Pakistan's army ridiculed after Bin Laden raid

[MDresden]

Pakistan's army ridiculed after Bin Laden raid

A text message doing the rounds in Pakistan reads: "For Sale: Obsolete Pakistan army radar; can't detect US 'copters but can receive Star Plus; only 999 rupees."

Star Plus is a popular television channel from India.
Another message says: "What a country! Even Osama is not safe here."
These messages are a reflection of the growing frustration among Pakistanis over Monday's raid in which a team of US Navy Seals flew by helicopter from Afghanistan to a compound in the northern town of Abbottabad, killed Osama Bin Laden and then whisked away his body.
“This is what they are paid for, to defend the borders, not to run bakeries and banks and real estate empires”

End Quote Nasir Khan Swat resident

For the first time in decades, the powerful Pakistani military establishment has failed to find an excuse to pin the blame on the "bloody civilians" who now control political power.

The army is not only suspected of having sheltered Bin Laden, it is also under fire for having failed to detect the raid.

So while few people in Pakistan are really in love with the civilian government, everybody knows that this time an explanation must come from the military

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13311257

[faye]

i see, the mission begins..hate pakistan..kill pakistanis, kill,kill, kill, kill. so this is your real mission on the forum is it mdresden? very handy to keep both afghanistan and pakistan destabilised, yes?

[ScimitarXEdge]

All Pantomime, if America was serious about it's woes with Pakistan, Islamabad would have had a regime change already.

this is all a smokescreen to shift focus off of the fact that America funds, trains and supplies Pakistan in practically every practical level of it's operations.

when Pakistan does a crime ALWAYS tie it with America doing the crime.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i see, the mission begins..hate pakistan..kill pakistanis, kill,kill, kill, kill. so this is your real mission on the forum is it mdresden? very handy to keep both afghanistan and pakistan destabilised, yes?

Faye, now you see it. Its not just his mission, in fact I dont think Mr. Dresden cares all that much about Pakistan unless it affects his goals in Afghanistan. Rather, Americans seek stability within Pakistan because it compartmenalizes problems. For the American Empire, if Pakistan were to be rent asunder and the NWFP and other assets were to be retaken, the issue there for them would be that if radicalization were to occur at anytime down the road, the nuclear arms might fall into Islamist hands.

However, this is one of the key slogans of ANP/PMAP/Mellat/United Front.

The idea here by that crowd though, which is what I have been trying to say all along, is that there is a vocal minority from Pakistan itself that wants a NATO intervention there under the false assumption that such an action would lead to the US simply handing over the former NWFP to Afghanistan saying: "here Mr. Karzai, a gift for your hard work."

An "Afghan" proponent of heavy handed military action is this sick man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrullah_Saleh

They paint a picture, unsubstantiated to me at this point per absent data, that the masses of northern Pakistan are yearning, like lost lovers, to be rejoined with Afghanistan in its current status. This, unfortunately, is not the case.

The ultimate problem behind all of this is that these people want to use Mr. Dresden to accomplish their goals instead of picking up guns and doing it themselves. It is in fact very similar to the way that Israeilis have used American firepower to their ends, creating an absurd situation where we do Israel's dirty work and get none of the benefits. In fact, that approach is a national security deficit for us.

My advice usually to these people is that Mr. Saleh, Mr Achekzai, and their supporters ought to take up arms and head to the hills to accomplish this task themselves. I am sure that they can form their own special forces unit. An example of an individual that actually put such thoughts into action was a gentleman named Bugti who unfortunately was killed in an very unsavory fashion and this has resulted in his poor people paying the price.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^Mr.Bugti was among the few Baloch elders who supported the creation of Pakistan, he was also a great flip flopper of his era, sometimes a Baloch lover the other times the Chief minister where the same army would salute him.

@Faye I doubt US needs to do some messages, considering they pull the strings for that country. There is no doubt that the failure of Pakistan army in protecting an area like Abbotabad has started a crisis of confidence in an institution supposedly the defenders of Pakistan's ideological and geographical "boundaries".

[BarakzaiAbdali]

^^Mr.Bugti was among the few Baloch elders who supported the creation of Pakistan, he was also a great flip flopper of his era, sometimes a Baloch lover the other times the Chief minister where the same army would salute him.

@Faye I doubt US needs to do some messages, considering they pull the strings for that country. There is no doubt that the failure of Pakistan army in protecting an area like Abbotabad has started a crisis of confidence in an institution supposedly the defenders of Pakistan's ideological and geographical "boundaries".

Im not praising Bugti. I am noting that he took up the gun at the end though. The same flip flopping might be said of Achekzai, Asfandyaar and the whole lot of them. Its one sad mess.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This is the central problem with political parties in pakistan and afghanistan in general. Sure in the US you see an oligarchy where Pappa Bush begets Baby Bush and Pappa Clinton passes leadership to Mamma Clinton... but in general you do have the chance for meritocratic leadership to develop. Usually the true meritocrats like Ron Paul are silenced in many ways... Party politics yields absurdity.

[faye]

bls, there have been articles where it is admitted that the propagandists have admitted they are trolling forums to do their sly propaganda. suddenly there seems to be heavy anti pakistan rhetoric on this forum.
obama has said there is no evidence the pakistan govt knew that osama was in their country. so people can take that info how they will. it all ( the osma drama) still appears dodgy to me. too many discrepancies and an opening for more fear and potential '9/11's'

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^Not suddenly (btw not propaganda, there is a portion of Pashtun population that is anti-Pakistan)..it has been on many pashtun forums for awhile.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

bls, there have been articles where it is admitted that the propagandists have admitted they are trolling forums to do their sly propaganda. suddenly there seems to be heavy anti pakistan rhetoric on this forum.
obama has said there is no evidence the pakistan govt knew that osama was in their country. so people can take that info how they will. it all ( the osma drama) still appears dodgy to me. too many discrepancies and an opening for more fear and potential '9/11's'

I can clarify. In their defense, these Pashtuns here are not paid. Look up ANP/PMAP/Mellat etc. and their politics. The issue with pakistan has been central to their politics for generations. Its not new. A part of their argument has historical legitimacy (i.e. Northern Pakistan is historical Afghan land and Pashtuns are Afghans), but my general issue with them is that they lace it with a political agenda that means that they will settle for nothing less than the imposition of either Marxist (in Achekzai's original case until he recently chameleonized) or secular hegemonic government.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I guess what I mean Faye is that they would have fought Ahmad Shah Abdali tooth and nail had he been resurrected today. His ideologies and theirs run counter. They have invented some dark Abdali narrative that turns him into a secularist that has no historical validity. They usually run into the trouble when his historical interactions with Shah Waliullah are brought into the foraay.

[BarackzaiObama]

I can clarify. In their defense, these Pashtuns here are not paid. Look up ANP/PMAP/Mellat etc. and their politics. The issue with pakistan has been central to their politics for generations. Its not new. A part of their argument has historical legitimacy (i.e. Northern Pakistan is historical Afghan land and Pashtuns are Afghans), but my general issue with them is that they lace it with a political agenda that means that they will settle for nothing less than the imposition of either Marxist (in Achekzai's original case until he recently chameleonized) or secular hegemonic government.

i AGREE
My BARAKZAI brother we are above everyone. KANDAHAR FOR LIFE.

[faye]

i noticed it with khyaal, ultra and now dresden, getting intense recently. i know it has been a long term situation.
ron paul, b.a. seems definitely sincere but doesn't come across very good in a debate. i wish you well there but they will be wanting to put another stooge in place, not an honest guy.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i AGREE
My BARAKZAI brother we are above everyone. KANDAHAR FOR LIFE.

I was a royalist as a youth, but evolved into a noninterventionist eventually. I am very happy that Haji Jamaal was smart enough to not stand in young Ahmad Khan Sadozai's way and stepped out of his way. That Barakzai Popalzai alliance was what stunned the region in a way that was never seen before or after when we poured out of those hills lol. Who knows? Maybe one day again a child of Afghanistan who never left will lead it to greatness.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

i noticed it with khyaal, ultra and now dresden, getting intense recently. i know it has been a long term situation.
ron paul, b.a. seems definitely sincere but doesn't come across very good in a debate. i wish you well there but they will be wanting to put another stooge in place, not an honest guy.

Dresden has not fully read the history and I dont really group them together. He is just a soldier and I challenge him here and there but I understand his mentality. He is just defensive of his national pride and the vision given to him ... its only because his military goals align with their Afghanistan vision... The elite here will only prop up Pakistan... so Matt will not likely see action in Pakistan anytime soon. It looks like they will mainly conduct rapid raids to hit leadership of insurgency groups.

Regarding Dr. Paul, I think this is a mark of honesty though in terms of his debating skills. Once, Mr Reid said to a young Senator from Illinoise: "you have a great speaking capability" and the young president to be replied ina cocky way: "its a gift Harry, what can i say?" In fact, Clinton is also a phenomenal speaker who learned a lot from watching Baptist preachers in the south deliver fiery sermons. Both men are opportunists and politicians to the core though.

The others are increasing their rhetoric because they feel that this is an opportune time to ramp up the pressure on Pakistan because they hope that it will destabilize it to the point of the loose confederacy being broken up. They however are at a loss because Mr. Cantor and Mr. pawlenty as well Mr Kerry want to continue the aid package... and Pakistan has the whip hand currently with its NATO supply routes.

What I urge you to do is to do what I have done all along... each time they clamor for an intervention in Pakistan challenge them to A) Learn to shoot B) Learn to shoot straight C) Learn rugged guerilla techniques and D) Fight their own battle against the Pak government E) Leave Mr. Dresden out of it.