ISI-CIA’s dirty deal? —Farhat Taj

[Toramana]

Yeah, so because she says it... somehow she knows that the ISI did this... we must believe she has some source. Give me a break Toramana Farhat Taj ANDERSEN is a joker who writes charades.

As I said, she may have an extended family, please define where Mr. Andersen's lineage lies?

Had she not known it, she wouldn't have published her article in a reputed newspaper. As an analyst and writer she must have connections that leaks her the relevant information.

Rest the Anderson thing is irrelevant to this discussion.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Had she not known it, she wouldn't have published her article in a reputed newspaper. As an analyst and writer she must have connections that leaks her the relevant information.

Rest the Anderson thing is irrelevant to this discussion.

Relevent to the core. Please, tell us more about Mr Andersen, we insist. Otherwise no true Pashtun will take her word seriously. She has her links to Ajmal Khattak and all the other red cappers my friend, and those links are not lost on those that seek them.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Like I said that isn't proof..just speculation.
I have to entertain logic, what else shall I do..accept the premise that a person's personal life should dictate their skills (or lack of)?
I have my own issues with drones, but they are not as big of a problem as FCR. The primary concern should be reversing FCR and giving Pashtunkhwa (north and south) autonomy (at least within the federation of Pakistan)..but I digress. Now either show proof of the things I asked, or let us put her article to the test. Let us judge it by its merits. When the day comes that AIRRA is put to that academic tests, then of course that should be the topic at hand.

Please this is not a secularists vs religious debate....let us stick to the article. You are right, there is a fundamental issue regarding the number of casualties, but that can only be overcome if the army removes the media blackout in the region. It is very hard to verify any claims unless on a connections and he said she said basis. Until we don't remove rules like FCR and get rid of the Army's media blackout, we will be relying on many instances of substandard info.

BA you have to stop 'orientalizing' (if one can borrow from the late Edward Said) your own people. Bare foot, little girl of wana, tribesmen this or tribesman that. These are human beings, no need to add such ridiculous descriptions. Let us be honest, neither the secularists, nor the others can afford them this luxury, either Pashtuns opt for a autonomous free state to ask that FCR be revoked so they are treated like humans. That is a political and social issue that people ignore..because drones kaffir islamist sell more than FCR.

Who is fighting occupation on both sides of the border? Was Commander Duaran in that film the wealthy man that lived in teh villa? maybe at one point. Now look at him. He fights from a mud hut with little in the way of food and resources. Truly the Afghan warriors that fight as those that fought the British before them did, fight with bravery and are the simple people... not the Sherpaos, the Karzais, the Sherzais, the Khattaks, etc.

This is not orientalization. This is factual. This victory, similar to the Russian victory belongs to the brave amongst our people who, like their predeccessors did not flee in the face of the USSR juggernaut (Karzai, Sherzai, etc).

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Who is fighting occupation on both sides of the border? Was Commander Duaran in that film the wealthy man that lived in teh villa? maybe at one point. Now look at him. He fights from a mud hut with little in the way of food and resources. Truly the Afghan warriors that fight as those that fought the British before them did, fight with bravery and are the simple people... not the Sherpaos, the Karzais, the Sherzais, the Khattaks, etc.

This is not orientalization. This is factual. This victory, similar to the Russian victory belongs to the brave amongst our people who, like their predeccessors did not flee in the face of the USSR juggernaut (Karzai, Sherzai, etc).

Again they are the ones who suffered..the poor amongst us (for the most part, the rest intellectualize their struggles)..that is why we have terms like "bare footed Afghan" " tribal Afghan" etc etc etc. Now, Khushal Khan Khattak was a chieftain of his tribe, he fought for his people, so was Mirwais Hotak, Ahmad Shah was a general, Bacha Khan, Wazir Gul Mohmand, Wazir Akbar Khan etc. Pashtuns don't have an elite set up but if they did, these individuals were the closest things to that, yet they all struggled and sacrificed for their nation. It isn't a good thing to generalize the history of your people. Yes the sacrifices came from the bulk of the population (as is the case anywhere in the world).

If they fled to the juggernaut, may I ask, how did you end up in the US?

[Toramana]

Who is fighting occupation on both sides of the border? Was Commander Duaran in that film the wealthy man that lived in teh villa? maybe at one point. Now look at him. He fights from a mud hut with little in the way of food and resources. Truly the Afghan warriors that fight as those that fought the British before them did, fight with bravery and are the simple people... not the Sherpaos, the Karzais, the Sherzais, the Khattaks, etc.

This is not orientalization. This is factual. This victory, similar to the Russian victory belongs to the brave amongst our people who, like their predeccessors did not flee in the face of the USSR juggernaut (Karzai, Sherzai, etc).

The irony/contradition is, you are not fighting ...Instead are eagerly pursuing your medical degree/career in a post-modern state but at the same time are desiring a victory for your brethern-in-ideology against the infidel West..Don't know where would the poor people of Waziristan ultimately end up paving the way for that victory of ego for you....

Right now their lives are in tatters...I met a few families in Charssada and I was deeply moved by their plight...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The irony/contradition is, you are not fighting ...Instead are eagerly pursuing your medical degree/career in a post-modern state but at the same time are desiring a victory for your brethern-in-ideology against the infidel West..Don't know where would the poor people of Waziristan ultimately end up paving the way for that victory of ego for you....

Right now their lives are in tatters...I met a few families in Charssada and I was deeply moved by their plight...

Toramana, if you talked to the whole of the Wazir tribe and the whole of the belt on TV and convinced them to not fight and it was their own decision, I would have no qualm with that. However, as long as they fight against naked aggression and occupation... protecting you from the Pakistani Army on the one side the Afghans from the American occupation on the other side... I shall never lose sympathies for them. In this same way, I shall never lose sympathies for those young boys here in America who group up without a care and now have to kill those innocents for governing elites. Why? All because you and Salahuddin decided there was some phantom menace bogeyman that has its tentacles into the heart of all Pashtuns that read Quran-e-Karim is out to undo nonexistent gains.

That truly is sad.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Again they are the ones who suffered..the poor amongst us (for the most part, the rest intellectualize their struggles)..that is why we have terms like "bare footed Afghan" " tribal Afghan" etc etc etc. Now, Khushal Khan Khattak was a chieftain of his tribe, he fought for his people, so was Mirwais Hotak, Ahmad Shah was a general, Bacha Khan, Wazir Gul Mohmand, Wazir Akbar Khan etc. Pashtuns don't have an elite set up but if they did, these individuals were the closest things to that, yet they all struggled and sacrificed for their nation. It isn't a good thing to generalize the history of your people. Yes the sacrifices came from the bulk of the population (as is the case anywhere in the world).

If they fled to the juggernaut, may I ask, how did you end up in the US?

Very true and very fair question. My father left in 1969 before the fall of Zahir Shah and hit American soil around the time the Beatles broke up. So we were never refugees in the subsequent sense of the world.

I fully group my father into this category of folks that failed their nation. His redeeming quality? When asked by his Defense Department/Army Corps comrades to take a position alongside Tooryalai Wesa in Qandahar he refused. This in no way excuses him failing in his duty. But I asked him why he declined and continues to do so... his answer was simple: I left that place a long time ago and I'm not going to by privy to some poor street boy being interrogated for doing what anyone else of any nation would do. Dr. Safi of Laghman, close comrade of Baha Zarjon and Dr. Shinwari is another emigre with this same response when asked to return to lead Laghman.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Again they are the ones who suffered..the poor amongst us (for the most part, the rest intellectualize their struggles)..that is why we have terms like "bare footed Afghan" " tribal Afghan" etc etc etc. Now, Khushal Khan Khattak was a chieftain of his tribe, he fought for his people, so was Mirwais Hotak, Ahmad Shah was a general, Bacha Khan, Wazir Gul Mohmand, Wazir Akbar Khan etc. Pashtuns don't have an elite set up but if they did, these individuals were the closest things to that, yet they all struggled and sacrificed for their nation. It isn't a good thing to generalize the history of your people. Yes the sacrifices came from the bulk of the population (as is the case anywhere in the world).

If they fled to the juggernaut, may I ask, how did you end up in the US?

Also Mir Wais and Ahmad Shah were exactly the example that we ought to use. They were not exactly to the par of a Washington/Jefferson situation but they were able to build legions that penerated Isfahan and conquered Delhi's throne.

Now, we have failed Karzai, failed Khalilzaad, failed Sherzai, failed Sherpao, failed Swati Khans, etc. All cowards who left their people and lead from behind.

And failed Muhammadzai Khans to round it up.

[Toramana]

Toramana, if you talked to the whole of the Wazir tribe and the whole of the belt on TV and convinced them to not fight and it was their own decision, I would have no qualm with that. However, as long as they fight against naked aggression and occupation... protecting you from the Pakistani Army on the one side the Afghans from the American occupation on the other side... I shall never lose sympathies for them. In this same way, I shall never lose sympathies for those young boys here in America who group up without a care and now have to kill those innocents for governing elites. Why? All because you and Salahuddin decided there was some phantom menace bogeyman that has its tentacles into the heart of all Pashtuns that read Quran-e-Karim is out to undo nonexistent gains.

That truly is sad.

Well, the fact is, as in every society, there would be a few that will fight motivated/induced by money, ideology, or manipulated by other actors and factors...But it is also a fact that, 95% people don't want to fight after having gone through all the hardships they have been subjected to for the last 10 years...

I have concurred with the people of Swat and believe me, they would not spare a single family or individual with any link to Taleban once they got the chance...They told me how humuliated did they feel when they had to leave their houses and had to live in camps...or how insulting it would be when a little Taleb would come order them what to do or not ....

If you are thinking FATA people are kind of super-natural being fighting an endless war, that is because you are pursuing your life in the security of a post-modern state unaware or blind to the nacked realities of what it is to be in the midst of war (imagine childern, girls, mothers, fathers, death, killing, blood, etc.)....

Wayi chai drayam garai da nakhai manz wali

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Fair enough, but one wonders if a person is that supportive and admiring of their sacrifices...wouldn't it make sense to join them? I,for example, don't know who is who, so I would much rather educate myself and help my people in another way. You (and a few members here) seem to be very supportive..clearly you are not an outsider, so why not do what you blame the others for failing to join. I hope that makes sense.

Now about the article. It is very likely some deal-making went through, after all it was hyped up immensely in the media. It will be interesting what else happens.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Fair enough, but one wonders if a person is that supportive and admiring of their sacrifices...wouldn't it make sense to join them? I,for example, don't know who is who, so I would much rather educate myself and help my people in another way. You (and a few members here) seem to be very supportive..clearly you are not an outsider, so why not do what you blame the others for failing to join. I hope that makes sense.

Now about the article. It is very likely some deal-making went through, after all it was hyped up immensely in the media. It will be interesting what else happens.

The Soviet struggle and this struggle are interlinked in that way. Don't you understand that the failures of these Khans to lead the masses the way Jefferson and Washington and Adams did their men has resulted in this mess? I felt the tragedy when I read Abdul Salaam Zaeef's biography. The part that amazed me and touched me the most was how he recalled the idyllic days of his youth in the Zahir Shah era. Can you fathom that? This simple man and his ilk knew their leaders and expected them to lead as any leader would, against foreign occupation by a killing bloodthirsty Russian war machine. When Zahir Khan bowed out to Italian mudbathes he lost the right to lead.

My sympathies are not for those men that beckon and call from some stoop somewhere. Note that some here and I depart in this way. I have defined where I stand as a noninterventionist, so that my countrymen here need not be killed or kill and my brethren avoid the same calamity.

My point is not to beckon to you and Toramana to saddle up and join the struggle... my point, to rephrase Bob Dylan is to say:

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

Except replace Senators, and Congressman with Khans and Maliks. My point BLS is to say this man here, Commander Dauran:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5e5_1283088242

Is not some Islamist animal as Toramana makes him out to be just because he hates Islam so much. My role is to tell you that Commander Dauran is not being paid by Al Qaeda or some Wahabi propaganda machine... he fights because he is a simple man who saw his land encroached on.. he then took the defensive jihad posture demanded by Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_jihad

I am not maligning you, Admin Khan, kakargirl, or anyone else for not saddling up and doing anything. However, I am asking you to see these people for the brave warriors they are. Its a respect that even Donald Rumsfeld afforded these qurbaan giving men when right after the November 2001 bombing campaign he stuttered: "These people are warriors... they are tough rugged people and they are still fighting us without much." And this is the same man that laughed at the Iraqis for abandoning their posts and their guns, much less.

Now my ire is reserved for the Toramanas, Azmaals, Bayghams, and Oshos that seek to kill that man in the video using American proxies... I demand that these men, Toramana, M16/Maseed, etc. saddle up and go kill him with their own bare hands instead of sending American boys to do it.

The simple men on all sides are dying to serve these elitests and Karzai's own ends... not for the benefit of the world.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Fair enough, but one wonders if a person is that supportive and admiring of their sacrifices...wouldn't it make sense to join them? I,for example, don't know who is who, so I would much rather educate myself and help my people in another way. You (and a few members here) seem to be very supportive..clearly you are not an outsider, so why not do what you blame the others for failing to join. I hope that makes sense.

Now about the article. It is very likely some deal-making went through, after all it was hyped up immensely in the media. It will be interesting what else happens.

It is no different than those that celebrate Tecumseh and his Braves, William Wallace and his Scots, the Irish of Sinn Fein, and all who fought against aggression.

Remember BLS, history shows us lessons in progress to relate to it. Take a look at interlocuters like Qaddahafi, Hussein, Mubarak, Asaad, the two abdullahs, Edward Long Shenks, the colonialists.... Remember Caeser.

And then look at the men on the other side of the isle, The Robert Bruces, Tecumsehs, Shah Faisals, Vercingetorix, and all other men who did not sell out their people for a paltry gain. History remembers these men as those that died on their feet... not on their knees.

Look at how disposable the tin pot renta dictators and elites/feudals are... and the miserable end God has them meet because they were the worst of their people.

Did Mubarak, Qadahaffi, the Shah Pehlavi, Ben Ali, Abdullah of Yemen, etc foresee that selling their people and their dignity would result in a betrayal?

[PFtech]

Alright you two, take break.


Thread closed.