The Citizen vs. The Tribesmen

[Tjanaparh]

I think any change done by force is a bad thing! When people do not see the evidence to change something political changes will harmthose people, they will be feel attacked by their own rulers.
I am a foreigner and have not good ideas about the tribal structure of Pashtuns, according to my expierience if there are obstacles because of tribalism - the only way of resolving them is education and an education that gives understanding and not already given ideas without understanding.
Dear Scimitar, if I may respond to the question about culture - every culture may on historical moments loose its health (I am not saying if it happened as I do not know the realities), in this case changes from inner of people are not a destruction of a culture. When a tradition looses its reasons it is a dangerous tradition - so it is important not t loose connection with the culture but when connection gets lost something must be chaged to avoid that people suffer following traditions without knowing why. I hope You understood what I mean?
In this case(if it is the case) peopleshould find the right way to reform their culture.
Adopting foreign systems and customs seems easy - but it leads to problems as they are not based on the memory of the nation and will be strange for the nation and to radical.
That is why people should remain fedel to their culture, reforming its bad sides on their own experience.
I hpe You understood what problems I focused on?

[AFG21]

Tribalism will fade away like in other countrys, you don't need to force peopel to change, it is not nesecary, if just educate them they will change. Becuase if Afghanistan economie will grow the urbanisation will happen and peopel will adopt the lives of citizens like in other countrys around the world.

[ScimitarXEdge]

AFG1 ...who says that's necessarily better?

[khushal]

so explain to us how did Pashtuns become Muslims and serve under the domination of both the Ghorids and the Ghaznawids?

pashtuns can become hindus or jewish, but will that de tribalize them. Why do you think that Ahmed Shah's son moved his capital from Kandahar to Kabul. And why do you think that every ruler that started from Kabul or any other city in Afghanistan and invaded the Indian subcontinent moved their capital away from Pashtun land. I dont think you know what your talking about.

[kakargirl]

The reason why you was greeted by White people in Holland was because they were civilized and progressive, and the reason why Turks stuck with Turks and Arabs with Arabs, is because they come from corrupted backgrounds and poor upbringings.

I feel sorry for the West at times, especially when dealing with their immigrant populations, if this was Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Bahrain, they would have mass beaten any migrant who broke any laws. etc etc etc.

Stoning of women is actually a Jewish custom that mohammad introduced to Islam. The ancient Israelites followed this custom, and has nothing to do with "Pure Afghan culture" or Afghanistan as a whole.

Anyone who says, stoning a girl/women is part of Pashtun/Afghan culture needs their head reexamined.

These newly introduced bedion customs are due to the arrivals from the middle eastern during the 70's, and the impact of a identity broken smashed Pakistani public.

Men in Waziristan, back in the 40's, use to hang about near the rivers, brushing their mostachs, and combing their hair, dressing nicely, just to attract the females who would wash their clothes/collect water from the river and springs, one can refer to it as "Traditional love". Those days are gone, now women are chained to their rooms and walk around in Pre-Islamic Bedion Arab Burqas.

The Afghan people of the old ages were tolerant and kind, thats why people wrote about them and referred to them as noble people, now a days, those days are gone, we have a new generation of Lal masjid like lunatics who dont even spare children when they murder.

I hope you don't mind just a few questions So what religion did they follow in the 1940s?

So WAZIRSTAN has only been muslims for 70 years?

Have you ever met the white extremist? because north of UK numbers growing same in russia same in europe white power groups have you come across them?

Do they greet you well?

[Shayesta]

AFG1 who says that's necessarily better?

We have tried the unnecessary, you think that's going okay?

[AFG21]

AFG1 ...who says that's necessarily better?

You leave like a citizens everyone on this form leaves like citizen, is your live that bad, are you being builied outside that you need your tribe to defend you?. Our tribes for the must of us is just a name, and being proud of a name is just wrong, being proud is an empty emotion. And nothing stays for ever, as a muslim you should know that. And who says leaving in a village whith no clean water, no elektricity and healtcare miles away ( and steal the doctor most of the time don't know what he is doing) is a good live? And don't forget the constant disputes over land and powerm and gossips. There are good sides like this guy on video said that you have the feeling that you belong to a group, but the negatief aspects are just to big and to many.

[Soldat_Amir]

I hope you don't mind just a few questions So what religion did they follow in the 1940s?

So WAZIRSTAN has only been muslims for 70 years?

Have you ever met the white extremist? because north of UK numbers growing same in russia same in europe white power groups have you come across them?

Do they greet you well?

Islam came to Afghanistan during the Ghananvi period. The Arabs did come before him, but were pushed back, and their traces were very much limited.

Waziristan is the same as Afghanistan, and the Islam practiced by Pashtuns during the pre-1970's period was not the radical trash Wahabi crap you see today, most of them followed a very soft form of Sufism hence if one reads Waziristan folklore, you can hear stories of mythic priets and taveezis to stop jinns from taking your children.

I have quite a few friends within the White Nationalist movement, and I understand their feelings, hence we get on well, they dont want Islamic Sharia nor political correctness going out of control, the same way you dont want Modernisation, progression and Western laws in your native Afghanistan.

Ive been to Russia a few years ago, Skinheads there are merely criminals, and their numbers are over exxgarated by Western Media to defame Russia. Russia hosts over 22 Million Muslims, half of its nation consists of Muslims who are fiercely Pro Russian, married to Russians, and dont follow Sharia nor this Arab Islam you guys adore, they are moderates.

In regards to greeting me well, Ive been to Islamabad, pulled over twice, forced to pay a bribe because I look "Tribal", My wife was attacked in Lahore by a Punjabi mob and told to "**** off back to Iran"

I was strip searched by Pakistani police at Bahria town check post, and my mother was called a "pathani penchud" at the time too.

All that happened in a Islamic country.

My wife, me and my mother, have ever been TREATED LIKE THIS, in the UK, NEVER!

My brother in law, was deceived by a fellow Muslim, to work in Dubai, the minute he arrived, they took him to a cabin, and forced to do labour last year, he came home with nothing and his money was taken from him by his employer.

Nothing like that happens in the West but in the Muslim world.

WHat about Asia Bi, a Christian Pakistani, a poltiican was shot dead(salam taseer) for defending her,mobs of people including the educated Muslims are calling for her death,

You ever seen a Skinhead, Far right, Nazi organisation in the West calling for the death of a Muslim gang who raped several Christian women in the UK, especially in Rochdale?

You cant use skinhead violence to mock me little girl, you are the one who came on here, boasting about how Nordic and white you look, and how modest and decent you are than the native indegenious white catholic girls.

You need some growing up to do!

In the west, its civilised, people have worked hard to develop their nations, they are progressives, and not easily misled by anyone hence they have influence in International politics, while on the other hand the Muslim worlds only successful nation in terms of GDP revenue Saudi Arabia still throws young school girls into burning buildings because their burqas were on fire and their faces and bodies were revealing, ask yourself would that happen in the West?

I believe, Afghanistan, I mean Afghanistan not this corrupted backward disease called the Muslim world, could learn alot from the West, especially in terms of development, organisation and economical progression.

Sitting on the grass with your Tassbee outside the Political agents office in Waziirstan, will not develop your people nor make you a strong nation.

"Radical Islam" needs to be reformed to be more softer Islam, a more intellectual Islam, not the Islam that segregates its followers from progression and blackmails its followers through Mullahs.

[khushal]

Women in Afghanistan wear burqa in vilages and in cities. Actualy now every vilage women wear burqa and in the cities some do wear it and some not. Becuase taliban have power in rural areas, so you would rarely see a women outside and if you do then she is wearing a burqa

Show me proof, and also do you know what a burqa is?

[khushal]

"Radical Islam" needs to be reformed to be more softer Islam, a more intellectual Islam, not the Islam that segregates its followers from progression and blackmails its followers through Mullahs.

Radical Islam that has taken hold in pashtun villages is a reaction to the radical communists that were forcing radical reform on conservative village Pushtuns. You yourself are an extremist but you dont know it. You suggested nuking palistine and Israel, only an insane person would suggest something that extreme. You belong in an insane asylum.

[AFG21]

Show me proof, and also do you know what a burqa is?

What kind of proof do you want, do you want pictures or something, why is it so hard to belive that burqa, what most afghans call chadari is like every where.
There are no statistics or something that I can show it to you, is that what you want. You know that when Taliban were on power every women had to wear them, and now olmost evry women were chadari. And in villages women are not allowed to go outside, only if there is eid or something the men brings them to the relatives homes. And they wear chadari even when they are sitting in a car of there husbands, they take it only of in the houses. And do you have a proof that women in the villages don't wear a chadari.

And take a look at the picture below, is that women leavind in a city?

Woman with chickens, Balkh province, Afghanistan | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[khushal]

What kind of proof do you want, do you want pictures or something, why is it so hard to belive that burqa, what most afghans call chadari is like every where.
There are no statistics or something that I can show it to you, is that what you want. You know that when Taliban were on power every women had to wear them, and now olmost evry women were chadari. And in villages women are not allowed to go outside, only if there is eid or something the men brings them to the relatives homes. And they wear chadari even when they are sitting in a car of there husbands, they take it only of in the houses. And do you have a proof that women in the villages don't wear a chadari.

And take a look at the picture below, is that women leavind in a city?

Woman with chickens, Balkh province, Afghanistan | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I said in a pashtun village, not in balkh provence. balkh is a tajik provence.
your so uneducated you don't even know where the Pashtuns reside in Afghanistan.

you asked for proof, I will provide.
this is a girls school in a pashtun village, I dont see any burqas.


these are pashtun village women, i dont see any burqas.


this is another pashtun girls school ina village


Us female marines having a meeting with pashtun village women, no burqas.



the burqa is not a pushtun custom. It is foreign to pashtun villages. They are mostly worn in farsiwan villages and urban centers in afghanistan not in in pashtun villages. chadari is a farsi word. Pashtuns wear a "tekri"

so where is the burqa in this article about pashtun villlage women resoving disputes.

http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/USAID/Article/2169/Women_Elders_Resolve_Disputes

show me a source that says burqas are common in pashtun villages. because I am showing you the opposite.
Bush, Burqas and the Oppression of Afghan Women
the burqa was no Taliban invention, but has been customary female garb at different points, over many centuries, from Byzantium to Central Asia), others are quite contemporary, and the U.S. bears significant responsibility for them.

[AFG21]

^were the man was standing those were litel school girls the other picture is taken in a home, you don't expect them to wear a burqua in a house do you? It's not like the women in the citys are also sleeping whith burqa on on the other picture you see al the women even the soldier is a women, and all the pictures are taken inside in a houseor school. That's why you don't see a burqa if they were outside then they would wear it. Tekri means scarf and like chadari they are both warn. I know it's not originaly Pashtun culture, so is navroz not originaly Pashtun but everybody is selebrating it.
Were from Afghanistan are you? You really need to visit Afghanistan.

And the only women in Afghanistan that walk whitout Chadari are the Kuchi/ghalge peopel. Becuase even the Taliban are scared of them.

[AFG21]

And you are the one that is uneducated Pashtuns don't only leave in the south and east they also live in the North if you look at Ethnick map of Afghanistan you will see that Pashtuns also leave in Balkh province. And most old women don't wear burqas, I never saw a young Pashtun women in a village whith just tekri walking.

[khushal]

so you admit its not pashtun culture, than how do explain that rural pashtuns would wear them. The kuchis dont wear them not because people fear them, they dont wear them because it is not their culture you idiot.
village women dont venture outside their home. when you go into a pashtun village, you will hardly see any women. your a complete idiot who cant find any sources to back up what you say.
but here are pashtun village women outside their home.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/ilsp/research/kakar.pdf

and women, who do not usually wear a boghra in their village will wear it in the refugee setting


I just provided you a bunch of more sources.
so you should provide sources and back up what you say or shut the hell up.