US-led raid kills 16 Afghan civilians

[MostafaM]

That's not exactly a sound measure of something being falsified; It has happened that the BBC has reported News which other news agencies never have, Likewise in America certain News is reported not reported elsewhere. This does not mean the events didn't occur. It is their editors and program directors who decide to publish reports or not, it is wholly under their discretion. Are there possible ulterior motives for this? Perhaps, but the way we measure this is by what possible motive there would be.

The U.S. Media does the same thing you speak of, for example in certain news articles which deal with NATO soldiers getting killed by Afghan Rogue Officers; they comment about Taliban suicide attack or mention how insurgencies have caused more casualties. This is common not just in Fox News, but CNN, Msnbc. and a few others.

The reason they do this is to add context to the report. I'm not saying that PressTV is 100% Truthful; but you need more than this to discredit the material.

I have yet to read a single BBC, Spiegel or Al Jazeera report that containts the last 6 sentences of that report.

It´s not about informing people, it´s about getting influence on people´s minds. And just see how a Sunni-Taliban supporter, who was close to war with the Iranian Army in 1998, champions the interests of a Shia-led country that is thirsty for his blood and just supports it after the US has entered the region.

Untill 2001 the Taliban were US installed puppets according to the Iranian regime and media.

It´s amusing how forgetfull you people are.

[MostafaM]

That's very vague; because this can vary between many Afghans.


How old is Afghanistan as a Nation?

Afghanistan as a nation state? Not that old.
I would suggest it started to become a nation state in 1919.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I have yet to read a single BBC, Spiegel or Al Jazeera report that containts the last 6 sentences of that report.

It´s not about informing people, it´s about getting influence on people´s minds. And just see how a Sunni-Taliban supporter, who was close to war with the Iranian Army in 1998, champions the interests of a Shia-led country that is thirsty for his blood and just supports it after the US has entered the region.

Untill 2001 the Taliban were US installed puppets according to the Iranian regime and media.

It´s amusing how forgetfull you people are.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist; I have read similar things in BBC.

Many Americans deem Al-Jazeera Arab propaganda.

The Taliban weren't U.S. Installed; but they received 40 Million Dollars for allegedly curbing poppy cultivation. They were in power long before this. You can argue that they came to power as a byproduct of U.S. intervention in Afghanistan during the 80's. But to claim they are U.S. installed is intellectual dishonesty.

The Current Government however WAS in fact U.S. installed because there was no ratified constitution or organzation of it as a defacto governing body prior to U.S. support for it.

As for Taliban being Sunni and Iran being Shi'a and their past rivalries; this is irrelevant in demonstrating your claim.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Afghanistan as a nation state? Not that old.
I would suggest it started to become a nation state in 1919.

I would agree; so then were the Afghans who existed prior to the Afghan Nation State not true Afghans? Since your definition of Afghanistan appears to resolve around the idea of "Nation".

[MostafaM]

Pashtun is a pre-Islamic Culture? any evidence for that? Where are references for Pashtuns in pre-Islamic literature? Where are references for Pashtun cultural or ethnical framework prior to Islam becoming predominant in the region?


Where does the current Military in Afghanistan get its weapons, logistics, training and intelligence?

Are you implying that Pashto (an Eastern-Arian language with close ethymological bonds to Bactrian and Awesta) and Pashtun culture dropped from the sky when Islam arrived in central asia?

The most significant source for the settlement of Pashtun tribes is Herodotus account of the so-called "Pactues" settling back then in modern day Ghor. Source: Historien, Book 4

The cultural centres of Ghandara and Mundigak should also be known to you.

The current army gets its funds from NATO states.
What´s your point?

[MostafaM]

I would agree; so then were the Afghans who existed prior to the Afghan Nation State not true Afghans? Since your definition of Afghanistan appears to resolve around the idea of "Nation".

Prior to the historic age of nation states something like a "nation" didn´t exist.

When I pointed out that a Pashtun must know it´s national interests, you can understand that in the context of nation states or in the context of an ethnic identity.

[unknownprince]

Listen Paki,

Pashtun culture is mostly a pre-islamic culture.
You cannot change that with your "Ummah"-talking.

Tajik nationalism has nothing to do with Afghanistan or us Pashtuns.
Stop blaming everything on the wrong people.

Ask yourself how your insurgency gets weapons, logistics, training and intelligence. I guess their capacities of being a self-sufficient army is limited to the help they get. Would be nice if you could answer where they get this help from.

eeh, Kabul slave boy,

It is not an insurgency. There is a difference between an insurgency and a resistance.

Where doe the ANA get its weapons from? Where does the Kabul government get its money from?


Keep your slave politics to those Kabul expat lackeys. You will never divide us you trash.

[MostafaM]

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist; I have read similar things in BBC.

Many Americans deem Al-Jazeera Arab propaganda.

The Taliban weren't U.S. Installed; but they received 40 Million Dollars for allegedly curbing poppy cultivation. They were in power long before this. You can argue that they came to power as a byproduct of U.S. intervention in Afghanistan during the 80's. But to claim they are U.S. installed is intellectual dishonesty.

The Current Government however WAS in fact U.S. installed because there was no ratified constitution or organzation of it as a defacto governing body prior to U.S. support for it.

As for Taliban being Sunni and Iran being Shi'a and their past rivalries; this is irrelevant in demonstrating your claim.

You need to read carefully: I said "according to Iranian regime and media".

I presented how Iran eyed the Taliban back then in contrast to their media coverage today.

Do you understand that?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Are you implying that Pashto (an Eastern-Arian language with close ethymological bonds to Bactrian and Awesta) and Pashtun culture dropped from the sky when Islam arrived in central asia?

The most significant source for the settlement of Pashtun tribes is Herodotus account of the so-called "Pactues" settling back then in modern day Ghor. Source: Historien, Book 4

The cultural centres of Ghandara and Mundigak should also be known to you.

The current army gets its funds from NATO states.
What´s your point?

What I'm suggesting is that evidence of Pashto prior to the predominance of Islam is not yet found. In fact we don't find any pre-Islamic reference of Pashto.

Ghandaharans spoke Prakrit which is derived from Sanskrit; so there's no way they could have been Pashtuns or at least they did not identify themselves as Pashtuns.

I have witnessed others attempt to use Ghandara as evidence of Pashtun origins; But all archeological evidence indicates Ghandarans were Racially, Ethnically and Culturally Indic; which would not be consistent with Pashto as a Migration of Iranic Speaking languages.

The Best Linguistic Argument is that Pashto, resembles more ancient Phonetic Structures, which COULD POSSIBLY mean that Pashto is Pre-Islamic; but this is not a SMOKING gun, since Linguistics are not a Hard Science; the margin of error can be significant in this type of analysis. There is no smoking gun (metaphor for hard evidence)

Much of alleged Pre-Islamic Pashto heritage is mainly sooth saying and folklore.

And about funding is; that If your argument to discredit something is based on where it gets its funding and support; then the Current Government should be more incriminable for getting funding and support from NATO and the U.S. all of which were Historically Colonial Powers who have meddled with and intefered with Asian affairs for over a century.

[MostafaM]

eeh, Kabul slave boy,

It is not an insurgency. There is a difference between an insurgency and a resistance.

Where doe the ANA get its weapons from? Where does the Kabul government get its money from?

and quit, your no pashtun.

Resistance movements have their powerbases inside the sociaty and operate from within the civilian population that backs them. That´s what the handbook of guerilla warfare states and propagates.

It´s an insurgency because they have their save havens across the border and flee there after attacking, the get trained there and find refuge there.
A resistance movement operates with the OK of the ordinary people who help them WILLINGLY.

And oh yes, I so need your approval to be and feel Pashtun, Paki Boy!
(sarcasm)

[unknownprince]

You need to read carefully: I said "according to Iranian regime and media".

I presented how Iran eyed the Taliban back then in contrast to their media coverage today.

Do you understand that?

look, you donkey, Pashtuns have resisted foreigners for all times. Mirwais neka kicked the Persians out. Wazir Akbar Khan massacred the British Army.

Resistance to foreigners is nothing new or imposed you fool.

It is as natural as eating food. All the past aggressors were defeated, and the present aggressors have already admitted defeat.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You need to read carefully: I said "according to Iranian regime and media".

I presented how Iran eyed the Taliban back then in contrast to their media coverage today.

Do you understand that?

I understand; what I'm saying is your argument doesn't debunk the article

Do you understand that?

[MostafaM]

What I'm suggesting is that evidence of Pashto prior to the predominance of Islam is not yet found. In fact we don't find any pre-Islamic reference of Pashto.

Ghandaharans spoke Prakrit which is derived from Sanskrit; so there's no way they could have been Pashtuns or at least they did not identify themselves as Pashtuns.

I have witnessed others attempt to use Ghandara as evidence of Pashtun origins; But all archeological evidence indicates Ghandarans were Racially, Ethnically and Culturally Indic; which would not be consistent with Pashto as a Migration of Iranic Speaking languages.

The Best Linguistic Argument is that Pashto, resembles more ancient Phonetic Structures, which COULD POSSIBLY mean that Pashto is Pre-Islamic; but this is not a SMOKING gun, since Linguistics are not a Hard Science; the margin of error can be significant in this type of analysis. There is no smoking gun (metaphor for hard evidence)

Much of alleged Pre-Islamic Pashto heritage is mainly sooth saying and folklore.

And about funding is; that If your argument to discredit something is based on where it gets its funding and support; then the Current Government should be more incriminable for getting funding and support from NATO and the U.S. all of which were Historically Colonial Powers who have meddled with and intefered with Asian affairs for over a century.

And the close relation between Pashto and Bactrian and Awesta?

Where did Pashtuns come from?

Did their language, culture and habits drop from the sky when Arabs, who spoke a semitic language with NO connection to Pashto or any other language in the region, arrived there?

Let me hear your explanations.
Herodotus´"Pactues" and there area of settlement called "Pactycia" doesn´t seem to be enough for you.....

[unknownprince]

Resistance movements have their powerbases inside the sociaty and operate from within the civilian population that backs them. That´s what the handbook of guerilla warfare states and propagates.

It´s an insurgency because they have their save havens across the border and flee there after attacking, the get trained there and find refuge there.
A resistance movement operates with the OK of the ordinary people who help them WILLINGLY.

And oh yes, I so need your approval to be and feel Pashtun, Paki Boy!
(sarcasm)

according to several experts (Mathews Hoh, Dr. Scheuer), there would be no resistance in Afghanistan without support from the Afghan people, so your suggestion is not only absurd and false, but it reveals that you are pro-war on Afghan slave. stop lying here. Everyone can see what you are.

Resistance to foreigners is nothing new or imposed. Pashtuns have always resisted foreigners. Mirwais neka kicked the Persians out, and Wazir Akbar Khan massacred the British Army.

Resistance to foreigners is as natural as eating food you farsiwaan ****.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Resistance movements have their powerbases inside the sociaty and operate from within the civilian population that backs them. That´s what the handbook of guerilla warfare states and propagates.

It´s an insurgency because they have their save havens across the border and flee there after attacking, the get trained there and find refuge there.
A resistance movement operates with the OK of the ordinary people who help them WILLINGLY.

And oh yes, I so need your approval to be and feel Pashtun, Paki Boy!
(sarcasm)

Not always; for example VietKong resistance against the Americans was supported by the Soviets.

In fact more often than not, Anti-Imperial resistance has often been a mixture of both Grassroots Support and External Support sympathetic to grassroots causes.

The American Revolution against England for example was supported by oth European Financers.