moamar kadafi captured by some wild animals

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Khar or no khar. If the Libyans wanted a new Libya where civil liberties were protected, then this needed to be paramount from the outset. For Gaddafi to be killed like this under the watch of foreign 'liberating' forces and the National Transitional Council is shameful. What humans are ready to do one another puts me off sometimes. There are courts, there are laws and there is humanity in just punishment.

on the surface i see exactly where youre coming from. it was pathetic and sad to see qaddafi go out like that, but the man was responsible for death, torture and rape of his people. i havent walked a mile in the shoes of someone from misrata or benghazi to lecture em on how to treat qaddafi

[tor_khan]

on the surface i see exactly where youre coming from. it was pathetic and sad to see qaddafi go out like that, but the man was responsible for death, torture and rape of his people. i havent walked a mile in the shoes of someone from misrata or benghazi to lecture em on how to treat qaddafi

Libyans have every right and entitlement to have their questions answered. But once again I feel that there are ways of going about this that include laws and civil process; not mobs putting bullets through the head of a man forced onto his knees. Anywhere else that kind of brutality would be condemned strongly and rightly so and the ones pulling the trigger would be up for murder. No one is calling for an arms amnesty as of yet and until they do, the watching authorities shoulder the responsibility.

I am not a Gaddafi sympathiser and agree that it was his time to step away from power. It's just that there I don't applaud lynch mob vigilantism. Pashtoons of all people should know that that kind of thing debases people down the lowest level because we have gone down that path of lack of humanity and the reckless law of the gun.

... musings from a distance ...: Game Over/Start

[BarakzaiAbdali]

on the surface i see exactly where youre coming from. it was pathetic and sad to see qaddafi go out like that, but the man was responsible for death, torture and rape of his people. i havent walked a mile in the shoes of someone from misrata or benghazi to lecture em on how to treat qaddafi

You have your hand on the pulse of the average citizen in these places it seems. I had a patient from Jalalabad talking to me about it. I asked him why they could no have done proper sharia proceedings if the committee was going to declare Sharia law anyway? Now this guy is simple, a refugee straight from the kalaay, but he gave me a look and said:

"wa doktar saib, delta loya shawaay yey aw sadaa yey! Khoday de aularaa!"

For non Pashto speakers: Doctor, you were raised in the US and hence you are very simple minded/sheltered. May God keep you safe!"

and he said in a simple way:

"Ka khlaas e ko Amreekanyaan? Na byaa sa? Wo, pa zaleem bandaay zulm aushoo, thassh beh shoot karaay waw!"

"And if the Americans let him go? Then what? Yes, the oppressor was oppressed... they should have just shot him!"

To this guy, this was only slight injustice because to him the bigger injustice would have been Gaddafi living scott free and getting away with it all.

In many parts of the world, justice is delivered at the barrell end of a gun. Your reputation and your deeds are your defense, judge, and jury.

Now Tor Khan, if we are talking about civilized and methodologies of legitimate governance I think the US can be asked the same question:
They could have apprehended Awlaki and his teen age son... instead they slammed two missiles into them.
They could have captured Bin Ladin, but instead they executed him in front of his daughter.

This is the world as it is... not as we want it to be. In a state of war, everyone does what is best for their interests, including the supposed free world. This always the way it has been.

[khushal]

I am not criticizing that he was shot. Actually the man that shot him was probably the one with mercy. I would only criticize the torturing of any man.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I am not criticizing that he was shot. Actually the man that shot him was probably the one with mercy. I would only criticize the torturing of the man.

I agree Khushal Khan, I think what I am trying to say is that the world as it is works this way:

In our classrooms, we are indoctrinated generally to believe in ideals... folks in the Muslim world in an educated enviroment are told about the many great deeds and situations in which sahabaa spared lives.

In the West we are indoctrinated about John Adams's sparing the British Soldiers and shelterning them in Boston despite the mob mentality of wanting to kill them.

In general, when we read history we are taught of Cyrus's supposed fair dealings and how he spared and freed so many people. Yet this is ahistorical nonsense. He invaded places and killed off whole cities and subsequently claimed to be a "liberator" of Babylon.

And it goes on and on and on.

But who are wars declared by? Why instigates wars? When Lindsay Graham is sitting in his den, drinking his red wine, he could care less... he just makes a call and the ball starts rolling.

In the middle least, Saddam Hussein decides that Iran and Iraq must clash over shatt Al Arab... and millions die.

And who is fighting these wars?

1. Tennesse farm boys and high school drop outs
2. Kids raised in orphanges and madrassas in Afghanistan
3. Mercenaries in Libya as well as untrained civilians who picked up the gun for the first time.

They fight with instinct as their ancestors did.
The Romans showed Hannibal no mercy.. nor did they show Vercengitorix mercy. And had the the other side caught Caeser, they would have sliced him up pretty well too.

War is still war and will always be war.

[Soldat_Amir]

No offence Graveyard, but Qadafi was killed by the same people who fight Nato forces in Iraq and Afghanistan the Libyan Islamic group as they are referred to.

I dont see any difference between their views and yours. Qadafi was a secularists, and was killed the same way as Najibullah.

Same Western forces aided the rebels same way they aided the Afghan Mujahideen.

Afghanistan remake 2011 as I like to call it.

[Soldat_Amir]

I agree Khushal Khan, I think what I am trying to say is that the world as it is works this way:

In our classrooms, we are indoctrinated generally to believe in ideals... folks in the Muslim world in an educated enviroment are told about the many great deeds and situations in which sahabaa spared lives.

In the West we are indoctrinated about John Adams's sparing the British Soldiers and shelterning them in Boston despite the mob mentality of wanting to kill them.

In general, when we read history we are taught of Cyrus's supposed fair dealings and how he spared and freed so many people. Yet this is ahistorical nonsense. He invaded places and killed off whole cities and subsequently claimed to be a "liberator" of Babylon.

And it goes on and on and on.

But who are wars declared by? Why instigates wars? When Lindsay Graham is sitting in his den, drinking his red wine, he could care less... he just makes a call and the ball starts rolling.

In the middle least, Saddam Hussein decides that Iran and Iraq must clash over shatt Al Arab... and millions die.

And who is fighting these wars?

1. Tennesse farm boys and high school drop outs
2. Kids raised in orphanges and madrassas in Afghanistan
3. Mercenaries in Libya as well as untrained civilians who picked up the gun for the first time.

They fight with instinct as their ancestors did.
The Romans showed Hannibal no mercy.. nor did they show Vercengitorix mercy. And had the the other side caught Caeser, they would have sliced him up pretty well too.

War is still war and will always be war.

Wars are fought over interests, and nobody's hands are clean, we live in a era where our voices can be heard, and opposition to such wars can be done by the public.

[کیش]

Wild animals destroyed Sirte

Sirte 'pays price of revolution' - YouTube

[کیش]

No offence Graveyard, but Qadafi was killed by the same people who fight Nato forces in Iraq and Afghanistan the Libyan Islamic group as they are referred to.

I dont see any difference between their views and yours. Qadafi was a secularists, and was killed the same way as Najibullah.

Same Western forces aided the rebels same way they aided the Afghan Mujahideen.

Afghanistan remake 2011 as I like to call it.

The Muj didn't have precision airstrikes, cruise missliles, drones and NATO commandos at their disposal like these people did.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Wars are fought over interests, and nobody's hands are clean, we live in a era where our voices can be heard, and opposition to such wars can be done by the public.

I wish this was the case Maseed Wrorre, but look at the huge protests against intervention in Iraq back earlier this past decade... and there were similar movements in the USA. Then look at the frenzy over Libya.. there were analysts here questioning openly why the US was involved there for any reason.

They never listen and my opinion is that these policy makers rarely will.

Take the early protests to Vietnam... they did not succeed until a critical juncture.

What has happened in the US since Vietnam is our policy makers have learned a huge lesson.

No longer is there a draft to ensure that all Americans of varying classes feel the pain of war. The public is shielded from its consequences. It is now an all volunteer army. This has effectively decoupled the ravages of war from popular suspicion and effect.

The conditions are ripe in certain economic instances for folks to sign up with the military for scholarships and other benefits. Many of the folks in the era after gulf war 1 and up to 2001 lived in what appeared to be idyllic bliss thinking that they could get a free military ride.

As the economy worsens, the folks that cannot get jobs end up looking to the miitary as a last ditch option.

Furthermore, businesses have sprung up around these current wars and have made war a whole new economic sector.

The reason Vietnam ended was because suburban white kids started to get sent home in body bags since there was a draft.

Now, its easy for Lindsey Graham to praise war on all fronts... it doesnt even touch him. In fact, in his state, Carolina, a large amount of economy centers around the war:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...-other-frauds/