ISI and the Pakistan Taliban

[MazloomyarMaseed]

In this video, which I am amazed isnt shown very often, but holds very valuble information, shows how close the ISI was with the Naik Mohmmand Wazir, the man responsible for the foreigners in Waziristan, Naik Mohammand Wazir was a very powerful Talib figure, and was very known with the ISI.



My point is in this thread, that what if Pakistan Army did not attack Taliban?

1. Taliban would be fighting for Pakistani Interests
2. Taliban will be loyal to Pakistan Army
3. Taliban would not harm Pakistan but focus on destroying Afghanistan
4. If they can roam around freely in cars with Pakistani Officers, then what makes them so beneficial to Pashtuns as a whole
5. If huge Taliban figures can be holding press conferences so freely whereby they express their support of Pakistan, then what makes you think Afghan Taliban isnt an Asset of Pakistan
6. Some of the video is missing, but there is a video on the same day, where Naik Mohammad stated the tribal Pashtuns are the atomic bomb of Pakistan(PAKISTAN).

Where is the talk of Khalifate, where are the so called Taliban fighters who want to free Pashtuns from the hands of Pakistan.

Its all Nonsense

A game, that is using Pashtuns very brutality.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Please watch it all. Thanks

[pir_Rokhan]

The strategy of Pakistan towards Pashtun Taliban is pretty straightforward.

Buy their loyalties for Pakistan and let them fight for Pakistan in Afghanistan for nothing [just fooling them to fight against KUFFAR [infidels] and occupation forces].

If they refuse to fight for Pakistan [which we have presented and projected them as an ISLAMIC state] due to political awareness and pashtun character of saying no to dictation then kill them along with their dependents and present this case as a proof of Pakistan's claim that Pakistan is fighting " war on terror" to get american bucks and saudi petro dollars.

Pakistan [infact Punjab] benefits in eaither way as if a pashtun is killed then a rebelius spirit is killed and pakkistan gets monmey too and if not killed then he is a zealous soldier of "ISLAM" and hence would fight for ISLAM while in reality supporting and strengthening the Punjabi empire.

There are however some ideological and consciosu taliban who have known this tactic and strategy and they are against the banana state of Pakistan.However less they may be in number ,they are good for Pashtuns [and termed as bad taliban by pakistani military authorities].

I would suggest to those type of anti imperialism and pro pashtun taliban that they should have some politically conscious and pashtun charactered people with you who are well versed in technology and media warfare and continue your Jihad against the Punjabi hegemoney of military and cilvil bureaucracy which has made a lot of pashtun kids orphan, a lot of pashtun parents helpless and a lot of innocent youngsters dead and destroyed.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The strategy of Pakistan towards Pashtun Taliban is pretty straightforward.

Buy their loyalties for Pakistan and let them fight for Pakistan in Afghanistan for nothing [just fooling them to fight against KUFFAR [infidels] and occupation forces].

If they refuse to fight for Pakistan [which we have presented and projected them as an ISLAMIC state] due to political awareness and pashtun character of saying no to dictation then kill them along with their dependents and present this case as a proof of Pakistan's claim that Pakistan is fighting " war on terror" to get american bucks and saudi petro dollars.

Pakistan [infact Punjab] benefits in eaither way as if a pashtun is killed then a rebelius spirit is killed and pakkistan gets monmey too and if not killed then he is a zealous soldier of "ISLAM" and hence would fight for ISLAM while in reality supporting and strengthening the Punjabi empire.

There are however some ideological and consciosu taliban who have known this tactic and strategy and they are against the banana state of Pakistan.However less they may be in number ,they are good for Pashtuns [and termed as bad taliban by pakistani military authorities].

I would suggest to those type of anti imperialism and pro pashtun taliban that they should have some politically conscious and pashtun charactered people with you who are well versed in technology and media warfare and continue your Jihad against the Punjabi hegemoney of military and cilvil bureaucracy which has made a lot of pashtun kids orphan, a lot of pashtun parents helpless and a lot of innocent youngsters dead and destroyed.

Yes, and USA, Britain and the rest of powerful countries with powerful spy agencies are stupid. But Pir Rokhan got it all figured out.

[pir_Rokhan]

They were stupid but with the passage of time and increasing pressures over Pakistan they have realised the fact that Pakistan is not sincere in non state actors from the tribal belt as they were inhabited there with there support and facilitation.

In my opinion Gen Musharraf used the GWOT as intelligently as Gen ZIA had used the Afghan war situation to his advantage. Afghan across the Durand line have lost a lot in both. In the first case it was the inhabitants of the bar watan who lost more and gained less while in the Musharraf case it was the inhabitants of the law watan who lost more and gained less. In both cases we were used as cannon fodders in the name of Islam. And I dont say Islam has to do with it. Ofcurse our ignorance,political unawareness, compromising our national interests and the crookedness of our enemies the Punjabis and the Saudis were all responsibel for this loss.

My figuring out may not be that ingenious an analysis however I have the advanatge that the game was played and is being played on mine and yours land and we are the direct affectees so even if we dont want to understand the siutuations and sufferings are compellign us to understand.We have the first hand knowledge of whats is happpening so we have advantage over those who are sititng far from our rugged and ruined land in their bedrooms.Hence we should have the confidence not to get impressed by these agencies and countries that much.

The biggest critiq of US foreign policy , historian and writer of biography of Obama is a friend of mine and I have written a review for his book.

[pir_Rokhan]

I think Pakistani Taliban is much different than Afghan Taliban?

Absolutely right however not all Pakistani Taliban as most of the Pakistani Taliban are also pro ISI , for example ,those in NWA, however the Mehsuds ,most of them are anti Pakistan hence the operation in S.W.A.

Also the policy of Pakistan towards Pakistani taliban of SWA is different than that towards the rest of the country as well as Afghanistan.

The Afghan Taliban are adored and projected as they are destroying Afghanistan [though in their own intentions they might be doing good and according to Islam and Pashtunwali] while the Taliban one the Pakistani side are deamonised so that the masses have a hatred towards them [as they are anti Pakistani]. To distinguish those who are pro ISI then Pakistan uses the terms good taliban for them.

In the long run however , my analysis is that once all these talibans realise that they are being bullied by the ISI and being used against their own nation , land and interests,they will revolt against these stooges and will take their traditional revenge for the atrocities committed by pakistan army over pashtuns.

[شمله ور خراساني]

They were stupid but with the passage of time and increasing pressures over Pakistan they have realised the fact that Pakistan is not sincere in non state actors from the tribal belt as they were inhabited there with there support and facilitation.
In my opinion Gen Musharraf used the GWOT as intelligently as Gen ZIA had used the Afghan war situation to his advantage.

Afghan across the Durand line have lost a lot in both. In the first case it was the inhabitants of the bar watan who lost more and gained less while in the Musharraf case it was the inhabitants of the law watan who lost more and gained less.In both cases we were used as cannon fodders in the name of Islam.And I dont say Islam has to do with it. Ofocurse our ignorance,political unawareness,compromising our national interests and the crookedness of our enemies the Punjabis and the Saudis were all responsibel for this loss.

My figuring out may not be that ingenious an analysis however I have the advanatge that the game was played and is being played on mine and yours land and we are the direct affectees so even if we dont want to understand the siutuations and sufferings are compellign us to understand.We have the first hand knowledge of whats is happpening so we have advantage over those who are sititng far from our rugged and ruined land in their bedrooms.Hence we should have the confidence not to get impressed by these agencies and countries that much.

The biggest critiq of US foreign policy , historian and writer of biography of Obama is a friend of mine and I have written a review for his book.

Since you are such a well informed man, explain to me this: Is Pakistan acting as a unitary actor in this game? Do all groups and factions inside Pakistani government and army follow the same policy?

For someone who claims to be a political analyst on facebook, you sure do lack knowledge of basic models of analysis for analyzing states and organizations.

I will help you to become an even better political analyst. Read Graham T Allison's book called Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Absolutely right however not all Pakistani Taliban.Most of the Pakistani Taliban are also pro ISI , for example ,those in NWA, however the Mehsuds most of them are anti Pakistan.Hence the operation in S.W.A.

Also the policy of Pakistan towards Pakistani taliban of SWA is different tha that towards the rest of the country as well as Afghanista.

The Afghan Taliban are adored and projected as they are destroying Afghanistan [though in their own intentions they might be doing good and accordign to Islam and Pashtunwali] while the Taliabn ont eh Pakistani side are demonised so that the masses have a hatred towards them [as they are anti Pakistani]. To classify those who are pro ISI then Pakistan uses the terms good taliban for them.

In the long run however , my analsysis is that once all these talibans realise that they are being bullied by the ISI ad beign used agaisnt their own nation ,land and interests,they will revolt agaisnt these stooges and will take their traditinal revenge for the atrocities committed by pakistan army over pashtuns.

So, what if Pakistan invades NWA? What is your "analysis" worht once NWA is destroyed like SWA?

[pir_Rokhan]

Since you are such a well informed man, explain to me this: Is Pakistan acting as a unitary actor in this game? Do all groups and factions inside Pakistani government and army follow the same policy?

For someone who claims to be a political analyst on facebook, you sure do lack knowledge of basic models of analysis for analyzing states and organizations.

I will help you to become an even better political analyst. Read Graham T Allison's book called Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I will summarise the response as power is gona be off in some time.

Pakistan on a state level is not presented by the policies of its political institutions but its miitary institutions. Hence while the political govt have prudent policies which are pro masses in the long run, the military junta are always interested to see their own vested interests.

Pakistan's policy in the GWOT was a double game played by the agencies under the auspices of military. However the intrinsic and internal contradiction of Pakistan's basic nomenclature is what contributes to uncredibility for it in the international politics. The extremist / fundamentalist elements have a different agenda and they attribute it to the basic justification of pakistan while the military institutions has a totally different agenda which is nationalistic and that too pro punjab. It involves their vested interests as well as that of other stake holders who share the benefit.

Regarding the models of political analysis, I will be very frank. Trust me most of these models are theoretical and good to be taught in training centeres and courses. The essence and crux of thr discourse is that Politics is a normative science and I analyse things considering vested interest as the axis of whole scenario.

No person or organisation or state would like to do things as exercise in futility. The higher echelons of power are dictated by their own interests in third world countries with dictatorships or moanrchis or loose titular head democrcies which they intepret as national interests and rarely would it happen that the personal interests of an authority coincides with the national interests. In democratic countries the interest is institutionalised and hence national interest is taken into consideration to a good degree.

Having said that there is no harm in reading all these models which enlists all these rules for the fools type of long dry and impractical discussions by academicians who do not know the ins and outs of what happpens behind the closed doors.

I myself have designed systems for organisations while automating their business processes and implemented them in projects and trust me we simply ignore all that theoretical crap which we had studied in software engineering.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Analysis is the work of academia. And they rely heavily on theories. The whole purpose of a theory is to help you understand. That's why it is called theory.

If you want to be a political analyst, try to learn a few basic theories so you can write stuff that don't look like it was written by a typical conspiracy theorist from developing countries.

Pakistan on a state level is not presented by the policies of its political institutions but its miitary institutions. Hence while the political govt have prudent policies which are pro masses in the long run, the military junta are always interested to see their own vested interests.

Pakistan's policy in the GWOT was a double game played by the agencies under the auspices of military. However the intrinsic and internal contradiction of Pakistan's basic nomenclature is what contributes to uncredibility for it in the international politics. The extremist / fundamentalist elements have a different agenda and they attribute it to the basic justification of pakistan while the military institutions has a totally different agenda which is nationalistic and that too pro punjab. It involves their vested interests as well as that of other stake holders who share the benefit.

I must acknowledge, for the first time you wrote something that does not look like conspiracy theory.

[gadoonwal]

ISI is the mother of the so called talibans terrorists.
Punjabis establishment created these elements to destroy and divide us.
They are playing this drama in waziristan,swat,bajaor and Afghanistan.
They want Talibans in Afghanistan to create a puppet govt or i should say to colonize afghanistan and make its 5th province.
It is realy sad that our poor sadagan pakhtana are not aware of the dirty plan of dirty isi.
The name of holy islam was abused and used by the pakistani establishment in the entire region for its political purposes.During the Dawood khan era the pakistani establishemtn invited Gulbudin and Ahmad shah Masood to start an arm struggle against Dawood Khan cuz his govt is un-islamic.The reason behind this ,,,white lie,,,of pakistani govt was to destroy the govt of great ,,athal Dawood Khan,,.Dawood Khan for the first time took strong stand on the issue of durandline.
The pakistani govt and isi supported the mujaheedin to stop the red army not to enter Pakistan.The pakistani govt was fully aware that the afghan govt will take over pashtunistan with help of USSR.Here once again the ISI owned mullas back up the **** govt.Qazi Husain once said that ,,rosaan sra kapir de o amreekanian shna,,,
I am not a comunist but we welcome any help from anyone supporting us in our struggle.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Dear Sanger.

Its not a question of invading NW, its the question of, what if Pakistan did not attack Taliban, why didnt the Taliban declare Shariat in Pakhtunkhwa or other parts of Pakistan before Army attacking a few elements.

Secondly, Pakistan Army is in North Waziristan in the 1000's, they will do as before, shift its assets to a different location, away from public and media.

When Taliban figures get hit, for example there is a well known Taliban figures such Haji Omar Khan who when injured go for hospital treatment in Peshawer.

Why dont so called security forces arrest them there or prevent their treatment?

When these militants get hit by Drones, they get treatment from Army hospitals.

Regards

[pir_Rokhan]

^I agree. But USSR was not really going to help us.

The communists came on the request of Afghan govt and made Kabul an advanced and sophisticted capital which was ahead of it contemporary capitals while the ISI backed taliban despite their achievments on bringing peace could not bring progress to Afghanistan.

The USSR was a balance of power for the the US in a bipolar world while Pakistan made it a unipolar world by fighting the war of her interests at the cost of Afghan future and then Taliban made Afghanistan forever dependent on Pakistan as planned by ISI after they took the reigns of power.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The communists came on the request of Afghan govt and made Kabul an advanced and sophisticted capital which was ahead of it contemporary capitals while the ISI backed taliban despite their achievments on bringing peace could not bring progress to Afghanistan.

The USSR was a balance of power for the the US in a bipolar world while Pakistan made it a unipolar world by fighting the war of her interests at the cost of Afghan future and then Taliban made Afghanistan forever dependent on Pakistan as planned by ISI after they took the reigns of power.

Yes, they made Kabul a sophisticated city while few miles outside the city the leveled entire villages and massacred thousands of Ghalji Pashtun nomads from Logar to Zabul.

I guess a human life is of no value when you can get Microrayon in return.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Pakistani Taliban are also freedom fights just their hig high leader are corrupt.

the lower soldiers fight for Pashtun rights.

They dont fight for Pashtun rights. What are lower Soldiers? they are all follower a regional commander.

Ive never met such fools in my life, they are all money thirsty and power hungary.