Osama Bin Laden dead (Confirmed)?

[ghundal]

Well it creates an interesting dilemma for the arab imperialism theory. If anything its the nexus out of the Panjab that controls and even plays with the lives of Arabs that felt disenfranchized by their home state. In the case of Osama Bin Ladin, each and every point he made about the Saudi regime was correct 100%. I for one am not ashamed to say that. Regarding US interventionalism, he was correct there. He was the response to it... not the catalyst for it. I agree with you that this certainly has shown me 200% how willing Pakistan is to play the part of the prostitute for the highest bidder. This is one sick game.

A post that pretty much describes that facts on the ground.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

What is all this. when did he help the afghans. It was the other way around. The afghans helped him, the afghan war with the soviets actually brought some hope for the Arabs to break away from these autocratic regimes that have enslaved their own people. It was the Afghan success in repelling the soviets from Afghanistan that gave the Arabs courage, before that they were referred to as women by Israel. Why do you think he hid among the Pashtuns, his own people couldn't even save him from the people he was fighting.

Don't ever say he helped the Afghans, it was the other way around.

This is exactly true. His own words and writings confirm what Khushaal is saying. He refused to take credit for the victory and said he played a small role.

[khashayar]

Yes Loopy studies their, he is now beating himself over the head for missing the $25 million bounty that was right under his nose.

lol

[khashayar]

Quite big of a city , very peaceful and beautiful, people visit it often in summer.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Bewaaaaaaaaaaaaa… off course you will…for it’s the absolute truth. After all, who are the Pakis if none other than the same servants of colonial Brats who aroused the irony and the suffering which continue to this today in beloved Afghanistan. Is the Pakistani establishment not the same mercenaries of the British Raj engaged in violence and betrayal against their own? Did they not serve Colonial Britain to the end, with their reward having been the wholesale theft of other people’s lands?

Here is some facts about Abbott-abad.
The town of Abbottabad in British India was the headquarters of the then Hazara district, and was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853….. He remained the first Deputy Commissioner of the Hazara district between 1849 until April 1853. Abbottabad became and is still an important military cantonment and sanatorium, being the headquarters of a brigade in the Second Division of the Northern Army Corps.[3] The garrison consisted of four battalions of native infantry (Gurkhas and Frontier Force) and four native mountain batteries.]




For past 150 years…war and divisions have been forced on us first by the British colonialist and later their brown MeraasKhoraans….every time we attempt to break way…our blood were shed in the name of holy Islam…twice in less then 80s years Afghan state was destroyed under name of Islam…if we notice the rhetoric is same old….accomplice/beneficiary/victim…….ploys used to divide us. Create some benefectories and co-opt them, kill others after having used them, create victims and victors….send Pashtons kids to ‘Islamic Madrassa’ so they can learn how to kill themselves in the service of the fortress of Islam.
Yet our educated folks like yourself…even outside Afghanistan are busy cheering for dog of dogs, those naïve fools that don’t even know they are being used and abused….but thankfully, this drama will awaken our people to hard truth…sooner then later we need to realize the garbage of “Islamic brother” and ca ca de buffalo of Islamic Uma.

I dont agree with the latter. As I stated before, i agree with the first part of your assessment. My issue with your logic is that people who do the right thing shouldn't have their cause debunked simply because someone we don't like backs it for their strategic gain. For example, if tomorrow Pakistan decided to endorse Che Geuvara as a hero, that doesnt make him automatically wrong in his struggle to remove the Yankees from Latin America. Ive stated in the Osama Bin Ladin Scheuer Book thread that I do think its questionable that he utilized Afghanistan as a launching point to bog the US down in its war of attrition. At the end of the day however, the ultimate fault, of overturning democractically elected governments in Iran, arming Saddam, subsequenting disarming him and bombing his people, occupying Saudi, etc. gave Bin Ladin very legitimate grievances. I have stated multiple times that Pan Islamism is an ideal, the concept of Ummah, not very dissimilar to the Christian concept of Christ's Kingdom on Earth.

So to me, all this shows is that the gentleman in question assumed that the Islamists within the Pak Army and the ISI would protect him and he assumed wrong.

However, that Afghan that decides Karzai's is an imposed order deserves his right to fight. If he wants to establish a secularist government, a communist government, an Islamic state, a jiggalo farm, etc when he accomplishes this, I could care less. Morally however, the local fighting the superpower has the moral imperitive.

If anything Mr. Bin Ladin has joined the ranks of Mr. Guevara. Both died fighting. Per the review of the mansion it appears Mr. Bin Ladin was leading a very spartan life to his last breath despite the attempt to label the compound a mansion. They very much are afraid of his memory, hence hte sea burial.

The irony of it all is that the sea burial was exactly what was optimal for his goals as a salafist as he would not want a shrine present.

Once again contrast his death with that of Hussein, the impending demise of Gaddafi possibly, Ben Ali's stroke and heart attack (tunisian leader), and Mubarak's recent heart attacks.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

If you tell me that you are staying in a rather nice walled compound in Abbottabad, I can tell you in return that you are the honored guest of a military establishment that annually consumes several billion dollars of American aid. It's the sheer blatancy of it that catches the breath....

There's perhaps some slight satisfaction to be gained from this smoking-gun proof of official Pakistani complicity with al-Qaida, but in general it only underlines the sense of anticlimax. After all, who did not know that the United States was lavishly feeding the same hands that fed Bin Laden? There's some minor triumph, also, in the confirmation that our old enemy was not a heroic guerrilla fighter but the pampered client of a corrupt and vicious oligarchy that runs a failed and rogue state....

http://www.slate.com/id/2292687/

Quiet the contrary it appears that the compound was not built for luxury. The ABC videos show in inside tour of it. He appeared to still be living a spartan life there. Others confirmed, independently his ability to live a very warrioresque lifestyle ala the Canadian family and his own internal enemies. He also lived in larger quarter he self financed in Sudan as well.

[Akherousin]

One substantial difference is Che Guevara turned himself in by saying "Don't shoot! I am Che Guevara, and am worth more to you alive than dead." Even though he knew he was going to be in IMMENSE pain, he preferred to stay alive in order to convey some final statements, believing that was the most glorious way of dying. Not to mention, he traveled everywhere and fought with his fellow friends fighting.

In contrast, Osama was holed up in mansions the whole time complying to ISI serving Pakistan's interests alone. Not to mention his son used a woman as a shield during the raid.

Not even close to the bravery of Che Guevara really.

[Baygham]

¬_¬
Islamic Scholars Question Bin Laden's Sea Burial - FoxNews.com
there

apparently a sea burial is only allowed if one dies at sea

I agree,

He should have been cremated and the ashes dropped down on GHQ Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

remember when mullah dadullah was killed in a firefight his body was put on public exhibition for all the global press and media to take pictures of.

also, sheikh osama in his videos always appeared gaunt as though he were living under harsh, cold conditions, in mountainous terrain, with a walking stick and an AK-47 by his side as well as dressed in camou. he was clearly fighting on the front lines.

these fools are just trying to defame his character with such outrageous lies. 1 mile from a paki military base, mansion, with his youngest wife, etc.

give me a break. we all know that's bs..

Even if he was living within a mile from the base... it doesnt mean that they engineered it. Also, there is nothing wrong with living with one's wife in the field of battle. The American Civil warriors did it in Lincoln's day. They use the term mansion for exactly the reasons you state though. There is no proof he was living gaudily like Hussein or Mubarak. The concrete barbwire reinforced walls were, as the CIA noted, well designed to hide someone like him. The reports also vary. Some reports initially here in the US indicated his wife tried to shield him. His ex saudi wife spoke highly of him previously and was not under duress to do so. The subsequent reports claim men grabbed the woman to shield him. The US also admitted that hiding in plain sight was something they did not consider until the courier led them to him without knowing.

[Digital Malang]

Yes Loopy studies their, he is now beating himself over the head for missing the $25 million bounty that was right under his nose.

who is getting the $25 million now?

[Baygham]

Quiet the contrary it appears that the compound was not built for luxury. The ABC videos show in inside tour of it. He appeared to still be living a spartan life there. Others confirmed, independently his ability to live a very warrioresque lifestyle ala the Canadian family and his own internal enemies. He also lived in larger quarter he self financed in Sudan as well.

Spartan life indeed, I bet he had a young wife (probably a gift from hira mandi) to blow him every now and then, between his prayers offcourse, while he took dictation from the ISI.

This is the best news I have heard in 10 years. Paki army sodomized in broad day light, and that too in its back yard. A few more raids, in the 'randi-bazaar' called pakistan and you can get 'mullah omar' and the other half dozen notables on the most wanted list as well.

New formula to find them.

Draw a 1 mile radius circle around all army barracks, compounds and cantonaments. select a high walled 'tableegi' approved dwelling. Calculate the male-rundi ratio (if greater than 1:2 than its a high value, if 1000:1 than its foot soldiers - ignore) and see how many black SUVs with tinted windows go in and out (to bring in more rundis). You will have your men 9/10 times. Finally no reason to waste time in pashtoon areas- the army cannot do this there as the rundi market is less well developed.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Spartan life indeed, I bet he had a young wife (probably a gift from hira mandi) to blow him every now and then, between his prayers offcourse, while he took dictation from the ISI.

This is the best news I have heard in 10 years. Paki army sodomized in broad day light, and that too in its back yard. A few more raids, in the 'randi-bazaar' called pakistan and you can get 'mullah omar' and the other half dozen notables on the most wanted list as well.

New formula to find them.

Draw a 1 mile radius circle around all army barracks, compounds and cantonaments. select a high walled 'tableegi' approved dwelling. Calculate the male-rundi ratio (if greater than 1:2 than its a high value, if 1000:1 than its foot soldiers - ignore) and see how many black SUVs with tinted windows go in and out (to bring in more rundis). You will have your men 9/10 times. Finally no reason to waste time in pashtoon areas- the army cannot do this there as the rundi market is less well developed.

Then you have a dilemma because your own polygamous husband-wife Farhat Taj Anderson claimed they were all bustin the groove in FATA. So you, my friend have the burden of many dead Pashtuns on your head for your advocacy.

[akbarkhan]

Spartan life indeed, I bet he had a young wife (probably a gift from hira mandi) to blow him every now and then, between his prayers offcourse, while he took dictation from the ISI.

Is this type of language allowed on a forum full of Pashtun women? I don't mean to offend you, but do you speak in those terms in the presence of your own sisters?

[eusuphxai]

Salam to all.

I have a very different take on it, just expressing my opinion so keep your guns down.

I have seen the pictures of the compound (you can search them on web). It doesn't seems firstly a place where Osama will stay, secondly there are some flaws in them pictures, for example when they are showing the wall through which they entered, there are no bricks around and room inside is in a nice order.
The reason I am saying this is that I think they didn't kill him today, he might be dead or they might have killed him.

So you might ask why all the drama, here is what I think.
Obama is stuck with economy and seems like he is going no where with it, his popularity is(was not anymore) going down.And next year is an election year. He I think staged it, and the reason I think it was staged are, throwing the body to the sea, americans are famous for showing off, and they would have showed this trophy for ages. at least a picture of him showing him dead?

Gen petraeus could have been a strong republican candidate, and is about to become CIA chief, If it was under his command he would have taken the credit, which he cant now.

Why pakistan is acting "weiredly", the answer may be, they have helped americans and not even taking credits, and even this "mission" will be enough to bring him back to white house, as a result he will make pakistan happy. Also gen petraeus is a hard liner practical sort of guy, if he were to become president he would have probably attacked pakistan, which apprently is out of question. the death of osama can break the momentum of recruitment.

It is just another take, might be completly wrong but just give it a thought and if it can make any sense to you.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

One substantial difference is Che Guevara turned himself in by saying "Don't shoot! I am Che Guevara, and am worth more to you alive than dead." Even though he knew he was going to be in IMMENSE pain, he preferred to stay alive in order to convey some final statements, believing that was the most glorious way of dying. Not to mention, he traveled everywhere and fought with his fellow friends fighting.

In contrast, Osama was holed up in mansions the whole time complying to ISI serving Pakistan's interests alone. Not to mention his son used a woman as a shield during the raid.

Not even close to the bravery of Che Guevara really.

Yes, but both American, Afghan, and Russian evidence showed he served directly on the front lines of the Arab Afghan units fighting the Russians. He moved up the chain of command and directed a geurilla war and a world wide insurgency. Che also had some balance to the asymmetry with Russian arms, tanks, etc in Cuba. It appears Mr. Bin Ladin died nearly in debt and was working with paucity of arms. I hardly think attempting to reinvent him does any service to your cause as you once again underestimate his reach and what he accomplished. He truly was America's Hannibal Barca.