Militant Communists responsbile for Afghanistan wars

[abassinafghan]

its always amusing how little kids , who thinks because they can write and read , belives they are soooooooooooo much ahead , and knowing everything because they heard it some where and read it on the internet, and then they start to spin their day dreams .

first of all just to say oh its all " the " communists fault is total bull**** ,

learn first what a communist is or a marxist is , and then judge if the people were communists or not .

2. there claims which are total redicioulous regarding daoud khan , he was anti paki as much as it gets , and pushed the pashtunistan matter is much as he could .

all this so called "muslims " aka masab and deen frosh , who worked for the isi were expelled or imprisoned by amniat , so to say he was any how friends , with ahmad shah massoud , hekmatyar or rabbani which were back then supported by the pakis to destablize afg is just stupid and not true.

the main reason why he was killed were , that in his last days out of fear he imprisoned alot of khalqian and parchamian , due to the slow progression of landreforms and the overall situation which didnt improved as he promised there some kind of unrest , and he feared that the same people with which he cooperated would also topple him . and that was the reason why the coup detat took place and he was killed in battle , he was indeed a brave men .

what followed is along story of many actors , local like international , who played their game on us . as i said before in afg , no one is to blame , and all are to blame. no one will ever admit that they did wrong or mistakes . and now they look for people to blame to cover their own misdeeds.

@ punjabi

as far as i know pakistan was founded by a secularist , and is a secular country with common law and british structure no shariat implementet , besides to this heavy shirk is commited , because i dont hear no one complaining about ali jinnah statues , no one complaining about british law , no one complaining that first defence minister and founder of the isi was a british !!!! let alone the luchak double game and interaction into our internal affairs .and the durrand questiom

@ al hanif

and as far as i know also algeria or morroco are secular countries , there is also no shariat practised .


so before talking to us AFGHANS teaching us OUR history by your not existing knowledge , get the f***** out of this board and cover your sister and teach here proper islam .


what have become this forum ? ar dalaw ou dawous rawan dey mushta delta lecture rakawi. where all this trolls come from ?

[thetruth]

what is amusing and absurd is that some wish to ignore the fact that it was secularist/militant communists who assassinated Daud Khan. A fool here is suggesting that the anti-Soviet Mujahideed killed him. Now, why do the so-called nationalists ignore this?

This is absurd.

These false nationalists were never really nationalists. They just wanted to impose a foreign ideology upon Afghans, same as what Karzai is doing today.

The results will always be a backlash from the masses.

[thetruth]

you also might as well say that these secular militant Communists were in fact ISI agents, maybe Hamid Guls henchmen?

If you can show evidence for this, that would be a start.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I guess the Peshawar Seven, Taliban, Hekmatyar, Rabbani, Mullah Omar, were all communists and secularists?

You guys are children with no knowledge of what your talking about.

Was the Shami Pir a Secularist too?

Its the other way round, when ever Afghanistan brings in a modernist, and progressive leader, its your social rejects from the Madrassahs, the Islamists, the Jahil, who start opening yourself to be funded to destroy it.

Lets take the example of Sher Ahmad Maladani of Herat, he was a Jihadi like you and the camel riders from Arabia, he was angry, females in Herat were getting education, and started a program whereby he mass murdered many innocent school girls, and declared Jihad on the secularists.

You see, throughout Afghan history, its been the Jahiltub ones, who have opened themselves to be funded to overthrow any progressive government.

Its the other way round, its you guys who received funds, weapons and training from OTHER COUNTRIES TO OVERTHROW AFGHANISTAN government in the past.

Its funny, how you blame Secularists for everything, yet you live in your cosy bed in the secular west.

This is why, nobody takes nor supports what you say and do seriously? you hide behind Islam to protect yourself from criticism.

Show me a single secularist in Afghanistan who uses young boys, rapes them and then brainwashes them to blow themselves up?

go on, prove to me, that a Secularist in Afghanistan has done that?

Show me a single Secularists who stones women and young girls in public and declares his love for 72 virgins while using other peoples children to strap on a suicide vest and blow himself up in a market?

Show me a single Afghan Secularist, who dances around, dress as an Arab, speaking like an Arab, with someones head in his hands, declaring his love for Paradise and killing kaffirs.

Show me a single Afghan Secularist who supports bombings of markets, hospitals and on police and army, while hiding in Pakistan?

If you Jihadis hate Secularism so much, then piss off to Saudi Arabia or Somalia, I hear its beautiful at this time of year

You guys, are the ones that ran off to Pakistan and America, begged for weapons and boy-love just to protect your backward way of life, just you guys, living in the west, shows your hypocrasy and values, I end my comment here, and will no longer waste my time on a French Algerian, a Paki Dhaal muncher sat in the Secular UK, loves pork eating whisky drinking Jinnah Pakistan, and the rest of the Talib supporters who probably have not even fired a single shot.

Brother,

I dont think the textual evidence of history supports your claim. Rather it supports that the radicalization took place as a response to the communist revolution.

1. Take for instance your reference to Maldani:

"There are various accounts of what triggered off the violence in Herat. Sher Ahmad Maladani was there at the time and later commanded a local band of mujahedin – Muslim fighters against the Communists and the Russians. He said that the peasants in an outlying village, incensed by a decision of the local Communists to force their daughters to school, rose up, killed the Communists, killed the girls for good measure, and marched on the city. Others said that the rising took place on orders from émigrés in Pakistan, who had planned for a countrywide rebellion. Some said that the rising was led by mutinous soldiers from the 17th division, the local Afghan army garrison. Still others said it was stirred up by agents from Iran."

Meaning that had the Russian forced intervention not occured, such a response would not even had to have been incurred on the people. Its what Central Intelligence calls blow back.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...anistan-part-i

The ironic twist is that Ahmad Maldani works for.... wait for it.... wait for it....wait for it:

http://wireupdate.com/wires/19894/tw...n-afghanistan/

"The bodies of the dead Germans were found in the southern part of the Salang Pass, which is a large mountain pass which connects northern Afghanistan and Kabul, the nation’s capital, provincial police chief Brigadier General Sher Ahmad Maldani told Pajhwok Afghan News."

So it looks as if the secularists rather fancy Mr. Maldani!

2. Now, regarding the the "reforms" one has to account for the fact that there are two possibilities in each of these events:


"Amanullah’s views on women’s role in society were not a response to widespread societal demands; rather they were infl uenced primarily by his in- laws (the highly intellectual Tarzi family) and by unfolding events in the region. Amanullah’s gender policies, however, were completely divorced from the social realities of his extremely conservative, primarily tribal, and geo graph i cally remote country. Thus, under his father- in- law Prime Minister Mahmud Tarzi’s tutelage, he undertook an ambitious and

controversial program meant to transform Af ghan i stan into a modern state in the same mold as Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s Turkey."

Reference:
http://www.ucpress.edu/content/chapters/11529.ch01.pdf

By Shirin Burki (page 2)

The author goes on to point out, astutely:

Amanullah’s government began by emphasizing secular- based (that is, non- madrassa) education and established the fi rst primary school for girls, Masturat School, in 1921 in Kabul, under the patronage of Queen Soraya.

From 1920 to 1927, two primary schools and one middle school for girls were established in Kabul, with an estimated 700 students. These numbers, however, suggest that despite strong encouragement by the Amir, most Afghans were reluctant to send their daughters to obtain what was characterized as a secular education. Furthermore,

the establishment of girls’ schools was limited to urban areas such as Kabul and Herat and thus failed to benefit the provinces."

So the evidence shows that it was not a selected few mullahs that instigated this. Rather, these forced from the outside reforms were not something that the Afghan people en masse wanted put on them.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/05...ouse-page-you/

As we can see in her commentary here, Burki falls into the secular, hate Pakistan crowd and is merely reporting the truth about history.

3. Regarding other issues with land reforms, a completely separate issue that the communists harped on:

In:

Insurgents, terrorists, and militias: the warriors of contemporary combat By Richard H. Shultz, Andrea J. Dew on page 167

"The PDPA policies for governing Afghanistan, however, proved to be impracticle and alienated the rural population. Some of the PDPA's agricultural policies for example, clashed with the traditional tribal practices of land ownership and use. Moreover attempts by the PDPA to enforce land and labor reform on the rural tribes quickly resulted in a widespread violent rebellion in the provinces.."

The US, State Department independently confirms this history:

"Opposition to the Marxist government emerged almost immediately. During its first 18 months of rule, the PDPA brutally imposed a Marxist-style "reform" program, which ran counter to deeply rooted Afghan traditions. In addition, thousands of members of the traditional elite, the religious establishment, and the intelligentsia were imprisoned, tortured, or murdered. Conflicts within the PDPA also surfaced early and resulted in exiles, purges, imprisonments, and executions."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm

Dr. Amstutz confirms this in his text: Afghanistan, the First Five Years of Soviet Occupation:

page 239 reads:

"So instead of winning the support of the landless peasents, the Taraki Amin regimes caused agrarian chaos and misery...The Marxists had expecte that their land reform program would gain widespread rural support. However, just the opposite occured. Much of the armed rebellion that broke out in 1978 was related to land reform. The peasantry provided the resistance with its MOST enthusiastic support."

http://books.google.com/books?id=RUS...page&q&f=false

Indian Author Nijjir, independently confirms this:

"But friction arose between the two factions, and their Marxist reform programs sparked major rebellions in the countryside in 1979."

http://books.google.com/books?id=xQM...page&q&f=false

4. Regarding the popularity of the people's portion of the uprising, Journey Man Films, which also published one of the only pro soviet, or soviet imbed films from the 1980s (hence their lack of bias) provided us this:

Afghan Jihad - Afghanistan - YouTube[/URL]

6 minutes in is when the discussion of land reforms occurs.

9 minutes 54 seconds in, shows the direct conflict with an Afghan tribesmen regarding the communists forced anti religious ideologies

12.21 SHOWS THE ACTUAL AFGHAN ARMY SWITCHING SIDES, COMMITTING MUTINY, AND KILLING THEIR COMMUNIST LEADERS.... it shows the actual footage of the Afghan Russian supplied armies that mutinied.

13.35 shows that half of the 80,000 conscripts deserted them..

Regarding your request for actual evidence of secularist or communist brutality and killing, sure here is a great one:

By Christopher M. Andrew, Vasili Mitrokhin

http://books.google.com/books?id=4eS...page&q&f=false

PAGE 409

"Najibullah sometimes executed prisoners himself. His preferred method, according to survivors of his prisons, was to beat his victims to the ground, and then kick them to death."

5. Regarding secularists dealing with dancing boys (hermaphrotides):

ANP hejhragano party ,,,,,,hejhra dancing - YouTube[/URL]

Regarding the abuse of little boys in general, that is multiplied STATUS POST TALIBAN, per this documentary by Najibullah Qureshi about the Bacha Bazi issues:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tc/script.html

"NARRATOR: Najibullah had returned to investigate reports Afghan boys are vulnerable to being sexually abused by powerful men who have brought back an ancient practice. Banned under the Taliban and still illegal under Afghan law, it's called bacha bazi. Translation, "boy play"."

Regarding it being a certain ban, and not just one on paper, it was termed a "comeback" under the Karzai regime:

An ancient tradition banned by the Taliban is now experiencing a comeback in Afghanistan. It’s the practice of “bacha bazi” or ‘boy for play’

6. Regarding general deaths by secularist and atheists, once again, the data and numbers dont support your contention:

http://www.rissc.jo/docs/bodycount_final.pdf

Here is the center's philosophy, but regardless of the affilation, the author has very strong academic credentials.

http://www.aalalbayt.org/en/index.html

and a discussion about the rebuttal by a Yale Divinity School Professor that discusses how, even if the numbers are inaccurate and some numbers added to the Muslim slaughters by including the the numbers from the Ottoman march across Eurasia, it doesnt do much to redeem the Western Christian world.

http://www.yale.edu/faith/ne/documen...ounts.Volf.pdf

"the results: Our findings show that, using the entire data set for the period 0-2008, politically and religiously motivated violence has cost between 449.38 million and 708.61 million lives. The Christian civilization’s share of this is the largest with between 119.32 million and 236.56 million victims (median 177.94 million). In second place is the Antitheist civilization which has contributed with a median figure of 125.29 million deaths. The Sinic civilization is third with 107.92 million deaths (median). Fourth is the Buddhist civilization with ca. 87.95 million deaths. Fifth is the Primal-Indigenous civilization with 45.56 million deaths. Sixth is the Islamic civilization with 31.94 million deaths. Finally, seventh and last, is the Indic civilization with just under 2.39 million deaths.

The author Naveed Sheikh, sounds more like a secularist than an Islamist:

http://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleun...iew%202007.pdf

His credentials are impeccable

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Bla bla in the end, we secularist will win like we always do, hahahaha. :P

Wrong brother... it depends on how and when you define the end....

"–Libya: The unconstitutional Obama-Clinton-McCain-Graham-led NATO war on Libya seems bound to make North Africa a mujahedin paradise from Mauritania to the Suez Canal. Colonel Gaddafi, Tunisia’s Ben Ali, Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak, and the current Algerian regime were long the reliable if bloody-and-brutal bulwark against an effective Islamist movement in North Africa. With Ben Ali and Mubarak gone and Gaddafi on the ropes, only the Algerians remain, and they — with more discreet Moroccans, Mauritanians, and Chadians — are signaling in every way possible that the U.S.-French-British-UN crusade against Libya is going to yield an enormous Islamist victory, but so far to no avail. The interventionists Obama, Cameron, and Sarkozy seem to think that they know far better than their little Third-World brothers — they are Muslims, after all — and are content to wage the war and wait for what they have determined will be the inevitable triumph of secular democracy across North Africa. Indeed, so confident are the interventionists that the Libyan rebels are true-blue democrats that the French are air-dropping arms to the resistance’s Islamist-dominated military forces, even as the latter are cleaning out several of Gaddafi’s enormous arsenals of modern weaponry and reinforcing themselves with veteran fighters by opening Gaddafi’s prisons. If mindless wishing for the best can make it so, the West will not suffer from the Libyan war. If reality and history have their way, however, it is best to start battening down the hatches."

- Michael Scheuer, Former Head of Alec Station, CIA BIn ladin Unit

Not to mention the rise of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt... the win of the Islamic party in Tunisia.

[thetruth]

[QUOTE]

I guess the Peshawar Seven, Taliban, Hekmatyar, Rabbani, Mullah Omar, were all communists and secularists?

Communists assassinated Daud Khan and murdered his entire family. This is a historical fact. Are you aware of that? Maybe according to your sources, those Afghan Communists were ISI agents of Hamid Gul? If so, please provide the evidence.

Show me a single Afghan Secularist, who dances around, dress as an Arab, speaking like an Arab, with someones head in his hands, declaring his love for Paradise and killing kaffirs.

Putting aside the racism, are you serious? Have you actually seen people dancing and holding a chopped head in their hands at the same time? Where has this occurred?

Show me a single Afghan Secularist who supports bombings of markets, hospitals and on police and army, while hiding in Pakistan?

Hamid Karzai, He also supports airstrikes and night raids on Afghan homes. Also, he supports US detention and torture of Afghan civilians.

If you Jihadis hate Secularism so much, then piss off to Saudi Arabia or Somalia, I hear its beautiful at this time of year

If you hate Muslims, then stop driving the car which runs on their OIL, and stop heating your home which also is tied to OIL. Live without electricity too since that is also tied to OIL, and also never fly a plane or sail on a ship since that too runs on OIL. OIL is the gold of the East, and was given to Muslims for a reason to thwart hegemonic designs.

[akbarkhan]

Thetruth & barakzaiabdali, you two are wasting your precious time with this kid.

@barakzaiabdali btw i enjoy reading your posts.

[thetruth]

I actually feel sorry for him. He is plagued with insecurity, identity crisis, and an inferiority complex, looking up to degenerate cultures, and down on superior ones.

He tries to paint a picture of Pashtuns as pagans and secular - a picture that does not exist.

[Soldat_Amir]

Brother,

I dont think the textual evidence of history supports your claim. Rather it supports that the radicalization took place as a response to the communist revolution.

1. Take for instance your reference to Maldani:

"There are various accounts of what triggered off the violence in Herat. Sher Ahmad Maladani was there at the time and later commanded a local band of mujahedin – Muslim fighters against the Communists and the Russians. He said that the peasants in an outlying village, incensed by a decision of the local Communists to force their daughters to school, rose up, killed the Communists, killed the girls for good measure, and marched on the city. Others said that the rising took place on orders from émigrés in Pakistan, who had planned for a countrywide rebellion. Some said that the rising was led by mutinous soldiers from the 17th division, the local Afghan army garrison. Still others said it was stirred up by agents from Iran."

Meaning that had the Russian forced intervention not occured, such a response would not even had to have been incurred on the people. Its what Central Intelligence calls blow back.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...anistan-part-i

The ironic twist is that Ahmad Maldani works for.... wait for it.... wait for it....wait for it:

http://wireupdate.com/wires/19894/tw...n-afghanistan/

"The bodies of the dead Germans were found in the southern part of the Salang Pass, which is a large mountain pass which connects northern Afghanistan and Kabul, the nation’s capital, provincial police chief Brigadier General Sher Ahmad Maldani told Pajhwok Afghan News."

So it looks as if the secularists rather fancy Mr. Maldani!

2. Now, regarding the the "reforms" one has to account for the fact that there are two possibilities in each of these events:


"Amanullah’s views on women’s role in society were not a response to widespread societal demands; rather they were infl uenced primarily by his in- laws (the highly intellectual Tarzi family) and by unfolding events in the region. Amanullah’s gender policies, however, were completely divorced from the social realities of his extremely conservative, primarily tribal, and geo graph i cally remote country. Thus, under his father- in- law Prime Minister Mahmud Tarzi’s tutelage, he undertook an ambitious and

controversial program meant to transform Af ghan i stan into a modern state in the same mold as Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s Turkey."

Reference:
http://www.ucpress.edu/content/chapters/11529.ch01.pdf

By Shirin Burki (page 2)

The author goes on to point out, astutely:

Amanullah’s government began by emphasizing secular- based (that is, non- madrassa) education and established the fi rst primary school for girls, Masturat School, in 1921 in Kabul, under the patronage of Queen Soraya.

From 1920 to 1927, two primary schools and one middle school for girls were established in Kabul, with an estimated 700 students. These numbers, however, suggest that despite strong encouragement by the Amir, most Afghans were reluctant to send their daughters to obtain what was characterized as a secular education. Furthermore,

the establishment of girls’ schools was limited to urban areas such as Kabul and Herat and thus failed to benefit the provinces."

So the evidence shows that it was not a selected few mullahs that instigated this. Rather, these forced from the outside reforms were not something that the Afghan people en masse wanted put on them.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/05...ouse-page-you/

As we can see in her commentary here, Burki falls into the secular, hate Pakistan crowd and is merely reporting the truth about history.

3. Regarding other issues with land reforms, a completely separate issue that the communists harped on:

In:

Insurgents, terrorists, and militias: the warriors of contemporary combat By Richard H. Shultz, Andrea J. Dew on page 167

"The PDPA policies for governing Afghanistan, however, proved to be impracticle and alienated the rural population. Some of the PDPA's agricultural policies for example, clashed with the traditional tribal practices of land ownership and use. Moreover attempts by the PDPA to enforce land and labor reform on the rural tribes quickly resulted in a widespread violent rebellion in the provinces.."

The US, State Department independently confirms this history:

"Opposition to the Marxist government emerged almost immediately. During its first 18 months of rule, the PDPA brutally imposed a Marxist-style "reform" program, which ran counter to deeply rooted Afghan traditions. In addition, thousands of members of the traditional elite, the religious establishment, and the intelligentsia were imprisoned, tortured, or murdered. Conflicts within the PDPA also surfaced early and resulted in exiles, purges, imprisonments, and executions."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm

Dr. Amstutz confirms this in his text: Afghanistan, the First Five Years of Soviet Occupation:

page 239 reads:

"So instead of winning the support of the landless peasents, the Taraki Amin regimes caused agrarian chaos and misery...The Marxists had expecte that their land reform program would gain widespread rural support. However, just the opposite occured. Much of the armed rebellion that broke out in 1978 was related to land reform. The peasantry provided the resistance with its MOST enthusiastic support."

http://books.google.com/books?id=RUS...page&q&f=false

Indian Author Nijjir, independently confirms this:

"But friction arose between the two factions, and their Marxist reform programs sparked major rebellions in the countryside in 1979."

http://books.google.com/books?id=xQM...page&q&f=false

4. Regarding the popularity of the people's portion of the uprising, Journey Man Films, which also published one of the only pro soviet, or soviet imbed films from the 1980s (hence their lack of bias) provided us this:

Afghan Jihad - Afghanistan - YouTube[/URL]

6 minutes in is when the discussion of land reforms occurs.

9 minutes 54 seconds in, shows the direct conflict with an Afghan tribesmen regarding the communists forced anti religious ideologies

12.21 SHOWS THE ACTUAL AFGHAN ARMY SWITCHING SIDES, COMMITTING MUTINY, AND KILLING THEIR COMMUNIST LEADERS.... it shows the actual footage of the Afghan Russian supplied armies that mutinied.

13.35 shows that half of the 80,000 conscripts deserted them..

Regarding your request for actual evidence of secularist or communist brutality and killing, sure here is a great one:

By Christopher M. Andrew, Vasili Mitrokhin

http://books.google.com/books?id=4eS...page&q&f=false

PAGE 409

"Najibullah sometimes executed prisoners himself. His preferred method, according to survivors of his prisons, was to beat his victims to the ground, and then kick them to death."

5. Regarding secularists dealing with dancing boys (hermaphrotides):

ANP hejhragano party ,,,,,,hejhra dancing - YouTube[/URL]

Regarding the abuse of little boys in general, that is multiplied STATUS POST TALIBAN, per this documentary by Najibullah Qureshi about the Bacha Bazi issues:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tc/script.html

"NARRATOR: Najibullah had returned to investigate reports Afghan boys are vulnerable to being sexually abused by powerful men who have brought back an ancient practice. Banned under the Taliban and still illegal under Afghan law, it's called bacha bazi. Translation, "boy play"."

Regarding it being a certain ban, and not just one on paper, it was termed a "comeback" under the Karzai regime:

An ancient tradition banned by the Taliban is now experiencing a comeback in Afghanistan. It’s the practice of “bacha bazi” or ‘boy for play’

6. Regarding general deaths by secularist and atheists, once again, the data and numbers dont support your contention:

http://www.rissc.jo/docs/bodycount_final.pdf

Here is the center's philosophy, but regardless of the affilation, the author has very strong academic credentials.

http://www.aalalbayt.org/en/index.html

and a discussion about the rebuttal by a Yale Divinity School Professor that discusses how, even if the numbers are inaccurate and some numbers added to the Muslim slaughters by including the the numbers from the Ottoman march across Eurasia, it doesnt do much to redeem the Western Christian world.

http://www.yale.edu/faith/ne/documen...ounts.Volf.pdf

"the results: Our findings show that, using the entire data set for the period 0-2008, politically and religiously motivated violence has cost between 449.38 million and 708.61 million lives. The Christian civilization’s share of this is the largest with between 119.32 million and 236.56 million victims (median 177.94 million). In second place is the Antitheist civilization which has contributed with a median figure of 125.29 million deaths. The Sinic civilization is third with 107.92 million deaths (median). Fourth is the Buddhist civilization with ca. 87.95 million deaths. Fifth is the Primal-Indigenous civilization with 45.56 million deaths. Sixth is the Islamic civilization with 31.94 million deaths. Finally, seventh and last, is the Indic civilization with just under 2.39 million deaths.

The author Naveed Sheikh, sounds more like a secularist than an Islamist:

http://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleun...iew%202007.pdf

His credentials are impeccable

You are just white washing one side of the conflict to support your claim that the Taliban were righteous and good.

You first start your comment by saying justifying Maladanis killings of innocent little girls by pointing the figures at the "forced education" program. Afghans need forced education, its the only way they will come out of the backward society and the lazyiness lifestyle they enjoy.

Then you go onto highlighting all these Western claims of how bad the communists/secularists were, but fail to mention how evil and twisted the mujdahideen were, how they bombed kabul with rockets, and how they killed looted and then started killing themselves.

Then you go onto calling Christian civilisations as bad etc etc, but live happy in one in America.

Bacha Bazi, was well known within the Taliban, Communistsm would of rid this from Afghan society, but they failed to do so, because the society itself enjoys playing with little boys. Taliban never stopped it, Taliban themselves enjoy a bit of boy love.

Why do you post a video of a dancing tranny as a way to insult my political views?

Shall I post the videos about Islamic sex slavery, the harems, the white women sold on the markets of the Islamic empire? How, Islamic laws allowed the purchase of sex slaves?

Tit for tat, if the Secular world was so bad, then you wouldnt be living in America Barakzai, you would be in Saudi or probably Somalia.

Your trying to paint Afghan society and especially Pashtuns in a very dim picture, because you have motives for it.

The radicalisation was not due to Communism, it was due to Pakistan/CIA meddling, they could never see progress in Afghanistan.

[Soldat_Amir]

I actually feel sorry for him. He is plagued with insecurity, identity crisis, and an inferiority complex, looking up to degenerate cultures, and down on superior ones.

I guess Islamic society is sooo superior and good, that's why its so backward, under developed and lacking any sense of progression. I am not insecure, I have an identity, and I find it quite amusing you call other cultures as dengerate, but your Islamic one as superior. I feel sorry for you.

Islamic culture is degenerate. Rape victims have to produce four male witnesses on the seen of the crime for the rape to be truthful, women who do not have sex with their husbands are cursed by angels throughout the night, the flying mule with a womans head(buraq)? stoning people to death on the streets(Jewish custom at the start), public lashings over minor crimes, such as even shaving your beard? floods, hurricanes, and earthquakes are all factors of god's bad mood on his followers? Non Muslims are subjected to pay a separate tax as they are seen as "dhimmis", rationality and progressive thinking is banned and replaced with laws that were established to govern barbaric Arabian tribes in the Desert, women are banned to vote, and even drive a car, they are to be forced to wear a Burqa, which is a pre pagan Arab clothing, you then have to visit Arabia and contribute to its imperialist economy, by kissing a black pagan stone and walking around it like blind Pagans worshipping the sun.

He tries to paint a picture of Pashtuns as pagans and secular - a picture that does not exist.

Pashtuns use to be Pagans, until Turks and Arabs forced them to become Muslims.

There are 1000s of secular Pashtuns, but its sad people like you kill them.

You try to paint a picture as if all Pashtuns are suicide bombing support jihadis.

Which you are wrong.

[NokiaWnW]

what is amusing and absurd is that some wish to ignore the fact that it was secularist/militant communists who assassinated Daud Khan. A fool here is suggesting that the anti-Soviet Mujahideed killed him. Now, why do the so-called nationalists ignore this?

This is absurd.

These false nationalists were never really nationalists. They just wanted to impose a foreign ideology upon Afghans, same as what Karzai is doing today.

The results will always be a backlash from the masses.

Inform yourself how Mujaheddins and Parchams shaked their hands for Daud Khan and later how Parchami figures and officers like general Ferozan supported many of the Mujaheddins against the Soviets. If you do not have the knowledge like the kiddies here than keep quite and learn from the rest of us.

Daud Khan’s ties with the Soviet Union , like his relations with Afghan communists, deteriorated during his five year presidency. This loosening of ties with the Soviet Union was gradual. Daud Khan’s shift to the right and realignment made the Soviets anxious but western observers noted that Daud Khan remained solicitous of Soviet interests and Afghanistan ‘s representative in the United Nations voted regularly with the Soviet Bloc or with the group of nonaligned countries. The Soviets remained by far Afghanistan ‘s largest aid donor and were influential enough to insist that no Western activity, economic or otherwise, be permitted in northern Afghanistan .
Daud Khan still favored a state-centered economy, and, three years after coming to power, he drew up an ambitious seven-year economic plan (1976-83) that included major projects and required a substantial influx of foreign aid. As early as 1974, Daud Khan began distancing himself from over-reliance on the Soviet Union for military and economic support. That same year, he formed a military training program with India , and opened talks with Iran on economic development aid. Daud Khan also turned to other oil-rich Muslim nations, such as Saudi Arabia , Iraq , and Kuwait , for financial assistance.

laughable!

He was anti-Pakistan but was not anti-Russian. He even invited Russians to Afghanistan like his followers. He tried to provoke Pakistan and organize a movement against Pakistan. Called 2 mio young Pashtuns to take arms and go for Pashtunistan. In return, Pakistan used Gulbuddin against Daud Khan and Kabul. Later, Mujaheddins and Parchamis, both hated Daud Khan and his central power, cooperated against him. Criminals like Massoud were part of that coup and later these people were able to keep their fightings against Soviets because of their thankful communist buddies. That coup was a special thing for the minorities who were mostly suppressed by the ethnocentric policy of the Musahiban family. Nothing changed to day. Pakistan is still using Taliban and other organizations to establish itself in Afghanistan and impose it´s orders in Kabul.

[Soldat_Amir]

I actually feel sorry for him. He is plagued with insecurity, identity crisis, and an inferiority complex, looking up to degenerate cultures, and down on superior ones.

He tries to paint a picture of Pashtuns as pagans and secular - a picture that does not exist.

Inform yourself how Mujaheddins and Parchams shaked their hands for Daud Khan and later how Parchami figures and officers like general Ferozan supported many of the Mujaheddins against the Soviets. If you do not have the knowledge like the kiddies here than keep quite and learn from the rest of us.

Also, you can include the likes of Shahnawaz Tanai(Communist), who joined forces with Hekmatyar(Mujahideen) in Pakistan to overthrow Najibullah.

One can see, what most ignore, that Pakistan was the root of these problems. They were arming both the Communists and the Mujahideen to keep Afghanistan unstable.

Yet this basement jihadi "Truth" cant quite stomach that.

Ask yourself, why did Hekmatyar seek shelter in a Shia country like Iran?

Why did the Mujahideen(Hekmatyar group) fight for the Secular Pro Western Azerbaijanis against the Armenians?

These people (barakzai) and co, do not understand and wont accept the fact, that outside meddling led the mess, not the people in government.

They fail to accept the crimes the mass murder and constant killings of intellectuals, professors and the banning of schools done by the Mujahideen.

[AFG21]

what is amusing and absurd is that some wish to ignore the fact that it was secularist/militant communists who assassinated Daud Khan. A fool here is suggesting that the anti-Soviet Mujahideed killed him. Now, why do the so-called nationalists ignore this?

This is absurd.

These false nationalists were never really nationalists. They just wanted to impose a foreign ideology upon Afghans, same as what Karzai is doing today.

The results will always be a backlash from the masses.

What amuses me is that you think that Daud Khan was a proper muslim who fought for Islam. Oh please did you see his pictures, and pictures of his wive and family. A bald beardles man who alway wore Western clothes, whith a wife that dressed in clothes were you could see her legs in public. Do you think he wanted Sharia, his laws and reforms were also secular. Almost al of the Afghan kings and his family members were secular oriented, for them Islam was something of cultural thing. But you are to dum to understand that.

And you say again, that communist and secularist did everything bad. Secularist and communist were the reaction of 100 of years Islamic governing were peopel were poor and uneducated, its not the other way around. Becuase of the underdevolpment and poverty peopel came in resistance. The educated elite saw our neigbours building citys and economy growing. If you went in the 70 to Iran it looked like Europe, meanwhile Afghanistan looked like a country that steal was in the dark ages. Its the fault of Mullahs and extremist like you and your taliban lovers that we are in this condition, you opressed modernesation and now we are weak and poor and veryone is doing what they want whith us.

[Soldat_Amir]

What amuses me is that you think that Daud Khan was a proper muslim who fought for Islam. Oh please did you see his pictures, and pictures of his wive and family. A bald beardles man who alway wore Western clothes, whith a wife that dressed in clothes were you could see her legs in public. Do you think he wanted Sharia, his laws and reforms were also secular. Almost al of the Afghan kings and his family members were secular oriented, for them Islam was something of cultural thing. But you are to dum to understand that.

And you say again, that communist and secularist did everything bad. Secularist and communist were the reaction of 100 of years Islamic governing were peopel were poor and uneducated, its not the other way around. Becuase of the underdevolpment and poverty peopel came in resistance. The educated elite saw our neigbours building citys and economy growing. If you went in the 70 to Iran it looked like Europe, meanwhile Afghanistan looked like a country that steal was in the dark ages. Its the fault of Mullahs and extremist like you and your taliban lovers that we are in this condition, you opressed modernesation and now we are weak and poor and veryone is doing what they want whith us.

This is the point I am trying to make my brother, the secularists and communists built roads and infrastructure while the Islamists i.e Taliban could not even use a telephone and had to inform the Pak telecom to build them a telephone connection cable in Kandahar using the Quetta phone code.

The Taliban did not even know how to build a road, and the Pakistani civilian eningeers had to do it.

These Islamists kept Afghanistan in a scare mongering state from the start.

It was not the communists who started it all, it was the Peshawar seven who did with the backing of the Pakistani army.

The Mujahideen were opportunists, that's why they looked for any opportunity for their clerics and mullahs to get power including siding and helping expelled communists.

Daud refused their call for assistance, and arrested them, why did he do it, and on what grounds, it was because he was well aware, that Pakistan is pulling all the strings, and it was the same Pakistan, who advised Ahmad Shah Masood to attack and overthrow the government in Panshjir.

Pakistan was the country that sparked all the violence in Afghanistan.

Not the Secularists and Communists. Under the so called "Islamists" there was never peace, there was only obstacles to progression, they opposed every step to make Afghanistan a strong modern nation.

Look at how Amanullah Khan was overthrown by an Islamist called Habibullah Kalakani (a.k.a. Bacha-i Saqqao), he was angry over the reforms and modern progression Amanullah Khan was bringing to Afghanistan, and he opposed female education too, these all the signs of an Islamist in Afghanistan.

[abassinafghan]

i have a very simple question , let us say all this so called bad people are kafir , i prefer this words over secularist ( which is total nonsence like fundamentalist ) , are responsible and the boogie man , how does it come that every comandan of the jahad , is now working for the americans ?

why are they not opposing the americans ? or did they also turned secularist ? or are american also muslims now ? or is their a double standart ?

so if we would follow such a logic and argumentation , i could make also the taliban responsible for the american invasion , because they gave osama bin laden refuge, and he was the main reason they invaded ?

of course we all know they have other interessts but this was the upfront reason .

and as a goverment one should know when to play and when to keep you fingers still especially if the bet is high .

is or was it worth to sacrifice thousands of lives ,for an arab millionair who didnt accomplished anything and just wanted to play hero ?

its even funnier how afghans take such a high moral standart and muselmantob standart on their selfes , but if it comes to ask for the same standart on others i doesnt count , like pakistan like saudi arabia and the rest, it doesnt count .

so if there were buddha statues it was shirk , even the hazaras didnt pray to them lol , but if there are ali jinah statues and the ones of others all over pakistan , than its okay and no one cares .

or the pictures of the saudi king , or the king wearing crosses as medals arround his neck ,where is the jahad in saudi arabia ???

or miser where there is a whole industrie of shirk statues , where people even produce them , where the museums are full of it .

even today this religion is not practised .

how do you would feel if some one found a qurane shariff some where , and then burn it ???

its true ,that it was a shame that they didnt recogmized the taliban goverment put restrictions on us , which hurted the simple people however wanted to safe the stone buildings .

but it doesnt gave us the right to destroy this statues , which to alot of people meant something . not in a moral perspective and let alone the political one ...



so once and for all stopp judging political decisions , by the people who have done them , and lablring them as kafir or good muslim or secularist.

but judge the people by their decisions .