Was Masood fighting for the Soviets?

[roadrunner]

Massoud appears to be a hero to the French, to some in Afghanistan, and I am at a total loss to explain why.

Some facts about Mashod.

1) He made a pact with the Soviets to allow them safe passage to the East to refuel their troops - was he fighting for the Soviet Union or for Afghanistan?
In 1983, Masoud agreed to a temporary cease-fire with the Soviets, who were then free to attack other areas. "Masoud deceived everyone," said a former commander of the moujahedeen, or holy warriors.
http://www.rawa.org/massoud3.htm

2) How did Massood KNOW there was going to be a Civil War before the Soviet troops had even left Afghanistan? - Did Massood plan on starting a Civil War and gaining power through mass murder?
The American spy who headed the CIA's efforts against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan credited Masoud with impressive military feats. But he added that, in the later years of the war, Masoud spent most of his time preparing for the coming civil war--not fighting the Communists.
http://www.rawa.org/massoud3.htm

3) More evidence that the Panshir Offensives were faked
General Gramov says Ahmad Shah Masoud in return continued to get Russian assistance. He says Masoud sometimes used to stage sham skirmishes with the Russian to put off chances of suspicions about his activities among other mujahideen groups.
http://www.rawa.org/massoud3.htm

What do people think of this.

Serious replies. Not witless kiddy stuff if possible, or thread derailment about ISI farting that caused Massood to let the Soviets through the North.

Was Massood fighting FOR the Soviets?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Ma'sood was not fighting for Afghanistan; this was merely a mythology built up by the French Media and others.

However this is not the blame of Tajiks, Panjshiris or anyone else; there were numerous very honorable and respectable Tajik Mujahideen, like Ismail Khan.

[roadrunner]

Ma'sood was not fighting for Afghanistan; this was merely a mythology built up by the French Media and others.

So why did the French build him up, if he was cutting deals with the Soviets?

That would make him a triple agent. First stabbing the Afghans in the back, second stabbing the Russians or the French in the back.

If he was cutting deals with the Russians, why did the French support him? Weren't they on opposite sides?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I'm not sure what the French interests were to be very honest, I won't speculate too heavily into conspiracy. But the French have long been against American policy, although originally America's allies, I think it was largely because a weaker American power structure could set the stage for France? After WWII France became a very minor world player. We can speculate all we want. I think the French just simply had nothing better to do.

[roadrunner]

Massoud has become an abstract symbol of the defeat of the Taliban, the defeat of the Soviet Union, and of the Afghan "resistance" generally. The French have even commissioned a series of Ahmad Shah Massoud postage stamps.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/WOL309A.html

So nomination for the Nobel Peace Price, commissioning stamps. All this when he aided the Russians who the French were supposed to be against.

Doesn't sound too sensible.

It's possible it was a tripartite agreement by the Russians, Massood and the French to put one over on the Pashtun tribes.

I'll forward a theory actually.

The French might have believed that Massood would do their beckoning in Afghanistan if he were leader. So if Massood's Army could remain intact, till after the Russians left Afghanistan, then Masood could make a swift power grab. The more Russian attacks on the Pashtun tribes, the weaker the Pashtuns would be to grab the presidency of Afghanistan, and so the easier it would be for Massood to sweep to power. I think this is plausible.

[ScimitarXEdge]

baaah lol I doubt it; remember the Puppet State in Power during the 80's was largely run by Pashtuns. Najibullah, one of the leaders of that era was actually from a related tribe as my family's. He was responsible for assisting horrible actions against other Pashtuns, such as but not limited to stripping and sexually assault Pashtun women and urinating on them

a Forum member MI6 aka Mazloomyarkhan aka Leech Walesa, who now despicably goes under the name Salahuddin, considers this man a hero.

What it is, is not an agenda against Pashtun tribes, honestly why the hell would Russia and some frenchmen give a flying F about Pashtun clans anyways? It's a power game, control , assimilate, exploit. Pashtun, Tajik it doesn't matter, europeans consume and discard like oafish animals we just happened to be in the way as it went through the rounds to South Asia.

[roadrunner]

baaah lol I doubt it; remember the Puppet State in Power during the 80's was largely run by Pashtuns. Najibullah, one of the leaders of that era was actually from a related tribe as my family's. He was responsible for assisting horrible actions against other Pashtuns, such as but not limited to stripping and sexually assault Pashtun women and urinating on them

Not really true. Najibullah was just a figurehead like Karzai.

Tajikistan's relations with Afghanistan, the country with which it shares its long southern border, have been affected not only by the cultural and ethnic links between inhabitants of the countries but also by the way the Soviet regime tried to use those links to ensure the survival of a communist government in Kabul after 1979. The Soviets put Tajiks from Tajikistan in positions of power in the Soviet-backed Afghan government and sent propaganda publications from Tajikistan to Afghanistan. Afghans were brought to Tajikistan for education and communist indoctrination, and Tajiks served in the Soviet military occupation of Afghanistan.
Tajikistan - Foreign Relations

a Forum member MI6 aka Mazloomyarkhan aka Leech Walesa, who now despicably goes under the name Salahuddin, considers this man a hero.

What it is, is not an agenda against Pashtun tribes, honestly why the hell would Russia and some frenchmen give a flying F about Pashtun clans anyways? It's a power game, control , assimilate, exploit. Pashtun, Tajik it doesn't matter, europeans consume and discard like oafish animals we just happened to be in the way as it went through the rounds to South Asia.

The Soviets did it for the Great Game, the ports in the Arabian Sea. They needed to get rid of the Pashtuns though since they presented an obstacle.

The French wanted massod in power. Weaken the Pashtuns, then their man is more likely to get into power.

Finally masood wanted power. So weakening the Pashtuns would be one of his goals.

All three of them had something to gain.

Pashtun clans are probably less pliable than Tajiks generally. If you want to install puppets, you need people who don't adhere to any codes too strictly.

[ScimitarXEdge]

All leaders are figureheads, even Massoud. However Najibullah was the leader of KHaD and KHaD was developed, trained, enabled and directed with collaboration with the Russians.

When you quote something, please don't deliberately leave out the source.


THIS IS the source you got it from

http://countrystudies.us/tajikistan/42.htm

There's absolutely no references here. While it's believable that Soviet Tajik soldiers were in their infantry, there is no evidence they constituted a large body of them. And while it's quite possible that Propaganda in Dari may have been composed in Tajikistan; there's no evidence that Pashtuns were somehow not at the helm because of this.

It's not just Pashtuns who stood in the way, All of Afghanistan stood in the way. And if you want to believe it, Pakistan too, but I think Pakistan may have been less of a threat given it's leadership.

By the way , next time give referenced sources.

here's a good reference to read to corroborate what I said.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jzX...bullah&f=false

Najib wasn't just a passive participant like Karzai; he was involved in killings and atrocities; he collaborated just as much as Massoud. Also what does that say about the Secular pashtun leaders in Pakistan who were ALL unanimously in support of the Russians and Friends with Najib? Why would they support Najib if the government was run by Tajiks? It means that what I was saying is right, Secularists are fake Patriots who use Pashtun identity to serve others agendas.

[roadrunner]

The source is there you brazened lunatic. I'm not sure how you could miss it.

I've had a look at your link and all it does is go on about Najibullah and Khad. I'm not disputing Najibullah ruled Afghanistan or that he was head of Khad at one time, Dohh.

I'm disputing your quote that the Communist government had lots of Pashtuns in it.

My link quite clearly says that the Communist government was full of Tajiks from Tajikistan, and not Pashtuns. Najibullah might have headed it, much like Karzai heads the current Afghan government.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The French wanted massod in power. Weaken the Pashtuns, then their man is more likely to get into power.

Finally masood wanted power. So weakening the Pashtuns would be one of his goals.

All three of them had something to gain.

Pashtun clans are probably less pliable than Tajiks generally. If you want to install puppets, you need people who don't adhere to any codes too strictly.

of course; but you forget in Pashtun history it has happened where certain clans and tribes have switched sides and often fight amongst each other. It's happening right now as we speak.

so being ethnically pashtun doesnt mean anything if people dont abide by those principles. And many people who became "educated" ; which is just a euphemism for brainwashed by Western interventionists, forsook Pashtun standards. Voila you had KHaD who werre KGB proxies and Massoud.

[roadrunner]

Also what does that say about the Secular pashtun leaders in Pakistan who were ALL unanimously in support of the Russians and Friends with Najib? Why would they support Najib if the government was run by Tajiks? It means that what I was saying is right, Secularists are fake Patriots who use Pashtun identity to serve others agendas.

What Secular Pashtuns in Pakistan supported Najibullah?

Secular Pashtuns in Pakistan, I think you mean those in the government, supplied the Mujahideen through logistics didnt they? Which ones were pro-Soviet?

[ScimitarXEdge]

The source is there you brazened lunatic. I'm not sure how you could miss it.

I've had a look at your link and all it does is go on about Najibullah and Khad. I'm not disputing Najibullah ruled Afghanistan or that he was head of Khad at one time, Dohh.

I'm disputing your quote that the Communist government had lots of Pashtuns in it.

My link quite clearly says that the Communist government was full of Tajiks from Tajikistan, and not Pashtuns. Najibullah might have headed it, much like Karzai heads the current Afghan government.

Because you edited it in after I mentioned you didn't post your source. The Communists did have lots of Pashtuns in it; any argument to the contrary is purely revisionism.

Your link says that yes, but

1.) your link has no references to support the claims there in, it is totally unsourced. Go look there's no citations in that page what so ever

2.) the references doesn't say MOST were Tajiks from Soviet Tajikistan, it just said Soviets transplanted some, it doesn't say to what degree. Even if we take it as fact, it doesn't contradict that Communists were largely Pashtun, the Afghan Army was primarily Pashtun.

3.) No; Najib didn't head it much like Karzai heads the Afghan government, he was ACTIVELY involved, there's no such thing as a Proxy for a Secret Police Enforcement Agency. Read my reference, it's a book, Najib was involved.

Pashtuns aren't all angels, look at the effing taliban and how wretched they are?

[roadrunner]

of course; but you forget in Pashtun history it has happened where certain clans and tribes have switched sides and often fight amongst each other. It's happening right now as we speak.

Can you name examples of wars with foreign invaders where Pashtun tribes have switched sides to that of the foreigners en masse?

[ScimitarXEdge]

What Secular Pashtuns in Pakistan supported Najibullah?

Secular Pashtuns in Pakistan, I think you mean those in the government, supplied the Mujahideen through logistics didnt they? Which ones were pro-Soviet?

Most of the current Pashtun natiomalists in Pakistan were Pro Soviet.

people like this guy




Look familiar?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Can you name examples of wars with foreign invaders where Pashtun tribes have switched sides to that of the foreigners en masse?

http://books.google.com/books?id=yvN...ritish&f=false


read where it says "the Multani Pathans were loyal to the British"