afghans elders want to bury osama in afg !!

[MDresden]

If they knew what a Mu'tazillah was, most of them are not religiously learned and can't read anyways.

Man you are so quick to disregard people. You do realize that unfortunately the literacy rate in Afghanistan is very very low?

[ScimitarXEdge]

[QUOTE=MDresden;430870]Let's piece this apart for a moment.

If we ever stated something as an illusion...I'm there would need to be someone to answer to. An illusion is something portrayed as something else. 99.9% of the time we attack after being attacked...essentially defending ourselves.

In a country you're occupying hence; it's an illusion.

So you admit our intentions are of a good nature...if not you wouldn't use such a word as "heroic." Is there a certain act or series of actions you deem that "may" be "heroic?" Or is this another umbrella term you used?

Well usually deception and smokescreens are not usually good natured; but if you're a morally degenerate imperialist I guess the lines of morality are skewed.

So these actions that can be reasonably deemed as "heroic" are somehow exposed as a joke or farce? Which action or heroic thing that we have done is a joke or farce? If you are so wishy-washy on defintions of "farce" and "heroic" that may say something about you.

again read what was written above, just because you portray something as heroic; doesnt mean it is good natured, it just means it's propaganda.

here's one thing you have done, shot unarmed women, raped women, use population devastating weapons, depleted uranium to cripple a population and cause birth defects.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Man you are so quick to disregard people. You do realize that unfortunately the literacy rate in Afghanistan is very very low?

That's pretty much what I was saying

[MDresden]

That's pretty much what I was saying

Thanks. I had to clarify that...to confirm an idea in my mind.

[MDresden]

It appears to me that Edge is trying to be a "knight in shining armor" in these forums...because he thinks that Afghans are so beneath him...low literacy rate, low cash, etc.

That's different from the U.S. view point where we understand that and trying to help and fix them...not be a knight in shining armor...because we won't be here to help forever.

Take note how many schools and jobs we have created and how much american currency is in flux with Afghan people themselves. Although I'm certainly not advocating the US dollar should be used in Afghanistan (I don't believe it should) but it does mean that Afghans are making money and bettering themselves.

[ScimitarXEdge]

It appears to me that Edge is trying to be a "knight in shining armor" in these forums...because he thinks that Afghans are so beneath him...low literacy rate, low cash, etc.

That's different from the U.S. view point where we understand that and trying to help and fix them...not be a knight in shining armor...because we won't be here to help forever.

Take note how many schools and jobs we have created and how much american currency is in flux with Afghan people themselves. Although I'm certainly not advocating the US dollar should be used in Afghanistan (I don't believe it should) but it does mean that Afghans are making money and bettering themselves.

How do I think Afghans are beneath me ....any quotes directly from me where I say such a thing?


and as for helping; If you're really trying to help why don't you stop the Capitalist order which alters and disrupts the Natural way of life of all human societies? End techno-industrial society , polluting the planet and the military industrial complex?

This shows your "creating jobs" and "giving money" is all just a smokescreen for nurturing and cultivating a country that is indoctrinated to be exploited

This exposes your real agenda.

[MDresden]

1. "stop the Capitalist order which alters and disrupts the natural way of life of all human societies."
That's the idea...change things for the better, help the people out: with an education; with jobs; with a sense of "I can do this" attitude.

2. "End techno-industrial society"
So wait...you allow yourself to experience such luxuries but would rather not other people (claiming "your" people) to have such nice things in life?

3. "Polluting the planet"
We are always trying to go greener. Over the years our smoke stacks on our factories (a major polluter) have gotten so much better and cleaner.

4. "Military industrial complex"
Where we go, so does our equipment. If you mean at a local base we have...we can't just live in a hut with no security. We have to build safe places so we can help our mission and goals of making the Afghan people better.

5. "creating jobs and giving money is a smokescreen"
If that is true, and lets just play devil advocate for a second and say it is...it's still benefiting the Afghans with little to no help to America/Americans other then an idea of general "overal safety" because the Afghan people can/will take care of its own.

[ScimitarXEdge]

1. "stop the Capitalist order which alters and disrupts the natural way of life of all human societies."
That's the idea...change things for the better, help the people out: with an education; with jobs; with a sense of "I can do this" attitude.

If that was the idea, to "change things for the better" you'd be trying to restore their natural way of life, not, define education and occupation under capitalist terms.

2. "End techno-industrial society"
So wait...you allow yourself to experience such luxuries but would rather not other people (claiming "your" people) to have such nice things in life?

Who says I'm here for luxury? Maybe I have other plans; to stop a machine you have to get inside and dismantle its parts.

3. "Polluting the planet"
We are always trying to go greener. Over the years our smoke stacks on our factories (a major polluter) have gotten so much better and cleaner.

The Go Green motto is a big industry smokescreen, you can't "Go Green" by strip mining and building condominiums just because they use solar paneling. Horse crap.

4 "Military industrial complex"

Where we go, so does our equipment. If you mean at a local base we have...we can't just live in a hut with no security. We have to build safe places so we can help our mission and goals of making the Afghan people better..

Your argument is circular; because capitalism is intrinsically exploitational; and by your own admission, instead of trying to help the people survive independent of that, you're training them to be compliant with the globalized capitalist market system.

Thereby having a local base and safety are enablers for exploitation; hence the Military Industrial Complex should be abolished.

5. "creating jobs and giving money is a smokescreen"
If that is true, and lets just play devil advocate for a second and say it is...it's still benefiting the Afghans with little to no help to America/Americans other then an idea of general "overal safety" because the Afghan people can/will take care of its own.

Well that's like saying that Drug Dealing and Selling Crack is helping Poor African American families thrive in a market economy. The fact is; conforming to an imposed global capitalist market violates the natural way of life of these people and thus the benefits are in context of what imposed conditions, rather than the natural relationships people of the region have to their land. So the argument is a red herring. You said it yourself "general over all safety" it's really to use Afghanistan to prevent your hegemony on the world from being threatened. Therefore if we analyze beyond the illusion, it's exploitation, not benefit.

This is just the 2011 version of giving Native Americans Glass beads as a "benefit".

[BarakzaiAbdali]

1. "stop the Capitalist order which alters and disrupts the natural way of life of all human societies."
That's the idea...change things for the better, help the people out: with an education; with jobs; with a sense of "I can do this" attitude.

2. "End techno-industrial society"
So wait...you allow yourself to experience such luxuries but would rather not other people (claiming "your" people) to have such nice things in life?

3. "Polluting the planet"
We are always trying to go greener. Over the years our smoke stacks on our factories (a major polluter) have gotten so much better and cleaner.

4. "Military industrial complex"
Where we go, so does our equipment. If you mean at a local base we have...we can't just live in a hut with no security. We have to build safe places so we can help our mission and goals of making the Afghan people better.

5. "creating jobs and giving money is a smokescreen"
If that is true, and lets just play devil advocate for a second and say it is...it's still benefiting the Afghans with little to no help to America/Americans other then an idea of general "overal safety" because the Afghan people can/will take care of its own.

Wrong again Sir, you are basically lining the pockets of Mr. Mehmud Karzai at the expense of the people.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010302175.html

The title of the article?

U.S.-funded infrastructure deteriorates once under Afghan control, report says

[afghan]

the osama devotees should jump into the sea to visit osama and luckily join him there.

[MDresden]

BTW, I want to clear up something. The pathetic pakis come on here talking about "civil war" and then you hear about Pakis talking about how they think Afghans will attack Pakistan. I'd say so be it...after their security is built up.

However, that's not a civil war, you are only neighboring countries.

[MDresden]

U.S.-funded infrastructure deteriorates once under Afghan control, report says

You are what we call in the states a "window watcher." You look at everything really quickly and sum it all up before you know the facts.

U.S.-funded infrastructure means the schools and agricultural outlets we are creating and have created. The Afghans are learning day by day better ways of using such things.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You are what we call in the states a "window watcher." You look at everything really quickly and sum it all up before you know the facts.

U.S.-funded infrastructure means the schools and agricultural outlets we are creating and have created. The Afghans are learning day by day better ways of using such things.

I was born in the states and have lived here all my life Matt. I grew up in the South, lived with Marines during medical school, and continue to have close friends. My father is US Army/Defense affiliated. That is exactly why I have such an affinity for Michael Scheuer and Ron Paul. A large part of my medical training involves taking care of the Veterans at one of the US's largest VA institutions as a physician in training. You are not a realist like the World War 2, Korean Era, and Nam veterans I treat. I believe that you are a part of a generation raised on Superman legends and GI Joe, led to believe that you have some higher calling to save the world at the expense of destroying the republic.

You have no idea what these people are capable of. Mr Mehmud Karzai utilized Kabul Bank funds to partake in projects in Dubai. How does one even ethically reconcile that? You have Zardari on the one side of the fence that you are propping up with massive amounts of money (at the expense of the taxpayer) and then you have Mr. Karzai who now is playing the same game.... keeping a fabulously corrupt family regime business in play through your lives.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=11586564

Regarding your fantasy that you are here to save the world as the last son of Krypton, I urge you to read the works of the founding fathers and read what Adams wrote about such things:

So the diaspora ought to follow the advice of founding father John Adams when he stated so eloquently. You are disobeying General Washington and Mr. Adams and basically contributing to American interventionalism that will create a 1000 more Bin Ladins unforunately:

"And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?
Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.
She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.
She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....
[America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice."

[MDresden]

I am 29 years old...superman was "comics" back then...not movies and television.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I am 29 years old...superman was "comics" back then...not movies and television.

Im not too much older than you... it was on TV as well. That isnt the point Matt. Just read read and read... Here is an interview with Michael that reviews the history Sir.

YouTube - Conversations With History - Michael Scheuer

Best of luck and in case you ever need anything or plan on being treated up here, give me a heads up.