poisonous ways of snakes and scorpions-50 killed in KPK

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This verbal jugglary again to evade the main question i.e., if you cannot shoot at the Americans, how come you blow any X, y, ..., Z in Khyber Bazar ( just to assuage your insane emotions of revenge). Rationally and ethically, if the asymetric warfare cannot succeed, why justify it (to harm your own people)?

Furthermore, it is not that simplistic...The Arab should not have targetted a super-power from Afghan soil for an Arab cause....If they had not done what they have done and not sheltered that person, UN would have not mandated US/NATO forces...Now why don't they stop the violence to leave US/NATO without any excuse to be in Afghanistan...

Regarding the last part... I think that it is a reasonable question... but I think the answer lies in the fact that when you look at Korea, Latin America, JAPAN and other regions that America has been in... when hostilities have ceased... the super power remains present.

So the boy on the ground might tell you that he has no gaurantee that the super power will leave and that the only example where this occured was in Vietnam through long hard fighting in which many civilians also died.

Personally, I do think a portion of what you say above makes some modicum of sense.

You are correct in the debate regarding whether it was correct strategy for Deceased Arab Individual to attempt to initiate a war of attrition in the area.

In fact from what I understand, Muhammad (S)'s strategy was to "fight the near enemy" and not the far enemy.

This act however can be separated from the indepent struggle of the Afghan as 92% of Afghan men surveyed had never heard of 9/11 per International Council on Security and Development :

http://www.icosgroup.net/2010/report...e-perceptions/

Moreover, now that said Arab is deceased... even this moral imperitive has ceased to be right?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This verbal jugglary again to evade the main question i.e., if you cannot shoot at the Americans, how come you blow any X, y, ..., Z in Khyber Bazar ( just to assuage your insane emotions of revenge). Rationally and ethically, if the asymetric warfare cannot succeed, why justify it (to harm your own people)?

Furthermore, it is not that simplistic...The Arab should not have targetted a super-power from Afghan soil for an Arab cause....If they had not done what they have done and not sheltered that person, UN would have not mandated US/NATO forces...Now why don't they stop the violence to leave US/NATO without any excuse to be in Afghanistan...

This post was the closest thing I've seen yet to your true emotions and logic. I actually appreciate it and it gave me a view into your mind. You and I could have fruitful discussions if you actually stray from the party line a little and discuss things in this fashion. Where I disagree though is that Said Deceased Arab was actually fighting for an "Arab" cause... the history of the Muslim world is far more complex. Despite you saying that there is no binding link... as you saw in Mr. Ghaznavi's TV special even he, an agnostic feels for the Palestinians. Across the Muslim world, the status of the Arabian peninsula, the support for the Saudis, the status of the dome of the rock reverberate and result in a focal point of anger. So to label these issues as simply: Arab causes... is not doing anyone any service.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This verbal jugglary again to evade the main question i.e., if you cannot shoot at the Americans, how come you blow any X, y, ..., Z in Khyber Bazar ( just to assuage your insane emotions of revenge). Rationally and ethically, if the asymetric warfare cannot succeed, why justify it (to harm your own people)?

Furthermore, it is not that simplistic...The Arab should not have targetted a super-power from Afghan soil for an Arab cause....If they had not done what they have done and not sheltered that person, UN would have not mandated US/NATO forces...Now why don't they stop the violence to leave US/NATO without any excuse to be in Afghanistan...

Finally, I will end with this tonight. You have the ability to be a great individual for your people and for humanity, but you need to understand and at least try to empathize with what motivates people. A mass of people do not all wake up one day with the same craziness. Human beings generally accord to biological principle, whether it is with offensive of defensive action.

For instance... I would be a fool if I did not understand that the historical life trajectory of empires is not to recede or to leave politely. As countries grow stronger and expand their reach.. it takes economic cataclysm, outside forces, etc to stop their expansion.

Once you recognize what motivates that boy in Khost or Kalat e Ghilzai, instead of heaping calumny on him and calling him desert bound and Arabized etc, you can talk him towards your goal by making it apparent to him that you get why he is angry. He needs to see that you do not simply think him an nihilist or bent solely on death or destruction. He wants to see that you fathom what he is worried about, his aspirations for his religion and people, etc.

You have this innate capability in you brother, but you just need to grow outside of this nationalist rhetoric. Become a humanist instead.

[ghundal]

[QUOTE=BarakzaiAbdali;434794]

Finally, I will end with this tonight. You have the ability to be a great individual for your people and for humanity

Until he realizes that he has to support his people at all times, and back them at all times when they are surrounded by treachery. You can only unite, and not divide. Division has been done in the past, and yielded only bad results for us as a collective group. You can never support the people who are waging a failed war of aggression against our people. This he must accept. This is etched in stone golden rule, putting political ideas aside.

Once you recognize what motivates that boy in Khost or Kalat e Ghilzai, instead of heaping calumny on him and calling him desert bound and Arabized etc, you can talk him towards your goal by making it apparent to him that you get why he is angry.

He has to understand this. The Afghans who are standing today are mostly between 20 and 40. They are a new generation who have unfortunately, only known war.

[ScimitarXEdge]

If one is not completely insane, one would not call that a legitimate military target...Why should our our brother and sisters die for the restoration of desert honour?

Because simply, that's not what it is; it's freedom to live by the Truth and Live with the right way of life ...rather than becoming enslaved by some manufactured distorted warped corrupted form of life.

if you feel that is "desert" honor then in reality you're apart of the problem

as for what would constitute sane or insane; tell us is it sane for militaries to set up garrisons around highly populated areas, and basically use the surrounding population as human shields?

[ghundal]

Finally, I will end with this tonight. You have the ability to be a great individual for your people and for humanity, but you need to understand and at least try to empathize with what motivates people. A mass of people do not all wake up one day with the same craziness. Human beings generally accord to biological principle, whether it is with offensive of defensive action.

For instance... I would be a fool if I did not understand that the historical life trajectory of empires is not to recede or to leave politely. As countries grow stronger and expand their reach.. it takes economic cataclysm, outside forces, etc to stop their expansion.

Once you recognize what motivates that boy in Khost or Kalat e Ghilzai, instead of heaping calumny on him and calling him desert bound and Arabized etc, you can talk him towards your goal by making it apparent to him that you get why he is angry. He needs to see that you do not simply think him an nihilist or bent solely on death or destruction. He wants to see that you fathom what he is worried about, his aspirations for his religion and people, etc.

You have this innate capability in you brother, but you just need to grow outside of this nationalist rhetoric. Become a humanist instead.

they aren't even nationalists.

I am more nationalistic than them. They in fact are an insult to the term nationalist.

He can keep calling me a snake and scorpion- these are great creations of Allah(swt). The snake has a photographic memory, and the scorpion has a great sting. Both defend themselves. All of Allah (swt) creations defend themselves from tyranny, aggression, and brutality.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You still are evading the fundamental point....How is the indiscrimate killing of those that have got nothing to do with the militancy of US and the counter rabbid militancy and the associated savage ideologies of the insane Islamists justified?

It's not justified; but people who are ACTIVELY collaborating, (key word here actively) do not distinguish themselves from the things they are collaborating with (American Military/Pakistani Crony Establishment). Thereby the cycle continues.

If asymetric warefare is moral and justified why don't you join it? On ethical grounds something that is futile rather self-destructive should never be justified let alone prescribed for others...

The Morality and Ethical basis of Asymmetric Warfare is defined by the disproportion of military power. The participation or lack there of has nothing to do with the moral significance of something. It's moral to feed the hungry and homeless, but how many of us do it? Many moral things we ourselves do not participate in.

However I would rather agree with you; suicide attacks or purposeful self destruction is not morally valid; but asymmetric warfare is not tantamount to using suicide attacks.

I wonder what these 50 poor guys that got a job and may be were the only earning hands for their families had got to do with one girl killed by US (I don't justify that but it is evident it could be called collateral but not indiscriminate)?

It's a sad situation and you make an extremely valid point; but what scenarios like this demonstrate is everyone in the assembly line is being used as a patsy. Poor guys are duped into dying to defend or perform the agenda of a nefarious body.

On the issue of collateral damage vs. indiscriminate killing, this seems to be merely bias. collateral damage is just indiscriminate killing given an excuse.





If

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

So you say they are not innocent.....some of you have justified suicide attacks on innocent people...i think this should not go un-noticed....

Roara, they are hypocrites.

They use big words, and phrases and copy and paste text from websites to appear clever and intellectual, but in reality, they are deluded.

Barackzai is suppose to be a Dr, a Person who saves lives, and yet he supports Alqaeda policies while living it good in the US of A.

Same with the rest, its typical and cowardly to live a life in the west but tell your fellow Pashtun to live a life of poverty.

HYPOCRITES!

[faye]

so, where did you say you live, mr hate?

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Toramana exactly, these closet alqaeda lovers, dont understand,that those Arabs should have never planned attacks on western targets on Afghan soil, when they came for revenge, we all suffered in the end, the people who had nothing to do with Arabs.

Arabs are the root cause of all the problems in the Pashtun region, Punjabis just immitate them because they suffer from a inferriority complex.

Its a dangerous situation! Like I said, the only option is no option, we should expell all Arabs off Afghan Land. Wherever they go they cause problems, just like the UK, you heard of the finsbury park area in London, you got Arab immigrants there living on the social, calling for the beheadings of politicians.

Its probably genetic!they are not over the fact they no longer have an empire!

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

so, where did you say you live, mr hate?

Go away! I dont want to speak to Closet-Paki-Applogists. You are the mouthpiece of ISI! and I dont know why your Pakistani Punjabi Husband has put you up to this! lol!

[faye]

oh, so you are the coward living in the west calling for you 'brothers' to go fight another war, yes? hahaha.....keep up the bs, mr hate.
you don't seem to like many of your pashtun brothers on this forum. strange.......are you really who you say you are??????????

[ScimitarXEdge]

In Pashto, they say "thindar pa Talash olaido, khra yai da Ramorai waiwra..."...An innocent girl was killed in Afghanistan, which is very bad---and the savage kill 50 people (Pashtuns) in Shabqadar(if it were not for the Arab honour---)---so you kill more of your people to take your revenge...

It isn't for arab honor; the colonialism that is experienced in the middle east and other parts of Asia and Africa is the same one we experience; this makes our struggles the same ones. We're all in the same boat; it's the Imperialism of Europe and North America that catalyzes this, not Arabs . Therefore the motive is for the honor of Human Justice. something universal and transcends ethnicity or culture.

I mean let's get real here, Sayyid Jamaluddin Aghani was Afghan, his response was to the Brtish and french, not the British/french responding to him.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Pakistani Ultranationalist is a goof off ....what he cant prove about something he speculates and fabricates a fantasy world around to compensate for his weak and empty jargon


he dares calls others hypocrites while he' glows with glee that the British accept him as a flow angrez like some subservient mentally colonized drone with an inferiority complex suffering with this desperate hope of one day being cherished by his master.

He's the true hypocrite here.

[faye]

i know, last night he was fantasising about joining the british navy to attack pakistan. poor kid, but his heart (hahaha) is in the right place.