The Citizen vs. The Tribesmen

[AFG21]

^Yes some are being killed, but some not, to think that evereone is being stoned to death if they don't folow pashtunwali is stupid.

[ScimitarXEdge]

just because you say something happened doesn't mean you're telling the truth either.

the problem is you have no references; here are some references, Also we're not talking about method of being killed, we're talking about being killed.

[khushal]

Men in Waziristan, back in the 40's, use to hang about near the rivers, brushing their mostachs, and combing their hair, dressing nicely, just to attract the females who would wash their clothes/collect water from the river and springs, one can refer to it as "Traditional love". Those days are gone, now women are chained to their rooms and walk around in Pre-Islamic Bedion Arab Burqas.

The Afghan people of the old ages were tolerant and kind, thats why people wrote about them and referred to them as noble people, now a days, those days are gone, we have a new generation of Lal masjid like lunatics who dont even spare children when they murder.

Look at this idiot. More evidence that you dont speak Pashto and have never been to Waziristan. Women in Waziristan dont wear burqas. They wear a traditional pashtun "tekri." burqas is an urban thing and foreign to rural pashtuns.

[khushal]

^Yes some are being killed, but some not, to think that evereone is being stoned to death if they don't folow pashtunwali is stupid.

Scimitar is right on this one. Pashutnwali promotes death for pre marital sex and adultery. I have also heard that killing is not always the case but getting away with it is extremely rare. In a neighboring village of ours, there was a woman who ran away with a man, they killed the man but left the woman alone.

[khushal]

No, I clearly stated I don't necessarily agree with it, numerous examples of tribes giving up their autonomy, especially these days, but perhaps in the past this was true.

yes numerous examples, that is why we see peace flourishing in Afghanistan. They are giving up tribalism and are becoming citizens. hahahahahahaha

[abassinafghan]

we have to surpass tribalism/qaumiat , it will not lead us to a better future , its a relict of the past where it belonged to


and there is nothing special to be of some qaum , i didnt see that some of the qaums are better than others .... i have not seen yet that the people of one qaum s-h-i-t gold and piss honey .

i my opinion its just the wrong pride of people who didnt accomplished anything by their selfes and have to bragg about the past .... living in pastime paradise .

people in the past formed qaums actually to withstand against strangers in an hostile envoirement .

but funny thing is you will have problems more often with your own quam than with strangers.

unfourtently in the past positions and work was not given to the most capable but the one with the best relations


the value and destiniy of a man is determinated by himself and his actions , not to what quam he belongs ....

[Soldat_Amir]

Abolish this tribal structure and modernise our people.

Most of the world use to be in tribes then they moved on and became citizens.

Tribalism is a disease! lawlessness is much worse!

[AFG21]

Look at this idiot. More evidence that you dont speak Pashto and have never been to Waziristan. Women in Waziristan dont wear burqas. They wear a traditional pashtun "tekri." burqas is an urban thing and foreign to rural pashtuns.

Women in Afghanistan wear burqa in vilages and in cities. Actualy now every vilage women wear burqa and in the cities some do wear it and some not. Becuase taliban have power in rural areas, so you would rarely see a women outside and if you do then she is wearing a burqa

[Toramana]

Tribalism needs to go...it is out of mode with what are the requirements of the modern day.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Abolish this tribal structure and modernise our people.

Most of the world use to be in tribes then they moved on and became citizens.

Tribalism is a disease! lawlessness is much worse!

Tribalism needs to go...it is out of mode with what are the requirements of the modern day.

The reason you provided is not sufficient, as a matter of fact, there is actually no reason and argument at all. First of all, you should provide a definition of both "structure" and "agency", then relate these two concepts to the situation in Afghanistan and consider these:

• Describe the people of Afghanistan
• Describe their way of life
• Provide reasons on how the agency and social structures are impacting Afghanistan right now (Both advantages and disadvantages so to keep an objective view)
• Build up a good argument on "why do you think tribalism needs to go"? with proper references and statistics..
• Propose your reforms, how are you going to achieve it?
• The impact your proposed reforms will have on the people, how will they react to it, etc., (Consider the advantages, disadvatanges, intended and unintended consequences).

I could add more to the list but I think this is enough, and hopefully, this will get you thinking. I'm looking forward for your response. Just make sure you provide references for any ideas that are not yours, and historical events should be referenced as well.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Jamaludeen, can I please have your views on the following matters? I know what Toramana and Soldat would write but we are in need of a fresh perspective and I think you're the perfect person to provide it:

• Describe the people of Afghanistan keeping in view their tribal structure
• Describe their tribal way of life
• Provide reasons on how the agency and social structures are impacting Afghanistan right now (Both advantages and disadvantages so to keep an objective view)
• Build up a good argument on "why do you think tribalism should stay or go" with proper references and statistics..
• Propose your reforms, if any, and how are you going to achieve them?
• The impact your proposed reforms will have on the people, how will they react to it, etc., (Consider the advantages, disadvantages, intended and unintended consequences).

The reason I'm asking you is that you're intellectually driven and that's admirable and we all know that Soldat and Toramana are a little impressed by Western ideas and that will make their responses unintellectual. I want to study your ideas on the matter at hand.

Thanks.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Jamaludeen, can I please have your views on the following matters? I know what Toramana and Soldat would write but we are in need of a fresh perspective and I think you're the perfect person to provide it:

• Describe the people of Afghanistan keeping in view their tribal structure
• Describe their tribal way of life
• Provide reasons on how the agency and social structures are impacting Afghanistan right now (Both advantages and disadvantages so to keep an objective view)
• Build up a good argument on "why do you think tribalism should stay or go" with proper references and statistics..
• Propose your reforms, if any, and how are you going to achieve them?
• The impact your proposed reforms will have on the people, how will they react to it, etc., (Consider the advantages, disadvantages, intended and unintended consequences).

The reason I'm asking you is that you're intellectually driven and that's admirable and we all know that Soldat and Toramana are a little impressed by Western ideas and that will make their responses unintellectual. I want to study your ideas on the matter at hand.

Thanks.

There is a lot of inconsisties in your request, my lewanay brother because I haven't really spoken about or given any hints about my views in here. Therefore, how would you know that I proposed reforms, or want reforms? That was a horrible copy paste job, but I'm hoping that you did it as a joke because if you were serious then it would seriously demolish your e-credibility on pashtunforums.

I do have my views, but I do not shove it down peoples' throats for self-gratification like toramora and soldat amir did in posts above without providing a reason, backed up with evidence. When someone expresses their views, they should build up a good argument with supporting documents as evidence to support it, otherwise they should keep it to themselves. I merely guided them in the right direction so the discussion is more fruitful. The quality of content is really important, so readers like me can benefit from it.

Thanks for all the sweet compliments though, and they really made me blush, however as a consequence of you requesting something with bad intentions in order to mock me, I'm going to have to decline your request. I'm not offended though, so don't be alarmed.

Moreover, you are welcome to tell us on why you find soldat amir and toramora "unintellectual"? Maybe, we think alike...

[ScimitarXEdge]

Abolish this tribal structure and modernise our people.

Most of the world use to be in tribes then they moved on and became citizens.

Tribalism is a disease! lawlessness is much worse!

I thought you wanted to preserve Pashtun culture?

[ScimitarXEdge]

yes numerous examples, that is why we see peace flourishing in Afghanistan. They are giving up tribalism and are becoming citizens. hahahahahahaha

so explain to us how did Pashtuns become Muslims and serve under the domination of both the Ghorids and the Ghaznawids?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Tribalism needs to go...it is out of mode with what are the requirements of the modern day.

who defines "modern"?