Taleban commander stoned to death

[khushal]

see there you go......you selectively lower your demands of evidence. Whether both parties admitted it, your criteria is that a physical body has to be evident. Changing GOAL POSTS AGAIN!

The NYT's doesn't merely quote opinions, it quotes confirmations of what happened. even from a villager himself.

Nobody is doubting the first incidence since NATO, the afghan government and the Taliban admitted the incident. If the taliban claimed a downed helicopter and NATO denied it, then there is room for doubt.

ITs opinions, he said she said stuff. They dont have a CSI unit that can investigate murders.

[ScimitarXEdge]

BUt your argument is Physcal evidence .....you're changing goal posts. If we go by your REASONING, then two sides maybe lying because they're not direct reports of the incident.

furthermore if you're changing goal posts now and saying both sides need to confirm something for it to be true

well then

Pakistan admits it created the Taliban and Taliban members confirm that the Taliban were being dictated by Pakistan

ISI, CIA together created Taliban: Zardari (Lead) - Thaindian News

So based on your logic then this is enough evidence.

[khushal]

BUt your argument is Physcal evidence .....you're changing goal posts. If we go by your REASONING, then two sides maybe lying because they're not direct reports of the incident.

furthermore if you're changing goal posts now and saying both sides need to confirm something for it to be true

well then

Pakistan admits it created the Taliban and Taliban members confirm that the Taliban were being dictated by Pakistan

ISI, CIA together created Taliban: Zardari (Lead) - Thaindian News

So based on your logic then this is enough evidence.

How could that be when the TAliban were there before the creation of pakistan. The taliban came from the madrasas which have existed for hundreds of years.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You're using what's called a Fallacy of Equivocation.


Logical Fallacies» Equivocation Fallacy

Equivocation Fallacy
Explanation
The fallacy of equivocation is committed when a term is used in two or more different senses within a single argument.

The Taliban we are referrig came into existence in the early 90's Pakistani existed long before then

The lexical word for students, is Talibn, but this isn't referring to a group where the ALLEGED narrative where a "few Qandaharis who fought in the 80's"

[khushal]

You're using what's called a Fallacy of Equivocation.


Logical Fallacies» Equivocation Fallacy



The Taliban we are referrig came into existence in the early 90's Pakistani existed long before then

The lexical word for students, is Talibn, but this isn't referring to a group where the ALLEGED narrative where a "few Qandaharis who fought in the 80's"

Wasnt mullah omar a teacher in a madrasa and arent the taliban students from those same madrasas from afghanistan and pakistan. Remember there are millions of students that went into those madrasas.
So by your logic, Pakistan existed hundreds of years ago who created the madrasas but we all know that is false becasue Pakistan was created in the late 40's

[ScimitarXEdge]

Again Fallacy of Equivocation

you're playing around with the general meaning of Talib, and the Taliban that emerged in the 90's, the only commonality is the issue of being alleged "religious students", everything else is divergent.

repeating the same fallacy twice won't make it correct Khushal ...

[khushal]

Again Fallacy of Equivocation

you're playing around with the general meaning of Talib, and the Taliban that emerged in the 90's, the only commonality is the issue of being alleged "religious students", everything else is divergent.

repeating the same fallacy twice won't make it correct Khushal ...

When you alleged the taliban were CREATED by the ISI, it is false because the Talibans mentality was created in those schools which date back hundreds of years.
Because you could say that Azaams organization and Al Quaeda itself was created by the ISI when in fact all books written by scholars date it back to the muslim brotherhood in egypt and Qutb. Name one credible source that says Al Quada was created by the ISI.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You're grasping really hard.

But even if I accept your premise as truth, this is what we found

TALIBAN – Its Origin And The Historical Background

In the absence of any respectable job opportunity, the frustrated youths from Deobandi madrasas in Pakistan set up by Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam who opted for Jihad as career were recruited by ISI to fight against Soviet army in Afghanistan. Darul Uloom Haqqania, a prominent Deobandi madrasa which is about 45 kilometres south of Peshawar and about two hours drive from the border in North West Frontier Province of Pakistan played a major role in educating these youths. Maulana Abdul Haq, teaching Hadith at Darul Uloom Deoband in India founded this madrasa in 1947 on the pattern of Deobandi ideology

.

Darul Uloom Haqqania, a madrasa located in Akhor Khattak on Pakistan border with Afghanistan which is known for producing most of the Taliban fighters including their leader Mullah Omar was founded in 1947 by Maulana Abdul Haq, a teacher of Darul Uloom Deoband. Khaled Ahmed in his article ‘Th e Grand Deobandi Consensus’ published in The Friday Times of Pakistan, dated 4-10 February 2000 said, ‘The civil war in Afghanistan and the jehad in Kashmir have gradually veered to a Deobandi consensus.’

1.) it doesn't sound like hundreds of years of tradition to me; the Madrassa where the Taliban were trained was formed in 1947(when Pakistan came into being)

2.) The Madrassa originates from India; not exactly a "Pashtun Tribal" identity, thus the Taliban mentality originates from India, not Pashtuns


3.) Islam opposes tribalism, hence these students were more than willing to go to an Indian-Rooted Islamic Madrassa.


On every single account your argument is falsified.

The Taliban are Pakistani inventions.

[IamDZJ]

allahu akbar
would you guys shut up now?

[khushal]

You're grasping really hard.

But even if I accept your premise as truth, this is what we found

TALIBAN – Its Origin And The Historical Background


.

1.) it doesn't sound like hundreds of years of tradition to me; the Madrassa where the Taliban were trained was formed in 1947(when Pakistan came into being)

2.) The Madrassa originates from India; not exactly a "Pashtun Tribal" identity, thus the Taliban mentality originates from India, not Pashtuns


3.) Islam opposes tribalism, hence these students were more than willing to go to an Indian-Rooted Islamic Madrassa.


On every single account your argument is falsified.

The Taliban are Pakistani inventions.

they do date back before 1947. they had 189 registered madrasas before the creation of pakistan. But in reality they date back to the 11th century and started out of egypt.

Pakistan to modernise madrassas
Madrassas, which date back to the 11th century in the Islamic world, had a modest start in Pakistan. In 1947, when Pakistan appeared on the world map, it had only 189 madrassas. By 2002, the country had an estimated 10,000-13,000 unregistered madrassas with 1.7m to 1.9m students.

The Pashtun Taliban mentality has alot of pashtunwali incorporated in it, it is more influenced by pashtunwali( a tribal code) than deobandi thought.

so you have failed again.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The Madrassas that the Taliban come from started in 1947; just having the word "Madrassa" doesn't mean they're identical things. This is a fallacy of Equivocation. The Taliban mentality was created during the Pakistan era. We're talking about Pashtun areas, so using Pakistan in general is not an adequate measure. furthermore it verifies that they're under Pakistani authority and therefore not against Pakistan. Deobandi is a South Asian variety of teaching, not Tribal Pashtun.

By conceding that Taliban take more from extra canonical sources; then you nullify their connection to the Original Taliban of Egypt as you say. hence verifying once again that they're a Pakistani creation.

how do I fail when you confirm the Madrassas that lead to the Taliban were spawned in 1947, if anything you confirmed my position; even when you ignored that the Taliban were taught at Akorah Khattak

[khushal]

I was talking about pashtunwali as being incorporated into the afghan taliban mentality. pahstunwali is a tribal code not deobandi school of thought.

When I said you failed, I am referring that you have failed in the Pak slavery conspriracy theory just like you failed to prove the original argument of the thread.

[ScimitarXEdge]

in other words you're committing a Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy

point taken

debunked.

As for the other arguments; I confirmed by the Taliban's killing of Col. Imam after he threatened to expose Pakistan, the fact that Pakistani Leaders confirm the ISI created them, and TALIBAN members confirming that Taliban are dictated by the Pakistani ISI....and then after you tried derailing the thread into playing word games of the meaning of Taliban vs. The nature of the Current Taliban movement which is is lead by the highly doubtful "Mullah Umar"; I decided to call your bluff and showed that even there the Taliban represent neither Pashtuns nor the Islamic madrassas of the locals, but of India, hence are not Taliban in the traditional sense.

I don't know how exposing every single point, excuse and scapegoat you have implies failure; I do know it means youre in denial, and more over couldn't care less about Muslim lives. just as long as your ethnic pride is fulfilled.

[khushal]

in other words you're committing a Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy

point taken

debunked.

Scimitar what was the original argument.
you have failed to prove that there is no doubt about the words of an afghan official.

[ScimitarXEdge]

On the contrary; you have failed to prove that the Official was lying

we presented our evidence , now show that evidence is false

Burden of proof is on you.