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  • Lets Remedy a Few Things

    I wanted to write a post to defend a member that I think is rather valuable if you read his work closely and separate emotion out of it. This defense is addressed to the Pashtunkhwa members of this form regarding a member I hold in high esteem: GraveyardofEmpires.

    Let me explain myself:
    I think that you are allowing Graveyard's posts to seem like insults because you are not weighing closely what he is saying.

    Your options on the Afghan side of the fence and within your own ranks are as follows:

    1) Afghans who follow the philosophies of Mr. Saleh, a non Pashtun that loathes Pashtuns and generally is afraid of Pashtun dominance in Afghanistan. These folks, you will commonly see, deny reality and generally make absurd generalizations such as "there is no way and no how any Afghan Pashtun is a part of the Taliban." Once confronted by reality they will go on to say "Well there is no way and no how that the "Afghan" Taliban are predominantly Afghans... they are Pakistanis secretly. Once again, absurd and non evidence based. Their general motivations are to work against Pashtun interests regardless of where it comes from. Unfortunately for you, in their pin the tail on the donkey game, they pinned it on Pakistan.

    2) Afghans who are a part of the oligarchial Pashtun, Persianized elite that fled during the Russian Invasion. These folks are diasporized in many Western nations. When their rural and rugged AK carrying brethren dispatched the Russians they beat their chests in glee noting that the mighty Afghans had taken down the Soviet Empire. They rode their rural brethren's coattails to establish a fake identity. In fact, unlike General Washington, Mr Jefferson, and the American elites, these folks did not stand by their people in their time of need. They, like Mr. Maliki and Mr. Chalabi, did not earn the right to lead... they are attempting to take it by fiat. They know that Pakistan is a safe haven for their Afghan brethren that are seeking to unseat them. They created the narrative of the Taliban being a purely Pakistani creation, without any Afghan identity, to assuage their conscious over killing their people using American firepower. These folks are the equivalents of the Sherpaos, the Arbabs, the Achekzais, etc.

    3) Afghans who generally dont like Pakistan because of bad experiences as refugees... but who generally are so busy trying to survive that they could care less about who's jandaa flies over Kabul.

    Within your ranks:

    1) ANPers/PMAPers who are former avowed Marxists who now don the clothes of secular capitalists to undo religious gains. These folks find affinity with group 2 above... but even groups 1 and 2 loathe the anti religious identity these folks are trying to erect over the Pashtuns.

    2) Pashtuns that are simply fed up with the status quo economically and otherwise.

    then there is Graveyard of Empires.

    In my opinion, he is your best option. Here is why:
    He is not affiliated with the above groups. He is a part of a grouping that is not calling for the destruction of Pakistan simply because he wants to create a Zahir Shahesque reality over you or because he wants you to pay taxes to Kabul or because he wants you to put Karzai's face on the rupee. Instead, he looks at the issue of sovereignty and understands it clearly. He neither wants Karzai above his head, nor does he want Zardari above your head. The proof behind this is that he has endorsed many non pashtun elements with Islamist tendencies.

    As opposed to the other groups above, he does not wish death and destruction on you... he seeks to awaken your Pashtun identity, a great identity, within you. He has reprimanded his own on the other side of the line for similar slave like mentalities.

    In summary, when you put all of Graveyard's written commentaries together what you see that emerges is a picture of a young man that understand the crucial concept of sovereignty and is preaching that mantra to you.

    In a way, he is not openly stating it, but he is a moderate Muslim himself telling the pashtuns to wed themslves to their own religious identity that stands out in the personages of folks like Ahmad Shah Sadozaay or Mir Waais.

    He is pointing out that in these Pashtun genes are brains and brawn and that it is time to take back your destiny and answer the call of God.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    its not what but how you do something which matters.

    I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

    non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

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    • #3
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      Last edited by Yaggi; 01-23-2016, 02:17 AM.

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      • #4
        In summary, he is telling you that you have fallen pray to a narrative put on you by people who do not have your best interests at heart. Generally, they have their own self interests at heart and are taking you along for the ride. The disenfranchized FATA rebellions should signal to you that the stories being made up about how the FATA people are simply super happy with Pakistan and that any religious individual that seesk to establish Sharia is automatically an enemy, Indian agent, or paid NDS agent. While it is true that the FATA folk generally were willing to live and let live within the confines of the nation state of Pakistan, that was contingent on their autonomy. When they saw an infidel force within Afghanistan, many of their young religious men decided that it was their duty to fight these folks. When, using common sense, they questioned why their nation state sent arms to the same folks that were trying to kill them in their holy war struggle, and then sought to rectify it with reasoning... they were labeled as miscreants. Instead, their ferocity and their radicalism is a response to the double game. Graveyard is defending these folks and attempting to get you to understand that a complete lie is being told to you. If the establishment of Pakistan, tomorrow were to deem Imran Khan a threat to its national integrity, it would eliminate him as well.

        My guess is that if an honorable person, be he of Arab, Panjabi, Afrikaaner, etc descent took the helm of Pakistan and made a moral stance despite the outcome, regarding the illegal occupation of Afghanistan... even if every Pashtun of Pashunkhwa backed this individual, I bet you GraveyardofEmpires would applaud this individual. Moreover, if said individual treated everyone in the land the same, deposed the nonmeritocratic system in Pakistan, and implemented the laws of God... I hardly think he would call for your destruction.

        Just my 2 cents worth.
        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Yaggi View Post
          no use....pakistani pathans saying why non pakistnai
          pathans on this forum??? simple because pakistani pathans
          pakhtun identity lost and loosing quickly because of pakistani
          media 24 hours none stop hindistani culture imposition from
          kid school to high school to college you brainwashing happening

          only reason why some pathans and pakhtuns from kp here
          is because maybe their parents teach them some past history
          or giving lesson at home that is only reason other
          you see that most pakistani pathans are lost case they
          enjoy abrar haq bilo de kaar jawan songs not pakhto songs

          what we can do is hit hard and make them wake up
          because just look here their zameer is dead

          we making point after point all they doing is bring
          stupid question for example admin is agent mod is agent
          site going down site going up forum dying forum living
          their position so stupid pathetic makes you sick


          my friend from khyberpakhtunkhwa liked pakistan so much until he started reading history and now he hates paki government..

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          • #6
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            Last edited by Yaggi; 01-23-2016, 01:10 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Yaggi View Post
              no use....pakistani pathans saying why non pakistnai
              pathans on this forum??? simple because pakistani pathans
              pakhtun identity lost and loosing quickly because of pakistani
              media 24 hours none stop hindistani culture imposition from
              kid school to high school to college you brainwashing happening

              only reason why some pathans and pakhtuns from kp here
              is because maybe their parents teach them some past history
              or giving lesson at home that is only reason other
              you see that most pakistani pathans are lost case they
              enjoy abrar haq bilo de kaar jawan songs not pakhto songs

              what we can do is hit hard and make them wake up
              because just look here their zameer is dead

              we making point after point all they doing is bring
              stupid question for example admin is agent mod is agent
              site going down site going up forum dying forum living
              their position so stupid pathetic makes you sick
              Exactly, so take away their focal point. The minute you take away this Afghan Pashtun versus Pakistani Pashtun narrative as Shayesta and Admin are trying to do... the deck of cards folds in on itself... the phantom enemy vanishes... and the true enemies faces comes into full focus.

              Remind them of their great history, of a single Sadozaay who led them to Islamic greatness and of a Sher Shah. Just as Americans, from time to time reawaken to their heritage... blood is thick my friend... you can only run so far from it.

              Right now, their focus is on two nations that are sold to them as a threat: India and Afghanistan... with Israel running the show behind the back and America as a player implementing policy by force. There is some truth to various threats...every nation state (except Canada it seems) has existential threats.

              So just as Americans are told that every Muslim is out to impose Shariah on them (idiotic since Shariah cannot be imposed on those that do not endorse it and different law systems apply).... and they are bombarded with this (when in reality it is their government's interventionist policies that are hated)... so too does the Pakistani government augment the threats and play for its own benefit.

              Its really no different than Americans trumpeting democracy at home... and pertending to trumpet it abroad, while installing leaders... nation states in the modern era are governed by elites that have their own interest at heart. They attempt to generate a false benefit for their people to gain critical mass.

              So basically, remove the false narrative of a malignant Afghanistan from the mix. Then, each of these false players (the Afghan elites and the Pakistani elites), you will see, are sending the same messages to their respective populaces for their own gain and to sustain a nonmeritocratic system that is not by and of the people.
              Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 07-10-2011, 11:54 PM.
              "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

              Comment


              • #8
                Graveyardofempires is an example of the common rural Afghan.

                Very well said. I have been trying to say this, but I didn't know exactly how. I would like to add some stuff.

                I would like to reemphasize one point. Group 2 (the secular, persianized Afghans) oppose Pakistan on the premise that it is solely behind the opposition to the US in Afghanistan, and that the Afghans who are opposed to the US intervention, do so out of servitude to Pakistan's interests. They want us to believe that these people are solely working wholeheartedly to raise the Pakistani flag above Kandahar, and that they do the bhangra instead of the attan. This group also exist in KP, and parts of FATA. The fact is these very people are who question peoples Pashtun identity in fact have unfortunately very un-Pashtun ways. These people are the cancer in Afghanistan and KP, FATA. I have seen and spoken to them. Historical and current evidence demonstrates their lack to fight for their ideals (un-Islamic and un-pashtun are they are). Hence, this lack of will allows them to betray their own country and support foreign intervention. It is this support for foreigners they continue to demonstrate that renders this group unacceptable to people like GraveyardofEmpires and Sangar, and the vast majority of Afghans, especially in the South and East (the backbone of Afghanistan).



                People like Graveyardofempires, and the overwhelming majority of Pashtuns oppose Pakistan due to their support (even if under pressure) of the US intervention (supply routes and such and such).

                So there is this big difference when Sangar says "Paki" and when some others here says "Paki." Sangar says "Paki" because Pakistan supports the US intervention in Afghanistan, and knows that without Pakistan, the intervention would have been difficult. On the other hand, some others says "Paki" because they label opposition to the US intervention and and the Kabul puppet government as something that only Pakistanis would do. If this was really true, it would be great to be a Pakistani. This thinking of theirs denies and refutes the natural resistance to foreigners, Pashtuns have always had, and continue to have. This imagined idea seeks to discredit Afghans who are opposed to US intervention.
                Last edited by Guest; 07-10-2011, 11:57 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yaggi View Post
                  all pakhtuns from kp when coming out of that little
                  controll box and looking history smell truth and realize
                  the great game played with their community they
                  no longer pro pakistan this is truth this is reality
                  which pathans having hard time understanding because
                  pathans brainwashed they only seeing one direction

                  same with me my family after swat operation we know
                  truth my family and everyone see first hand what happening
                  but what can we do even here on internet we coming
                  isi policy of silence and hiding truth from out side world

                  i promose gurantee more more pakhtuns will realize
                  if truth is shown and spoken gureantee 1000%

                  this is why in pakistan journalists KILLED ALL TIME!
                  Speak the truth with history. As I noted, the facts speak for themselves. Argue history until a dead end point is reached and it becomes purely about opinion. Then, you have beaten your opponent into a corner. Cite references with firm grounding and no one will be able to malign you.
                  "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yaggi View Post
                    all pakhtuns from kp when coming out of that little
                    controll box and looking history smell truth and realize
                    the great game played with their community they
                    no longer pro pakistan this is truth this is reality
                    which pathans having hard time understanding because
                    pathans brainwashed they only seeing one direction

                    same with me my family after swat operation we know
                    truth my family and everyone see first hand what happening
                    but what can we do even here on internet we coming
                    isi policy of silence and hiding truth from out side world

                    i promose gurantee more more pakhtuns will realize
                    if truth is shown and spoken gureantee 1000%

                    this is why in pakistan journalists KILLED ALL TIME!
                    yes i dont think the admins should silence you

                    because the truth is bitter. this is not defence paki forum and the only way to educate people is to keep an open mind for the truth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No one is silencing Yaggi, and no one will silence Yaggi as long as he stays within our rules. The minute we see a bunch of Fbombs in every single posts, along with a multidimensional array of Pashto curses, we get concerned and we warn members. That's all. No one will be silenced as long as they debate in a positive manner. Members can even feel free constructively criticize me, or others. As I've said, we don't ban members, members force themselves to be banned with their e-tongue.
                      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        in moments of history, interests of several regional nations may align as we see in regards to Afghanistan. You have China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, and the rest of the SCO members opposing any US presence in the region. In short sum, whether they say it or not, whether they are open about it or not, their interests coincide with the Afghans interest in ending the US occupation. Now, this has nothing to do with the Afghan perspective, and especially, the Pasthun perspective at all.

                        The Afghans, and most importantly the Pashtuns will never tolerate foreigners, and a foreign-backed government. Just check a headline to get a feel for the ground realities (which Group number 2 tries to ignore)

                        Whether a regional country's interest coincides with theirs (Afghans) or not, it is irrelevant to them. It is in their advantage today, that the regional countries are all backing them in achieving their goal of forcing the foreigners to leave Afghanistan.
                        Last edited by Guest; 07-11-2011, 12:06 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hasanullah View Post
                          yes i dont think the admins should silence you

                          because the truth is bitter. this is not defence paki forum and the only way to educate people is to keep an open mind for the truth
                          Yes, but as I said, it is a good intellectual exercise to collect facts and to unleash them. If your opponent talks about Pakistan and its preservation and its interest for the sake of Pashtuns, it is fair to utilize facts to rebut this. There are a great many out there. The central and pivotal point behind all of this is that there have always been divisive forces in the region (ethnic divisions) and uniting forces (Islam). There have even been unifer empires (Ottomans etc). The issue here is to find out where the best interests of the INDIGENOUS population lies. What we can definitively prove is that much of the middle east and central asia as well as south asia is divided along lines divised by outsider powers because of feeble minded groups that were in power previously and are sustained. For example, teh same Kuli Khan Khattak who bowed to the British has his descendents on the takhth in regions of Pakistan. The same Arbabs that sold out various Pashtun patriots and killed their own have their descendents on the thrones. It was for a time the same in our own regions. Zahir Shah and Nadir Shah were British backed in many senses.

                          This route of argumentation will force your opponent to STUDY history and understand his destiny.
                          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
                            its not what but how you do something which matters.
                            Laughable to say the least Idiot, because it comes from you. That pretty much defines why everything you've done amounts to failure. hahaha.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pashtuns of Pakistan are not fool to become influenced by propagandas of afghans. Durand line is an international border and afghanis should learn to respect it.
                              graveyard is one big fool who along with unknownprince thinks that talibans have started separatist movement of pashtunistan in pakistan. The kid's mind is total mess.

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