the brick of total destruction not the Secularists. If a Islamist government takes over Afghanistan, expect the Shias, the non Wahabis, the Pirs will be targetted, and society as a whole will be open to external meddling.

[thetruth]

The point of the irony I am making here is to show how conflicted you are. If you are attempting to attribute Afghan resistance today to the outside, then you might as well attribute Mirwais's defeat of the persians to the outside too. Maybe you would say it is Hamid Gul's great great great great great Uncle?

The problem is you and a moral man oppose Pakistan for two different reasons. You want more slavery, whereas others oppose this slavery.

I am simply pointing to a conflict of thought.

Mirwais neeka was a fervent Muslim as well as Ahmad Shah Baba

You cant go against historical fact and fashion them as something they were not

Afghanistan was founded as an Islamic Emirate. This is fact.

Hamid Gul had nothing to do with it.

[thetruth]

thetruth

there is a fatwa , which labels ismaeli shias who follow aga khan ,as kafirs .

as traitors of ahlu bayt and the ummah . so if we see a ismaeli it is our god given right to slay them down

ali jinah was an ismaeli who cooperated with the brits , like the ones against this fatwa was released in the past .

so its a duty of every sunni muslim , to fight against the ismaelis and their masters the brits.

pakistan was founded by ismaelis , the bureaucracy of the british raj relied on the them .

and today again they are SUPPORTING the occupation of afghanistan .

Pakistan betrayed Afghanistan by supporting the US war. Do not get confused by my presentation of facts as some endorsement of one group over the other.
They continue to support this US war against Afghanistan. They played a double game.
It is no news that now Pakistan has their own interests in Afghanistan, meaning in having Afghanistan free from US occupation. They will continue to work to ensure the exit of US and a defeat. It is called a convergence of interests, nothing more. The Taliban will always remember that Pakistan allied with the US.

In no way does this take away from the the basis of Afghan resistance as some may think it does. Iran also wants the US out, but they were hoping to have a pro Shiite government in a Sunni Afghanistan. It appears that they are coming to terms with this impossibility and realizing that karzai government will not last. They were hoping Karzai could be another Nur Maliki.

I have no need to give my position on anything as I am just being factual. If you can't stomach the facts, that is your issue.

[thetruth]

thetruth

there is a fatwa , which labels ismaeli shias who follow aga khan ,as kafirs .

as traitors of ahlu bayt and the ummah . so if we see a ismaeli it is our god given right to slay them down

ali jinah was an ismaeli who cooperated with the brits , like the ones against this fatwa was released in the past .

so its a duty of every sunni muslim , to fight against the ismaelis and their masters the brits.

pakistan was founded by ismaelis , the bureaucracy of the british raj relied on the them .

and today again they are SUPPORTING the occupation of afghanistan .

Pakistan betrayed Afghanistan by supporting the US war. Do not get confused by my presentation of facts as some endorsement of one group over the other.
They continue to support this US war against Afghanistan. They played a double game.
It is no news that now Pakistan has their own interests in Afghanistan, meaning in having Afghanistan free from US occupation. They will continue to work to ensure the exit of US and a defeat. It is called a convergence of interests, nothing more. The Taliban will always remember that Pakistan allied with the US.
They will also remember the Awami National Partied support for the US war too
In no way does this take away from the the basis of Afghan resistance as some may think it does. Iran also wants the US out, but they were hoping to have a pro Shiite government in a Sunni Afghanistan.

I have no need to give my position on anything as I am just being factual. If you can't stomach the facts, that is your issue.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Unknownprince

Ahmad Shah, did not unite the Pashtun tribes under Islam, he united them in the name of "Indian gems".

Plus, Ahmad Shah, was a Nationalist by core, a strong Afghan warrior, not like the Saudi/Punjabi coward proxy called Mullah Omar.

Unknownprince, Ahmad Shah would be turning in his grave, if he found out, people like you are comparing him with a dooo nambar ISI jassus, who brought Afghanistan under Paki control.

Mullah Omar, allowed Afghanistan, to be used by Punjabi Paki Islamist Jihadi groups, show me where has Ahmad Shah Baba ever done such a thing?

Did Ahmad Shah Baba, hide in Pakistan, sell his soul to the likes of General Babar, and got training to kill his own people?

You really are desparate. There were many Hindu, Buddhist and Pagan kingdoms that ruled Afghanistan, you dont see me saying "Afghan king by the way, was a Pagan Hindu".

Your a fail!

Sorry wrorre, actually its you that fails against the arc of historical fact!

Historically inaccurate commentary. Let me devastate you now with a historical reference you and the other secularist nationalists must deal with when attempting to reinvent history. Once again, please respond to the quote, not to me. And all others here better date to think twice before besmirching graan Ahmad Shah Baba and even associating such a brilliant person with Karzai and Achakzai. Thats like compariing Einstein and two gophers.

From The Rise of the Indo Afghan Empire by Jos JL Gommans [Another ISI agent I presume???? (sarcasm)]:


"Not surprisingly Ahmad Shah mentioned repeatedly that he came to India for the support of the Afghans, whose territories were threatened by Jat and Maratha idolators. "

Oh and once he succeeded Mr. Maseed, in taking those gems, what exactly did he do... once again STRONG reference. He did not endorse your secular respect for idolatory:

"In the case of India, infidels threatened the beleagured padshah and his ministers in Delhi. In order to reestablish the lawful Mughal rule, Ahmad Shah declared a holy war (jihad) against the kuffar of Hind, in casu the Marathas and Sikh, who had dared to build their temples even in Delhi, at the center of the dar ul islam. Performing his religious duty, the Durrani had, immediatly on arrival in the Mughal capital, razed these symbols of idolatory to the ground." (Page 56)

http://books.google.com/books?id=-2T...20shah&f=false

Oops, he's beginning to look more like he would have had some shnaay chai more comfortably with Mullah Omar than that idiot wataan farosh khanzeer Karzai.

And what of his predecessor Hotak Ghilzai:?

"The Afghan Ghilzai chiefs had turned to the mughals for imperial approval of their revolt against the Safavids. As sincere sunnis they had first procured a fatwa from the establishment ulama in Mecca which authorized them to dissociate themselves from the Iranian Shiite court."

Oooooooops Maseed, looks like Nationalist Mir Wais Neeka took off his red hat and decided he needed to write the Arabists in Mecca, or the Camelists as you call them, for a fatwa to overthrow Isfahan.

Oh and in regard to the Ghilzai recognition of a universal caliphate... or dare I say Pan Islamism in the context of a stronger regional united sunni powerbase (<---- Oh Toramana just did this while reading this!)

"In 1727 the Ghilzais acknowledged the rightful succession of the Ottomon Sultan to the Caliphate, which means that 40 years before the treaty Kucuk Kaynarka (1774) between the Ottomans and the Russians, The Ottomans found significant support for their claim to the universal caliphate (sub reference in primary reference on 46 footnote to MA Hemkat 182-185)"

And Ahmad Shah's great success? Unlike Mr Karzai, he let NO ONE set the rules for him... he not only thought outside of the box... he destroyed the box and dispended its ashes:

"The Afghans defied the Mughal and Safavid embrace and created a particular Durrani form of Irano Islamic universalism..."
page 47

In regard to the charge that Ahmad Shah was simply Nadir's lacky... WRONG. After Nadir's death, the safavid pertender Sulaiman sent "two agents who consdescendingly demanded the handing over of Herat to its rightful safavid soveriegn... he severely punished the agents and decided he would do the same to their preposterous masters in Mashad"
page 49

Regarding Ahmad Shah Abdali's religious mysticism:

In fact there is a letter PRESERVED IN TURKEY In the state annals in its original form from Ahmad Shah to the Ottoman Sultan. In it Ahmad Shah expresses his religious ideology that Nadir Shah was a punishment of God. Why Maseed?

The Iranians, according to Ahmad Shah had "transgressed to decadence and sensual pleasures...this time, no one heeded religious prescriptions (Nawahi yi Allahi wa iqtiza yi asar u sunun i hazrat e rasulat i
panahi)....

and their marry making and dumthop was termed by him as:

"asar i fitna u shararaat"

page 50 FROM THE PERSIAN QUOTES OF THE LETTER THEMSELVES.
Page 50: Secondary reference from Jilani Jalali via the manuscript preserved in the National Archives in Istanbul

He went on in the letter to say that he was leading the life of a "mystic sufi, contemplating the truths of the "hidden world" and renouncing worldly pleasures... and he credited God with bestowing on him his earthly leadership. (page 50)

In the famous Ahmad Shah, Nama

"he situates himself in the tradition of the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliph (page 51 and sub reference)"

According to page 51, Ahmad Shah Baba took such tutelage from the Ottoman Sultanate and asked the Caliph to recognize the 12ver shiites as an additional madhab so that he could establish , in the words of the author himself:

"An Eastern Pan Islamic empire...." page 51.. though Ahmad Shah was not personally convinced of Shiism as per "this was not determined by any personal religious convictions" in regard to any view that he had in regard to shiism actually being acceptable.

According to Dr. Gommans:

"from the Durrani point of view, the Indian descendents of Timur (Gurganiya) had been negligent and powerless in holding up the empire and the right religion." (page 55)

According to Tarikh e Ahmad Shah as referenced in the text (page 56) Ahmad Shah believed he was rushing there to "destroy the unbelievers"

In fact, Ahmad Shah Durrani recieved the letters inviting him to committ to Jihad in India by Shah Waliullah, "who urged the Durrani emperor to intervene in Indian affairs for the sake of Islam" the subreference given on page 56 KA Nizami's 1950's era text on Shah Waliullah.

His contemporary and freind, the Rohilla hafiz Rahmat Khan "history subscribes to the Durrani motive of invasion: to wage jihad against the marathas, sikhs, farangi, and jat infidels." page 61 sub reference to Hafiz Rahmat's Khulasaat

Submit Maseed... you have lost. The proof of history lays against you. Do not even dare to encroach on the history of Ahmad Shah or Mir Wais and claim that they would be sick, sell out Karzai and Achakzai style people.

And in regard to that personage of Shah Waliullah Delvi... do you know why your friend Baygham would cring when he would hear that name of that friend and advisor of Ahmad Shah Abdali's?

Because that same Shah Waliullah would give birth to a son... named Shah Abdul Aziz... do you know who that was Maseed? No, you probably do not wrorre. So i will tell you:
He was the seed, the son, the scion of Shah Waliullah and the advisor to.... wait for it... wait for it...

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...Deobandism.pdf

Syed Ahmad Barelvi

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Loooool Oh and Maseed Wrorre, I am sorry, but I am about to crush your ahistorical attitude in regard to your view that true Pashtuns have no focus on the plight of other Islamic people. You rage against the Uzbeks and the Xuighars and the others who have taken refuge in the Pashtun lands...

In fact he was involved in Pan Islamist moves against even China!! I will now provide neutral, STRONG, academic sources for this.

"As in India, Ahmad Shah tried to legitimize his activities in Turkestan by taking up the cause of endangered Muslims." page 63 of the same text by Jos JL Gommans called The Rise of the Indo Afghan Empire 1710-1780

Just as Shah Waliullah was a part of the Naqshbandiyaa political order in India (page 56)... Pan Islamism in that era stretched to Central Asia:

In a fascinating discussion that Dr. Gommans gives about the "Muslim Brotherhood of its Day"

Beginning under the discussion of Turan on page 61:

"In central Asia the Most Powerful representatives of Islam were the numerous sufi orders... amongst with Naqshbandiyaa was the most influentiall" Page 63...

.... "the political influence of these khojas (term used for a subsection of these Muslim networks)

"The Political influence of these Khojas recieved a serious blow during the Chinese annexation of East Turkestan. Some of them were incorporated into Chinese nobility... but by sending them to Beijing, they were deprived of all former attachments in the area. The leading figures were forced to flee to Khokan and Badakhshan. They appealed to the local Muslim rulers to take action, to mount a holy war, and to restore them in their former eminence. In order to counter these instigations, the Chinese authorities paid large amounts of cash and tea to enlist the help of the Muslim rulers to keep these refugee Khojas at bay."

So let us halt here... we now have refugee Muslims taking refuge in Badaskhan. LET US REPEAT THIS FOR YOU MASEED... WE HAVE MUSLIM REFUGEES TAKING REFUGE IN AN AFGHAN PROVINCE IN THE ERA OF AHMAD SHAH. HMMMMM, DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR????

And these Muslims were asking the Muslim brethren to aid them in resisting the imperial chinese. HMMMM, SOUND FAMILIAR MASEED?

Out comes the LION OF KANDAHAR, the true Ahmad Shah Abdali of history:

Once again, not my words, but the words of the esteemed professor himself:

"These Chinese annexation of eastern Turkisten and the perilous conditions of the Khojas posed an ideal challenge to the Durrani championship of Islam."

PAGE 65

And what did Ahmad Shah Durrani Abdali, God bless his soul do next? He took on an empire at the risk of his own people. All of the secularist atheist nationalists cannot even counter this or explain this risk he put Afghanistan into when, once again, according to the same source:

"In 1763, Ahmad Shah played the leading role in striving to marshall a United Islamic force to push the Manchus back into China."...

"he planned to send an army to stand between Kokand and Tashkent while he tried to raise enough military support to expel the invaders and to arrange a central asian embargo on Chinese trade. The sublime Durrani Shah also sent an embassy to Beijing to enter a plea on behalf of the Khojas, but the Chinese emperor, true to his own inherited ideal of world supremecy, mistook the embassy for a tribute mission, and a sign of surrender, so the embassy did not achieve its purpose. Page 65

SUBREFERENCE from primary source: Eichorn, Kolonialkampfe p 315-316 and in J Fletcher, "China and Central Asia 1368-1884 in the Chinese World Order from harvard university press pages 220, 359

"Thus reviewing the the Durrani claims in Turkistan, we may conclude that, although Ahmad Shah could not as openly and visibly claim Durrani suzerainty over Turkistan ... he nevertheless propagated his championship of Islam, as he had done in India." page 66

http://books.google.com/books?id=-2T...20shah&f=false

So Maseeda, the guests of the faithful Mehsuds and the faithful honorable, God fearing Wazirs and other unnamed tribes: The Uzbeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese, the Sudanese, the Malaysians, the Turks, all of them... are welcomed under the auspices of Ahmad Shah's Tarikh to Pashtun lands. The Khojas were forced out by the anti Islamic Chinese and they found refuge in Afghanistan under Ahmad Shah, and they openly asked his intervention on behalf of Islam. Ahmad Shah OPENLY sough to rally Muslims and to take on the Chinese Manchurian juggernaut at the risk of his own empire. This is Pashtunwali, this is Islam, and this is the rules of Ahmad Shah Nama. He is ours and purely ours. You can, by way of history, lay no claim to Ahmad Shah Abdali's legacy. He was in no way in the same lower caste and class as Achakzai, Karzai, Asfandyaar, Ghani, and the whole lot of them.

Now we have provided par excellence, without any certain doubt, the basis for Islamism in Pashtunlands and for the welcoming of those you deem outsiders. Those that welcome them and fight aggression are following purely in the example of Ahmad Shah as per his intervention on behalf of the refugee Khojas against the Chinese.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Information about Professor Gommans:

Supervisor:
Dr. Jos J.L. Gommans
Associated Professor (History of South Asia)
Kern Institute
Dept. South and Central Asian Studies
Leiden University
visiting address:
Nonnensteeg 1-3
Leiden - The Netherlands
mail address:
P.O. Box 9515
2300 RA Leiden
The Netherlands

http://www.tanap.net/content/univers...m?ArticleID=70

Seen here at his "ISI headquarters" (sarcasm) in the Netherlands, white guy professor. I request that if Maseed and his supporters have any issue with the firmly recorded history of Ahmad Shah Durrani's backing of Khoja Muslim clerics against Chinese incursions, that they write directly to the good professor and insult him there with the epitaphs of ISI lackey and Zealot Fundamentalist.

This day, we firmly won this discussion. It is over Maseed. Ahmad Shah was the quintessential Pashtun. If there was a single image one could put in the dictionary next to Pashtun, we all here, secularist, communist, capitalist, atheist, American, and muslim alike know that Ahmad Shah Abdali's picture would be right there. Basically, his actions against the Chinese, his character, his words, and his thoughts show that he would not go near Mr. Karzai with a 10 foot pole and that Islam was in his blood. This malarchy and BS about foreign fighters and Pashtuns looking out for their own cause is debunked. Pashtuns are Islam's heroes of the modern age, and Ahmad Shah welcomed the refugees and planned to organize a Pan Islamist incursion against the Manchu Chinese, putting his own Afghanistan at risk. Who today has risked their treasure for Muslim refugees to fight against Imperial aggression? Who today wills to allow outsider Muslims in as refugees? Pashtuns.

Case Closed. Game over.

[Toramana]

Ahmad Shah Baba was first and foremost a Pashtun/Afghan nationalist to the core---and a Muslim warrior to the same extent that as Mahmoud of Ghazna was---If the situation lended him the opportunity to tape Islam to expand his Afghan Empire, why not---But if it were the Khalifa of Islam to annex the territory of his Afghan Empire, he would have fought back with true Afghan zeal---

Same also did Mahmoud of Ghazna---will wage expansionist campaign into India in winters and into Central Asia in the north (against Turk Muslim brothers ) in summers...

So Akhwani fanatics don't need to re-invent him as Mullah Omar---It is too late ---too much has been written about him---and he is well known to the world as the first Pashtun to have established modern Afghanistan ....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Ahmad Shah Baba was first and foremost a Pashtun/Afghan nationalist to the core---and a Muslim warrior to the same extent that as Mahmoud of Ghazna was---If the situation lended him the opportunity to tape Islam to expand his Afghan Empire, why not---But if it were the Khalifa of Islam to annex the territory of his Afghan Empire, he would have fought back with true Afghan zeal---

Same also did Mahmoud of Ghazna---will wage expansionist campaign into India in winters and into Central Asia in the north (against Turk Muslim brothers ) in summers...

So Akhwani fanatics don't need to re-invent him as Mullah Omar---It is too late ---too much has been written about him---and he is well known to the world as the first person to have established modern Afghanistan ....

Suuuure. Deal with the evidence and the quotes. Not make believe. I know it riles you to understand that Baba would not wear a red cap... and it even must have irritated you that the preserved letter from Istanbul notes Ahmad Shah's judgement on the Iranians having been served Nadir Quoli Beg as a punishment for breaking God and the Rasools law (his words, not mine).

Otherwise, your commentaries are useless meanderings to try and salvage a loss.