Karzai declaration of War

[thetruth]

Karzai, in calling for permanent occupation of Afghanistan is according to definition, making an open declaration of war on the Afghan people. He like the Militant Communists that came before him does not appear to care about the bloodshed that will result from his antics.

Afghan Religious Ulema have already said that the participation in this Loya Jirga is against Islam, and harram even by these pre-selected individuals who do not represent Afghans at all.

In Islam, there can never be acceptance or toleration of foreign occupation, and it is for this reason that this pact that he discusses will only inflame the Afghan nation further. It may be that through this action of his, he will once again indirectly draw previous rivals together onto one platform, united against the occupation of their land by foreigners.


So, history records his open declaration tomorrow of further war upon Afghanistan which he supports, further US airstrikes, and bombing campaigns.


If anything, he has finally come clean with his intentions, and not covered them up.


Today, Hamid Karazai is the biggest enemy of Afghanistan like Shuja was, and Karzai even surpasses Najib now


He has severely miscalculated the situation as always.

[akbarkhan]

Karzai, in calling for permanent occupation of Afghanistan is according to definition, making an open declaration of war on the Afghan people. He like the Militant Communists that came before him does not appear to care about the bloodshed that will result from his antics.

Afghan Religious Ulema have already said that the participation in this Loya Jirga is against Islam, and harram even by these pre-selected individuals who do not represent Afghans at all.

In Islam, there can never be acceptance or toleration of foreign occupation, and it is for this reason that this pact that he discusses will only inflame the Afghan nation further. It may be that through this action of his, he will once again indirectly draw previous rivals together onto one platform, united against the occupation of their land by foreigners.


So, history records his open declaration tomorrow of further war upon Afghanistan which he supports, further US airstrikes, and bombing campaigns.


If anything, he has finally come clean with his intentions, and not covered them up.


Today, Hamid Karazai is the biggest enemy of Afghanistan like Shuja was, and Karzai even surpasses Najib now


He has severely miscalculated the situation as always.

1. There is such a thing as Afghan Ulema? Boy, that's news to me.

2. Kharzai & Co will witness their day, the old tribal way.

[thetruth]

1. There is such a thing as Afghan Ulema? Boy, that's news to me.

2. Kharzai & Co will witness their day, the old tribal way.

In regards to the Afghan Ulema or religious clergy, I got that information from this article and the quotes by Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...-forces-23005/

Karzai's ill intentions are uniting all Afghans on the same page against him and the US occupation and war.

It will probably be the only achievement of his, unintentionally.

[akbarkhan]

In regards to the Afghan Ulema or religious clergy, I got that information from this article and the quotes by Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...-forces-23005/

Karzai's ill intentions are uniting all Afghans on the same page against him and the US occupation and war.

It will probably be the only achievement of his, unintentionally.

Iqtidar i Islami, laugh out loud! To hell with their Iqtidar!

Where were they in the last 10 years? Sleeping with toothless Afghan women, high on hashish and hard on American supplied blue magic pills?

[thetruth]

but is the reference of the Afghan religious clerics true? Who is he referring to?

guess when the tide is in favor of those who oppose occupation and want independence and freedom, everyone else wants to join with them


what do you think about this coallition of Dostum and Mohaqiq and their boycotting of this fake jirga?

[akbarkhan]

what do you think about this coallition of Dostum and Mohaqiq and their boycotting of this fake jirga?

To keep it short and simple, it is like a dog chasing its tail.

US is playing a clever game here, the illegitimacy of this Jirga is obvious so they are trying to give legitimacy to give new faction by way of proxy. For example, Afghans believe this Jirga is fake, if we create a new faction that boycotts the fake Jirga then the simpletons will take this faction's stance as a honourable act of virtue which then gives them a degree of credibility.

I agree with your earlier comment, in that Kharzai and US are checkmating themselves by doing all this. The end of all this will be an all out war, a bottom up revolution which will begin the end of US hegemony.

[Soldat_Amir]

Truth, I guess you have zero knowledge of the current situation.

Of course Nato forces will remain, and Of course Karzai will declare war, but the war is not declared on your normal Afghan, this is a war between ISI(Taliban) and Afghanistans survival.

Obviously, your brain is intoxicated with Militant Islamist trash, you wouldnt know, that Afghanistan is bombarded by constant suicide bombers, who 9 out of 10 times are Pakistani Nationals.

TO be fair and honest, America/Nato should have never invaded Afghanistan, they should have occupied Pakistan and brought hell upon the ISI and its Jihadist networks that has brought Afghanistan so backwards.

Just the other day, a mother and her daughter were stoned to death, by the same Islamists, who raped little boys and then send them as suicide bombers.

I just received a call from a friend of mine in Kabul, he told me the other day, suicide bombers were caught, and four of them turned out to be Pakistani Nationals.

Its war, and I hope Nato clears Afghanistan of all Anti state Militants, and send them to their Hooris in Jannat, they do not belong in this world.

Long live a Progressive and strong Afghanistan

[Soldat_Amir]

I bet you 10000,00000 pounds, AKberkhan,Barakzai,Zmarak, Alchemist, Imran Khan, Truth and all the other Jihadist sympathizers would never send their own children to these Suicide bombing camps, but prefer to have them go through free Western secular education instead.

This is the problem.

[thetruth]

Soldat

Why don't you go and fight the Taliban

Get off your Facebook and go there

[Toramana]

It is nice Karzai having declared war on terrorists who have made the life of Afghans/Pashtuns miserable.

[Alchemist]

I bet you 10000,00000 pounds, AKberkhan,Barakzai,Zmarak, Alchemist, Imran Khan, Truth and all the other Jihadist sympathizers would never send their own children to these Suicide bombing camps, but prefer to have them go through free Western secular education instead.

This is the problem.

Inshallah I ll raise my children in Afghanistan... to hell with the west.

Western civilization has hit rock bottom son.


Western secular education? What a farce! People are dumber than a sack of cow manure here!

[Alchemist]

It is nice Karzai having declared war on terrorists who have made the life of Afghans/Pashtuns miserable.

Wishe he had the guts to declare war on ISI and CIA and NATO who have taken more lives of Pashtuns than pashtuns themselves...And thats a fact which you can put in your pipe and smoke it.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I bet you 10000,00000 pounds, AKberkhan,Barakzai,Zmarak, Alchemist, Imran Khan, Truth and all the other Jihadist sympathizers would never send their own children to these Suicide bombing camps, but prefer to have them go through free Western secular education instead.

This is the problem.

Once again, its not an issue of whether Soldat and Barakzai approve. We can approve or not approve. As Dr. Pape's work shows, the suicide bombing has a direct correlation with US military and ISAF forces presence. I could disapprove of it all day long and they wouldnt stop. Rather, its your sustained support for the presence of foreign occupiers that has driven the rate of suicide bombing through the roof.

And as stated, its you that refuses to live in North Korea, China, Vietnam, or even serve in the ANA. Yet your impetus is to put a completely foreign system onto the Afghan people.

below were the citations and the proof at this prior link undergoing this discussion:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...25/index2.html

Ill hand you reading assignments, from a non expert (me) on the topics of war and such things.

Regarding the religious debate and the Islamic judicial references, here you go. The debate centers around the fatwas of Qardawi. This should be a reasonable source since SXE decries wahhabits and peninsulaists (Saudi scholars), and Qardawi falls into neither of these camps:

http://www.meforum.org/530/must-inno...ic-debate-over
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_al-Qaradawi


Folks here are creating a false dichotomy, in my opinion, between the Russian Afghan War and the American Afghan War.

1. Paul Refsdahl, in his documentary on the Taliban, seen as the most unbiased piece done, comments that the Muj fighters in the 80s had equipment up to par and that Commander Dauran and his fighters had old weaponry.

2.
Now despite my respect for SXE and Randolph, I must present the reason I disagree with their non evidence based assessments. Their conclusions are not at all driven by actual ground level metrics.

The dramatic assymetry between the insurgents and the occupier force can be demonstrated by the number of Lee Enfield rifles being discovered on the battlefield. The Lee Enfield is a British Era weapon to drive home the point.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/arti...-1-22-2009.asp

If one does not want to accept strategypage's musings, then the NY Times assessment should suffice:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...an-gun-locker/

"Insurgents in Helmand Province seem to have used bolt-action rifles more than in many regions of Afghanistan. Whether this indicates a pressure on the supply of assault rifles and their ammunition or a preference for the longer effective ranges of Lee-Enfield and Mosin-Nagant rifles is not clear. But the longer range of bolt-action rifles compared with assault rifles, and their relative abundance in Helmand Province, is a reason this particular acreage of Afghanistan has a reputation as being plagued by a more dangerous set of Afghan marksmen, and even a few snipers, as seen in this video. For those who have been under fire in Helmand, finding that a large fraction of captured rifles are Lee-Enfields or Mosin-Nagants is not surprising. This battalion’s battlefield collections fit its Marines’ experiences on patrol."

Lest Randolph or SXE attempt to harp on the increased accuracy of the Lee Enfield, I would say that they are sorely missing the point.

Here is an example from video, via the Times of the sort of tactic they are advocating. One must remember that in the Russian-Afghan war, AK47s abounded and they decreased accuracy. Initially, the rapid fire sequence would cause the muzzle to rise and point to the sky in a display of idiocy (this occured per the conservational laws of physics and is the reason why the M16 has a rapid fire sequence that terminates after a few bullets), and the single shot itself is also not as accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_rise

Nonetheless, a generation of fighters was trained on these easy to manufacture, easily imitated, and cheap weapons.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/...at-matter.html

This video more than adequately proves the point the strategist makes in the first article:

"In the last year, NATO units in southern Afghanistan estimate there has been a 25 percent increase in sniping incidents. This is not seen as a major danger. NATO troops wear protective bests and helmets that can stop bullets fired at long range, making it very frustrating for the Taliban shooters trying to hit a distant target in a vulnerable spot."

Despite the fact that 1 in a group of say 100 Talibs is sniper trained, he merely was able to cause his American counterpart (where a majority are trained to fire with accuracy) a shoulder injury with a good shot.

Why are 99/100 Talibs not sniper quality? Anyone who has ever fired a pistol and travelled to Afghanistan knows the answer to that question. There is no Wal Mart Wana or Wal Mart Kandahar with massive rounds of ammo available cheaply. The cost of ammo to waste to utilize in training is just too great in such settings. The gunsmiths of dar adam would not able to and are not able to churn out the sufficient number of bullets to ensure this level of lethal accuracy training. The average number of shots fired by an American trained policeman in city violence situations is 3-4 rounds.

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles...ing/combat.htm

So we have an evidence based situation: The Talib is equipped with an AK and possibly a Lee Enfield. The AK is less accurate, and the old AKs lack the rapid fire sequence that terminates and allows for some level of increased accuracy.

3. Why does the phemomena occur? Let us consult evidence. The doyen of suicide terror analysis is Robert Pape, of Univ Of Chicago. He wrote a text that is now a classic, called Dying to Win, consulted by Peters, Bergen, Scheuer, and a host of others. He presents a lucid set of conclusions regarding this phenomena and why it occurs.

SXE and Randolph have to conclusively prove the following motif for me to even take their argument at face value:

War being won ---> Taliban resort to suicide attacks ---> now war being lost because of bad strategy (i.e. namely suicide attacks and this strategy could have been averted. This is their assertion... but there is little evidence to back up the claim.

Instead, Pape is arguing the following, with evidence basis, rather effectively:

Vastly assymetric warfare (e.g. Afghanistan) ---> stunning losses and devastation ---> adoption of bare bones approach (Lee Enfield rifes) ---> suicide attacks included in arsenal ---> outcome pending

http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=SOlnH3f_dXwC

Here are some of Pape's evidence based assessments:

"Ninety-five percent of suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of coherent campaigns organized by large militant organizations with significant public support."

"Despite their rhetoric, democracies–including the United States–have routinely made concessions to suicide terrorists. Suicide terrorism is on the rise because terrorists have learned that it’s effective."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pape

Here is an interview where Pape goes into some actual metrics:

http://www.theamericanconservative.c.../jul/18/00017/

Here is a scholarly review by Pape, and his commentary is:
"The main reason that suicide terrorism is growing is
that terrorists have learned that it works."

Pape's conclusions regarding the causal factor:?

"It is a last-resort strategy of the weak; its purpose to use one’s body as a deadly weapon in order to coerce the opposing society to pressure its government into changing military policies. The attacks succeed not only by destroying their targets, but by convincing the opposing

society that it is vulnerable to more attacks
in the future."

More evidence:

"The data in Dying to Win, covering 1980 to 2001,

documented 315 suicide attacks in all. By the summer of 2008 the total had grown to over 1,550. In 2001, there were 50 attacks; in 2008, there were 500. Iraq is the largest campaign, with 856 attacks; Afghanistan comes next, with 316. The popularity of suicide terrorism is growing as a result of ground operations, Pape maintains: 89 percent of all suicide terrorism around the world since the Iraq war is the direct result of troops on the ground. His data show that of nearly 1,600 suicide attacks, 95 percent are against

all foreign occupying forces, with 90 percent of those against just U.S. forces. “This is a very bad thing,” he believes"

And the stunning conclusion regarding the Pashtun regions???:

"Today, Pape is focused on Afghanistan and, again, the key objective must be to reduce land forces. He sees the rise of attacks throughout Afghanistan as the direct result of the United States’ increasing
occupation of the Pashtun homeland. For the first couple of years of our occupation of Afghanistan, we stayed in Kabul. Then we began occupying
the rest of the country in stages, reaching southern and eastern Afghanistan in late 2005, and bringing on a surge of suicide bombings. “As we move to the border of Pakistan, we’re seeing more of
the same,” he warns. “Seventy-five percent of attacks have been where there are Pakistani ground troops—our surrogate (PAGE 7).”

* Special note- Pape's EVIDENCE based, well cited work devastates the Pakistani conspiracy theories with that one sentence alone... the MAJORITY of suicide attacks in pashtun regions have hit in the Pashtun belt, across the border at Pakistani posts.

This correlates closely with Matt Hoh's assessment on the Afghan side of the border:

"Suicide attacks, IEDs, military and civilian dead or wounded—all rise commensuratelywith eachincrease in foreign troop or Afghan government presence. We misunderstand many ofthecauses of support for the Taliban. They didn’t wear sandwich boards or hand out pamphlets to win people. They are the Pashtuns. Most don’t want to rule the country. They just want to get rid of the occupiers."

The causal force behind this phenomena is echoed in Barkawi's of Cambridge's essay:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...424785830.html

"Asymmetric warfare is the result of conflict between the powerful and the powerless, reinforcing a cycle of violence."

The bottom line?

The phenomena of suicide attacks in the NWFP and Afghanistan is a modality of assymetric warfare brought on by the gross imbalance between the occupier power and the occupied people (its the effect, not the cause - per Barkawi); its effectiveness, per the hard evidence, is proven in instances of accomplishing short term goals (per Pape) but not long term strategic goals or ones that would cause the power on the recieving end to abandon crucial priorities (per Pape); its place in Islamic jurisprudence is under debate with Saudi scholars actually CONDEMNING it and Qardawi stating its acceptable nature in occupied settings. It is not a Pakistani tactic, and was not invented by Pakistanis... and the Pakistani proxies soldiers themselves wearing uniforms have been on the recieving end of the majority of attacks in the Pashtun belt (Pape per the Carnegie paper).

[Alchemist]

^ You should give it to him the way CNN and BBC give it to him... with sensation.

"Oh God...look at these charade bodies of dead Pashtuns! Their house was bombed by a drone! Oh my God...look at this 5 year old orphan boy crying...and this 12 year old ... he is not even talking or showing any emotions! He wants revenge! 10 men have left the village to join the insurgency...they say they are willing to die to kill the people that bombed their village! I can't describe the horror..the horror!" ...some cheesy lines. some fake tears...and soldout khamir is sold.

"Data...professor...charts...graphs". If that was his cup of tea he'd be professor Soldout Khamir working for the Queen of England.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I bet you 10000,00000 pounds, AKberkhan,Barakzai,Zmarak, Alchemist, Imran Khan, Truth and all the other Jihadist sympathizers would never send their own children to these Suicide bombing camps, but prefer to have them go through free Western secular education instead.

This is the problem.

Also once again, secular atheism is a far off remote camp from communist atheism. But you support the latter, which is a purge. And as noted, tis you that needs to send your children to Kim Jong Il for a solid education! For that matter, China's educational system is advancing... I see many changes for you to prosper there. Also please enlist in the ANA and send us pictures... Mr. Karzai desparately needs young new recruits.

Instead, I will cite you two historians of note that show what we "stand for" is more indigenous than what you do:

"In reality, the traditional way of life in villages has changed little by Taliban's rule. The situation of Afghans in the countryside controlled by the Taliban has improved because of increased peace and security, giving them the opportunity to rebuild after two decades of war."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm

From Kawun Kakar, anti Taliban historian and Afghan government official.

However, my most supreme quote, that the rural masses were more in line with what the Taliban were (though not exactly) and were antagonistic to what Najib was derives from local Afghan historian extroadinaire, AFG21:

"I think that all Afghans are against this acupation, they only difrence is that some want a difrent resistantce than the taliban, we have to look at our history and see, when the russian where in Afghanistan peopel didn't care who the person against the russian were, if they were against them they were given money and weapons, but most peopel didn't realise that those peopel the so called "mujhahidin" wanted only power and money, becuase the same "mujhahidin" who were against the Kafir USSR are now sitting and letting 100 difrent Kafir nation in to Afghanistan. And now you peopel say it doesn't matter what the taliban are doing or what they have done in the past, they are against the accupiers so they are good. But if the Americans leave and the Taliban take power a lot of peopel are afraid that they would bring the same rule like they once did in the 90's. And some say the rural peopel are in favor, afcours they are in favor of taliban they don't know any better, they have the same mentality, like women is not allowed to go to work or to school. We peopel who have traveld to the WEst and have seen the world must realise that Taliban is not the solution. I am only pro taliban if they respect human rights and not do the same mistakes like in the past. But there is no gaurantee that they wouldn't do it.

So if some Afghans don't like taliban that doesn't mean that they love Americans and NATO, it is just the way taliban is fighting and what they did in the past. Because of that peopel have suspicion."

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...42/index8.html

"The bigest problem whith Afghanistan is. Is that each time when Afghanistan gets a chance to develope or to change, our neighbours manipulate this rural peopel and set them against our goverment. They manipulate them to think that how they leave now is the only good way, not that they say to them be extrime they are extrime, the mindset of our rural peopel didn't change since 1929. I know what I have said in that other post. I have leaved in Khost in a village, I know how rural peopel are. Like when Amanullah Khan wanted to devolope Afghanistan. England manipulated them to raise against him, to say that he is a kafir and wants to destroy Islam. But we all know that is noncense becuase his Laws were all based on Sharia, only some were not really Islamic. Becuase of his deprature Afghanistan was frozen in time. Only the cities changed and also the cities where majority were Farsiwan, they had some contact whithe the modern world. In the 70s the qhalk and parchamies were not the most honest or the most good peopel on this planet, but they were the reaction to this 50 years of sleeping. They wanted Afghanistan to wake up and to devolope, But again the rural mass didn;t want that. The rural mass was not stronger than the goverment now, the goverment could have controled them but our neighbours saw that if Afghanistan become strong this will be not so good for there countries. Pakistan didn´t want to give the pashtun lands to Afghanistan and Iran didn´t want to have a secular Commie like country as aneighbour. So they gave wapons and money to them. This kind of thing is now whith Taliban they where traind in Pakistan recived money from the US/Arabs/Pakis to fight and weaken us. I know that our chance to have a secular goverment is gone. But even if there will come an Islamic based goverment that can alowe the peopel to devolope and after time to change and become a better country, I would accept that. The problems where actually not completly whith the rurals. Most of the modern Afghan leaders wanted to change to fast, and you are right about that we have to change our country in our own way, but taliban don't want any change.
I am just sick and tired of Taliban and there stupidity, there waghshie way of live, I want culture, education, devolopment. I want that when peopel think of Afghanistan they would think about a beautiful country whith smart and educated peopel in stead of bearded apes who thinks that if you watch tv,listen to music, alowe women in public space whitout a burqa, waire jins or other western clothes, its a schame and haram. And do you know way the rural peopel and taliban have so much in comon, they are both besiwad and folow more old cultural habits than Islam. And culture must change. Pashtunwali is not writen in stone, Pashtunwali is not din, like any onter culture if its not gona evolve and change whith time it will be destoyd and forgoten.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...3/index12.html

And you know what Soldat? I really respect AFG21 for admitting these inevitable truths. I can respect someone deeply, even if I disagree with them, if they have a grasp on the reality. As far as I know AFG21 is not an ISI agent or a Pakistani. But he doesnt go to the lengths taj andersen and these ANP communists type do to make up this narrative that the Afghan masses loved najib and welcomed him and were comfortable with these changes. Rather, he admits that the greater mass stood behind the revolt.