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  • Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
    Nothing.. In fact, I have dogs myself. But the position of orthodox clerics on this matter is that dogs are filthy and what not so for a generally revered Muslim role model-cum-Muslim great leader to have them is a bit of a contradiction.

    Two tangents can be drawn from this: 1) despite keeping dogs, despite drinking and his affair with his friend's daughter, Jinnah was a true Muslim Mujahid and he rightly fought for the creation of an Islamic state and 2) Jinnah was not genuinely concerned about Islam and his personal indifference to following its basic tenants stands testament to that fact and hence, the state he created in collaboration with the British Empire was a sort of a secular, multicultural state.

    In the first instance, the argument is flawed because Jinnah was not a God-sent Mujahid on a God-given mission. There is no confusion here. In the second instance, the purpose of his state is exposed. It has more to do with personal achievement, having one's name written in stone and completing an objective than genuinely solving a major problem. After all, his jump from the Congress into the Muslim League was only for the advancement of his political career - the Congress party had many skilled politicians whereas the Muslim League was only full of Nawabs and Chaudries from Punjab, UP, Bihar and Bengal.
    Unfortunately, When someone is famous and achieves something that nobody expected he has got critics. Jinnah was also given the title of The Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity by a Hindu Politician of congress. Whether he jumped to Muslim League for any purpose at the end of the day he achieved his goal. Is keeping dogs prohibited in Islam? That's a different debate. Let's analyze that whether Pakistan as a state has helped Muslims or not. And you can't deny the fact that it has served the purpose upto some extent. Where would have Afghan Refuges resided if there would have been no Pakistan and to keep in mind that Pakhtunkhwa would have been a part of Afghanistan. The fact is whether you call it good or you call it 'Da Tareekh Jabar' Pakistan as a state is there. Allah swt granted you a state so it's the weakness of the people that they couldn't make it a sound Islamic state. Whether Jinnah wanted it to be Islamic or not, leave that debate. Let this be between Jinnah and Allah swt. The fact is that the Muslims got a piece of land for Islam and the Muslims failed to apply any single rule of Islam over there. That's Da Tareekh Jabar aao Jabar Nazawalay day !!




    Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
    The phrase "Rehmatullah Alayai" is reserved for saintly and religious figures, men who practiced their religion dutifully and bore genuinely good characters. The names of Abu Hanifa, Ahmed ibn Hanbal and many great Muftis are adorned with this prayer and to equate them with a Western man who drank, rejected Shariah Law, had an affair with his friend's 16 year old daughter, kept dogs, never prayed or fasted and as a religious practice, cursed the companions of the Prophet is a bit absurd, don't you think?

    He should be revered for his political skills that he learned from the English and Congress, his coldness and stubbornness (two invaluable political skills) and his difference to the plight of the common man but giving him the same status as a person like Abu Hanifa, Shah Waliullah, Bachaa Khan, etc is ludicrous.

    Tomorrow, they'll start saying "Pir Altaf Hussain Rehmatullah Alaye" and what not. This prayer will become meaningless.
    Actually it's not reserved. When we Pakhtuns talk about someone who is dead we say, Allah Di Obakhi wos, Allah di pi wos khpal Raham wokri. It's just the same if you translate it into Arabic. If you say that in Arabic it's reserved for the saints and in other languages it's not reserved that's a different matter.

    He rejected Shariah Law, He had an affair with someone? Do you have proofs? Do you have the DNA of that 16 year old girl? It's all allegations. He kept dogs so many people keep dogs? Never prayed or Fasted? How can you say that? Cursed the companions of the Prophet PBUH how? Whem?

    Manana..
    yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

    Comment


    • I don't see any of you guys in the picture, hahaha

      Comment




      • Jinnah statue in Toronto, Canada due to Pakistani lobbying.



        Bronze statues of Jinnah and Iqbal, forbidden by Islam.



        Statue of Jinnah and his sister, Fatima with Pakistanis looking on.



        Sculpture of Jinnah and his sister at Pakistan's National Monument Museum.



        Giant painting of Ali Jinnah (forbidden by holy Islam).



        Another large painting of Jinnah as part of his personality cult (forbidden by Islam)
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        Shukran ya Masr!!!

        Thanks to Egypt for supporting Bangladesh against Pakistani harassment and support for terrorists and war criminals!!

        Comment


        • Distant relative of Ali Jinnah who Pakistanis should be given money merely for being his relative.

          aslam jinnah (grandson of mohd. ali jinnah) - YouTube

          YOUTUBE COMMENTS:

          Even if he is not real grandson he is related to Quaid,they dont deserve this life. Channel should have given clarification so that people dont get confused and also should have provided their contact details so that if Govt. is not paying attention, people could help them out.
          Shamzeela

          He should be paid,At least 1 any house in some were,but this ******* govt,they don,t want to know about him and his family,who cares,weather he lives like a dogs or he lives levishly.Shame on Shame on pakistani govt.shame on you **** all.
          kdmirza

          hey .. i dont care whether they are son or daughter or grandson of some one .. i do respect my Qaid and they are his family and are in pain and tough condition...
          I would request any one who here knows any of the contact number of this person ... i need to see them ...

          soulatzaidi

          i ashamed to be a pakistani
          amir7352

          such a heart breaking news that the family of Founder of Pakistan is living such a life and its such a shame that for many years we never heard of them and gov doesnt do anything for them.Why these army officers gets houses during work and after retirement and why not Jinnah family.I will send them some money as am in Uk and ask people to support them please,I can find out where they live and how can I help them and people should do this please,please
          saap82

          Aslam is the Quaid's first cousin's grandson. The Pak govt is helping him. Anyone interested can search google for more information.
          KyokushinStudent

          mohammed ali Jinnah, only had one daughter, she lives in New york, but even aslam is related the quaid, he should be helped, if he can proof that he is connected to the jinnah family , it is sad that he has to live like this. having read the article by L merchant, I do not think he is direct grandson of the Father of nation.
          So he should be helped out of his misery because he happened to be born to the "Quaid" (Jinnah), but if he can't prove that he is "connected" to the "Quaid", he should continue to suffer and live in misery?
          nan960

          If this video is true and this man has the link to our father of the nation then we should be ashamed of ourselves. We as (Pakistanis) have given the keys of our house (Pakistan) to the corrupt, dangerous gangesters. Yet family of Jinnah and other families of Pakistani are living very poor.
          afy2007

          Now coming to the point it is extremely sad to see him in this condition. whether he is a real grandson or related, the fact is that he infact is from Quaid's family. And as he mentioned that he is getting some kind of monetary help from the govt, the govt must have done their checks to assure that he is not lying
          hirah87
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          Shukran ya Masr!!!

          Thanks to Egypt for supporting Bangladesh against Pakistani harassment and support for terrorists and war criminals!!

          Comment



          • Aslam Jinnah’s claim of being Quaid’s family disputed

            By Amar Guriro

            KARACHI: Liaquat Merchant, who is the grandson of Maryam Bai, one of Quaid-e-Azam’s sisters, has said that Aslam Jinnah, who claims to be the great grandson of the founder of Pakistan, is not from the Jinnah family. “He might belong to Nathoo Poonja’s family, who is Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s father’s brother, but he does not directly belong to Quaid’s family and I say this firmly on the basis of my personal knowledge,” said Merchant.

            Just a day ago, the federal government announced that Aslam Jinnah would be given a house, car and Rs 50, 000 monthly. “I do not object to the government giving him (Aslam Jinnah) anything, but he must stop introducing himself as Quiad-e-Azam’s family member,” he further said.
            http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-6-2009_pg7_32



            Aslam Jinnah, grandson of Jinnah's paternal uncle, given a free house, car and salary by the Pakistani government.



            HOUSE

            Random internet image of a house in Karachi.



            CAR

            Random internet image of a car in Karachi.



            Pakistani with lots of Pakistani rupees with pictures of Aslam's great grandson's brother's son, Ali Jinnah.



            Random image of a poor person in Karachi who won't be given a free house, car and 50,000 rupees as he is not the great grandson of the brother of Ali Jinnah's father.
            Last edited by Bengal_Tiger; 09-07-2011, 03:33 PM.
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            Shukran ya Masr!!!

            Thanks to Egypt for supporting Bangladesh against Pakistani harassment and support for terrorists and war criminals!!

            Comment


            • Dear All,

              1) Very First thing we Pakistanis never respect him as Prophet (P.B.U.H) and our blasphemy law is very clear and only for our beloved prophet.

              2) We respect him because of his great contribution in establishment of Pakistan and his political vision. His ability to negotiate with Britian.

              3) Muslims are and were aware that he is not religious personality and possess lot of flaws when observe regarding Islamic point of view but the majority of muslims had supported his struggle due to cause not because of him.

              4) There is a difference of opinion among ulema about the creation of Pakistan but as we know the intention behind the differences is good so we respect all the opinion even to those political leaders who were against the establishment of Pakistan but once its establishment now we Pakistanis will fight politically as well as physically for each inch of Pakistan.

              6) We agree that the Islamic law has not been implemented in the state of Pakistan but when I have conversation with my relatives in India and when I meet Ulemas of India in UK, believe me I really find a massive difference between the thoughts of people of Islamic state and non-Islamic state. We thought very freely without any boundaries of imaginations. Every Muslim shall thanks Allah of his freedom.

              7) Finally, I am still unable to guess the idea/purpose behind this thread but once I visited very beautiful park with my friend, full of flowers and greenery but he suddenly go in a corner and pointed a little garbage. I dont why some people are interested to look garbage instead flowers and greenery. I like Jinnah because of his abilities and principles and I pray Allah to forgive his sins. And now its my responsibility to work for propsperity of the nation and nation means each and every ethinicity living in my beloved country and inshaAllah one day we eliminate discrimination and even a baloch from remote area will bear high offices in Pakistan.

              Comment


              • ^
                ok

                it will be an honour to break down those jinah statues and it will also be alot of fun.

                Jinah was a traitor to muslims in this region and what he did was a typical devide and conquer strategy put forward by the british raj.
                you think you can keep people devided and their homelands occupied? be my guest but if i were you i wont bet on it.

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                • Hi Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a great leader and he was truly intelligent leader to realize what irrational nonsense religion is. You people are jealous of his achievements because look at all your historical leaders who were religious jihaad mercenaries. While our national leader give us a modern road to prosper your leaders gave you holy jihaad like Abudali Ghuri Ghaznavi Ludhi Suri all who were religious jihaad leaders who forced converted people of the subcontinent which history you are so proud of you remind us how you make us Muslims and bring Islam to us with boosting. This is why you Pathans Afghanis love jihaad so much but you blame it on Pakistan and Punjabis but we never had any jihaad islamic mercenary leader conqueror unlike Pathans Afghanis. Please know your history. We are proud of Jinnah he had a vision which came true that is modern Pakistan.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PakistaniAtheist View Post
                    Hi Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a great leader and he was truly intelligent leader to realize what irrational nonsense religion is. You people are jealous of his achievements because look at all your historical leaders who were religious jihaad mercenaries. While our national leader give us a modern road to prosper your leaders gave you holy jihaad like Abudali Ghuri Ghaznavi Ludhi Suri all who were religious jihaad leaders who forced converted people of the subcontinent which history you are so proud of you remind us how you make us Muslims and bring Islam to us with boosting. This is why you Pathans Afghanis love jihaad so much but you blame it on Pakistan and Punjabis but we never had any jihaad islamic mercenary leader conqueror unlike Pathans Afghanis. Please know your history. We are proud of Jinnah he had a vision which came true that is modern Pakistan.
                    How do you consider Pakistan a "prosperous" country?

                    There is two times more Pakistanies than Afghans living abroad. Our country has been in wars. Real wars. We left as refugees. What's the excuse for Pakistanies to leave Pakistan?

                    Buddy..pakistan is one of the poorest countries in the world. Who you kidding?
                    even sri lanka ranks ahead of you according to UNDP human development index...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Alchemist View Post
                      How do you consider Pakistan a "prosperous" country?

                      There is two times more Pakistanies than Afghans living abroad. Our country has been in wars. Real wars. We left as refugees. What's the excuse for Pakistanies to leave Pakistan?

                      Buddy..pakistan is one of the poorest countries in the world. Who you kidding?
                      even sri lanka ranks ahead of you according to UNDP human development index...
                      Hi you are right there are more Pakistanis living abroad than Afghanis but look at the population of whole of Afghanistan against Pakistan. Pakistan is prosperous compared to Afghanistan that is all it matters in this discussion no other country or people are this obsessed with Pakistan like afghanis and pathans. Pakistanis go abroad for better living education but there is major difference that is that Pakistanis living in western countries dont spit on those countries by saying kaffir this kaffir evil dajjal system. Pakistanis living abroad also dont wish to impose shariat system on pakistan while enjoying democracy unlike afghanis who enjoying democracy pathans enjoying democracy western country benefits but supporting backward religious mulvi on their poor people in home country. Look at all the supporters of crazy religious fundamentalist on this forum they are not Pakistanis they are all western born living afghanis. Now show me such Pakistanis. Pakistan is poor country but compare to your country people it is super rich so before comparing to others look at self first. You are like a man with no legs making fun at a man with only one.

                      Comment


                      • The whole world has been spitting on pakistan. Do they dare tell Iran what to do? How about north Korea? Chap Pakistan is not respected at all. History will record it as the biggest slave of America next to and equal to karzai
                        Stop fooling yourself about Pakistan nationalism.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by thetruth View Post
                          The whole world has been spitting on pakistan. Do they dare tell Iran what to do? How about north Korea? Chap Pakistan is not respected at all. History will record it as the biggest slave of America next to and equal to karzai
                          Stop fooling yourself about Pakistan nationalism.
                          Hi you are very wrong. Pakistan is slave yet Pakistan is needed to bring insurgents to the table for talks. It is accused of supporting the insurgency while receiving billions in aid to stop them fight them. The whole world will remember Pakistan as the master of this chess game. Pakistan is chess master simple minded backward people will never understand. Pakistan will never be attacked for same reason as North Korea (nuke technology from Pakistan). Iran is next after Syria goes down pay attention to news. So chap stop waiting for dogmatic winged creatures for help with pebbles in mouth help develop your nation and people.

                          Comment


                          • Pakistan can't bring anyone to the table.

                            It's a myth
                            Your secular ilk u mean benazir and zardari
                            isn't benazir dead?

                            Or is she reincarnated ?
                            Fool "your" Pakistan does not exist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by thetruth View Post
                              Pakistan can't bring anyone to the table.

                              It's a myth
                              Your secular ilk u mean benazir and zardari
                              isn't benazir dead?

                              Or is she reincarnated ?
                              Fool "your" Pakistan does not exist
                              Hi your name is the truth but you speak complete nonsense. Pakistan doesnt exist which is on maps in books in news in media with passport and currency but magic sky god exist with no evidence at all. Good one chap.

                              Comment


                              • Buddy I said YOUR Pakistan doesn't exist
                                Your benazir is removed from power
                                Your zardari is put on a leash
                                Who is doing it?
                                This may be beyond your comprehension chap
                                Last edited by Guest; 11-10-2011, 07:26 AM.

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