ISI-CIA’s dirty deal? —Farhat Taj

[BarakzaiAbdali]

A clear illustration of mental-midget Pakis disability.. trying hard to dismiss a serious argument by discrediting the character of person advancing it. In academic term this is called ad hominem argument fallacy….the arguments of this kind focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; they seek to discredit positions by discrediting those who hold them. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down.

To the mods: He threw down the gauntlet in that first line.

Oh trust me descendent of a Zikeraay Slave, resultant from Telai's one night stand, per your own words and defender of a nonexistent grandmother, we already smashed this argument of Toramanas long ago. Refer to the link. We already demonstrated conclusively AIRRAs statistics magic and hocus pocus, we demonstrated even more conclusively her rage at the American group that delved into subsequent studies destroying her own conclusions. You, the real Pakistani amongst us per your Peshawaraay bloodlines can sit here all you want calling people mental midgets. We more than showed all here what you were made of last night.

Za za pa kalaar shaa Telaieeyaa.

[salahuddin]

She is a big contributor to PakhtunKhwa Peace Forum and she is a friend of all the people in Waziristan. She makes the ISI agents fear for their lives. I actually provided her with some good material for her book such as Interviews in regards to the Militias in DI Khan some time ago.

ISI agents messed with the wrong man and they were punished for it.

What amazes me is the fact that Pakistani Media never show the beatings Pashtuns get from Pak Army men but two Punjabis make it headlines, same can be said about the Pashtun women who were raped by Tajik Facists in North Afghanistan.

Media is a powerful tool

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BA we can't speculate on a person's personal life, just on their legitimacy regarding there profession. In her case, either she is a worthy journalist or she is not. Whether she married a hindu, muslim or atheist is not relevant in my opinion. Secondly, she is not a politician or leader to represent anyone, she is a journalist and can only be judged on those merits. Also you are assuming about her personal life...how do you know if Mr. Andersen didn't revert to Islam but retained his name? It happens.

He did not. She ascribes clearly to anti Islamic methodologies and calls for wholesale desctruction of the tribal people via drone strikes she claims they welcome. Her AIRRA data has yet to hit the journals. Until then, her affiliations and inclinations go contrary to her claim to represent the Pashtun on the ground. Her personal choices go completely against the Pashtun girl in the village of Wana and their way of life.

And you ought to ask her why she hides her surname in the Eastern journals? Why is it good enough for Denmark, but not for the Eastern articles and Afghanistan targeted pieces?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

He did not. She ascribes clearly to anti Islamic methodologies and calls for wholesale desctruction of the tribal people via drone strikes she claims they welcome. Her AIRRA data has yet to hit the journals. Until then, her affiliations and inclinations go contrary to her claim to represent the Pashtun on the ground. Her personal choices go completely against the Pashtun girl in the village of Wana and their way of life.

And you ought to ask her why she hides her surname in the Eastern journals? Why is it good enough for Denmark, but not for the Eastern articles and Afghanistan targeted pieces?

1) Do you know this for certain? If you do, kindly show us the proof of her personal details and also prove to us why it makes her credibility as a journalist suspect.

2) Well that is the point of journalism (information from x's point of view on something) and discussion to hold the claims of others and see if they are verifiable. If they are not, then their credibility is suspect. BTW that is a fallacy, just because an x organization's has not "hit the journals" doesn't mean they are contrary. All it stands to prove is that, they have not been fully put to the test (if we go by strict academic standards, but then again most articles today in the news media are not judged by the same critiques as academic journals).

3) By your account you are not a pashtun girl in a village in Wana, and neither is she (or I and to be honest 99% of the members) here...so it is arrogant for us to assume this. We are not the vanguards nor chosen representatives of our nation. None of us have the luxury (or curse) to speak on the behalf of others.

4) I personally don't mind asking her...if she chooses to disclose it. However I don't know her personally, so for now I will judge her by her articles. Also these decisions are not only in the hands of the writer, but the editors as well.

[salahuddin]

To the mods: He threw down the gauntlet in that first line.

Oh trust me descendent of a Zikeraay Slave, resultant from Telai's one night stand, per your own words and defender of a nonexistent grandmother, we already smashed this argument of Toramanas long ago. Refer to the link. We already demonstrated conclusively AIRRAs statistics magic and hocus pocus, we demonstrated even more conclusively her rage at the American group that delved into subsequent studies destroying her own conclusions. You, the real Pakistani amongst us per your Peshawaraay bloodlines can sit here all you want calling people mental midgets. We more than showed all here what you were made of last night.

Za za pa kalaar shaa Telaieeyaa.

Barakzai, why are you so sensitive when it comes to ISI and Pakistan.

There will be no Muslim Brotherhood or United Ummah, never, that is a face you need to accept, Look at Libya, the only people to oppose it are non muslims nations such as China and Russia, your Ikhwanis can not take on the Might of Nato on camels with Swords, the era of the Saracen is gone.

Neither is the world going to accept your ISI proxies, Neither are angels going to come down with heaven on unicorns and help you create this deluded Muslim Brotherhood fantasy of one Islamic state.

Look at bahrain, Iran is soon to claim its Shia assets,while Sunnis will be left to fight them, by the time that war is over, there would not be a single trace of your Islamist policies left to practice.

Taliban can be exterminated by ISI if it wanted too, Its only a matter of time before the world will join hands with India, and then who will back Pakistan? China? hahaha no way, even the chinese consider Pakistan a threat to its own insurgencies.

Russia? no, russian considers Pakistan a nuclear threat

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Salahuddin this topic isn't concerned with Ummah or khilafah. Stick to the topic please.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

1) Do you know this for certain? If you do, kindly show us the proof of her personal details and also prove to us why it makes her credibility as a journalist suspect.

2) Well that is the point of journalism (information from x's point of view on something) and discussion to hold the claims of others and see if they are verifiable. If they are not, then their credibility is suspect. BTW that is a fallacy, just because an x organization's has not "hit the journals" doesn't mean they are contrary. All it stands to prove is that, they have not been fully put to the test (if we go by strict academic standards, but then again most articles today in the news media are not judged by the same critiques as academic journals).

3) By your account you are not a pashtun girl in a village in Wana, and neither is she (or I and to be honest 99% of the members) here...so it is arrogant for us to assume this. We are not the vanguards nor chosen representatives of our nation. None of us have the luxury (or curse) to speak on the behalf of others.

4) I personally don't mind asking her...if she chooses to disclose it. However I don't know her personally, so for now I will judge her by her articles. Also these decisions are not only in the hands of the writer, but the editors as well.

She has yet to produce the AIRRA data, methodologies, etc or to get them accepted into any journal of significance because they would crucify her techniques.

As I stated, she registered herself under the journalistic associations of Denmark with her Christainized surname and does not afford the same dignity to her work on Pashtunkhwa. Why BLS? Because whatever brand of counterlogic you may entertain, you will have to work hard to find me a girl in Wana or Bajaur married with her parents permission or her own to a man named Mr. Andersen. Her agenda is painted across all her articles. Ask the 40 dead members of that recent jirga in Waziristan how well they liked that last drone strike. Yet somehow Toramana and Miss Farhat Taj ANDERSEN make the dual ridiculous claim that A) the tribals like the drones and B) they do not kill civilians. That in the least should be distasteful to you as a Pashtun. For you to be even handed you ought to ask her why it was so easy for her to dismiss all reality and say: we cannot assume those labeled as civilians were actually that. Yet she takes issue with those that say: we cannot assume those labeled as terrorist were just that. I love how the secularists on here propound innocent till proven guilt as a virtue of secular law... yet to fit their agenda do not afford it to the bare foot tribesmen of the hills. For shame.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai, why are you so sensitive when it comes to ISI and Pakistan.

There will be no Muslim Brotherhood or United Ummah, never, that is a face you need to accept, Look at Libya, the only people to oppose it are non muslims nations such as China and Russia, your Ikhwanis can not take on the Might of Nato on camels with Swords, the era of the Saracen is gone.

Neither is the world going to accept your ISI proxies, Neither are angels going to come down with heaven on unicorns and help you create this deluded Muslim Brotherhood fantasy of one Islamic state.

Look at bahrain, Iran is soon to claim its Shia assets,while Sunnis will be left to fight them, by the time that war is over, there would not be a single trace of your Islamist policies left to practice.

Taliban can be exterminated by ISI if it wanted too, Its only a matter of time before the world will join hands with India, and then who will back Pakistan? China? hahaha no way, even the chinese consider Pakistan a threat to its own insurgencies.

Russia? no, russian considers Pakistan a nuclear threat

I hate the ISI and Pakistan. However, I refuse to concede that airial firepower on innocent villagers fighting as they always have against occupation of their brethren's land is somehow conducive to Pashtun causes. A single Waziri tribesmen's one hair is more important to me than all the families of the Panjab and Hyderbad and Tajikistan. Yet you sell out our people on both side of the line with your white wash occupation inducing, bowing to money mindset. I refuse to accept that brave Waziri and Bajauri tribesmen, unconquerable by even Ahmad Shah, are somehow held hostage by some low lives from Islamabad. These young men are brave and fighting occupation all over their lands. They prefer to die standing versus the way you prefer which is on your knees.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

She has yet to produce the AIRRA data, methodologies, etc or to get them accepted into any journal of significance because they would crucify her techniques.

As I stated, she registered herself under the journalistic associations of Denmark with her Christainized surname and does not afford the same dignity to her work on Pashtunkhwa. Why BLS? Because whatever brand of counterlogic you may entertain, you will have to work hard to find me a girl in Wana or Bajaur married with her parents permission or her own to a man named Mr. Andersen. Her agenda is painted across all her articles. Ask the 40 dead members of that recent jirga in Waziristan how well they liked that last drone strike. Yet somehow Toramana and Miss Farhat Taj ANDERSEN make the dual ridiculous claim that A) the tribals like the drones and B) they do not kill civilians. That in the least should be distasteful to you as a Pashtun. For you to be even handed you ought to ask her why it was so easy for her to dismiss all reality and say: we cannot assume those labeled as civilians were actually that. Yet she takes issue with those that say: we cannot assume those labeled as terrorist were just that. I love how the secularists on here propound innocent till proven guilt as a virtue of secular law... yet to fit their agenda do not afford it to the bare foot tribesmen of the hills. For shame.

Like I said that isn't proof..just speculation.
I have to entertain logic, what else shall I do..accept the premise that a person's personal life should dictate their skills (or lack of)?
I have my own issues with drones, but they are not as big of a problem as FCR. The primary concern should be reversing FCR and giving Pashtunkhwa (north and south) autonomy (at least within the federation of Pakistan)..but I digress. Now either show proof of the things I asked, or let us put her article to the test. Let us judge it by its merits. When the day comes that AIRRA is put to that academic tests, then of course that should be the topic at hand.

Please this is not a secularists vs religious debate....let us stick to the article. You are right, there is a fundamental issue regarding the number of casualties, but that can only be overcome if the army removes the media blackout in the region. It is very hard to verify any claims unless on a connections and he said she said basis. Until we don't remove rules like FCR and get rid of the Army's media blackout, we will be relying on many instances of substandard info.

BA you have to stop 'orientalizing' (if one can borrow from the late Edward Said) your own people. Bare foot, little girl of wana, tribesmen this or tribesman that. These are human beings, no need to add such ridiculous descriptions. Let us be honest, neither the secularists, nor the others can afford them this luxury, either Pashtuns opt for a autonomous free state to ask that FCR be revoked so they are treated like humans. That is a political and social issue that people ignore..because drones kaffir islamist sell more than FCR.

[Toramana]

She has yet to produce the AIRRA data, methodologies, etc or to get them accepted into any journal of significance because they would crucify her techniques.

As I stated, she registered herself under the journalistic associations of Denmark with her Christainized surname and does not afford the same dignity to her work on Pashtunkhwa. Why BLS? Because whatever brand of counterlogic you may entertain, you will have to work hard to find me a girl in Wana or Bajaur married with her parents permission or her own to a man named Mr. Andersen. Her agenda is painted across all her articles. Ask the 40 dead members of that recent jirga in Waziristan how well they liked that last drone strike. Yet somehow Toramana and Miss Farhat Taj ANDERSEN make the dual ridiculous claim that A) the tribals like the drones and B) they do not kill civilians. That in the least should be distasteful to you as a Pashtun. For you to be even handed you ought to ask her why it was so easy for her to dismiss all reality and say: we cannot assume those labeled as civilians were actually that. Yet she takes issue with those that say: we cannot assume those labeled as terrorist were just that. I love how the secularists on here propound innocent till proven guilt as a virtue of secular law... yet to fit their agenda do not afford it to the bare foot tribesmen of the hills. For shame.

Barakzai, the latest drone attack that resulted in the killing of 40 people was due to Pakistan's ISI providing false intelligence to Americans. Read Farhat Taj's article in the cotext (when she says ISI+CIA deal) and you would understand the background to this killing. Actually, Raymond Davis was collecting intelligence on Punjab-based Al-Qaueda operatives like Jaish-i-Mohammad and Lashkar-i-Toiba and that was not acceptable to GHQ and ISI (Punjabi Taleban are real asset not just canon fodders).

It is a fact that the drone attack have taken out many of the top Al-Qaueda leaders. I can see you are upset by the fact that the drone attacks have proven to be destructive for Al-Qaueda.

Rest Farhat Taj is our Pakthana khor...She has got a huge extended family there and every body knows her...So your propaganda cannot change that fact...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Salahuddin this topic isn't concerned with Ummah or khilafah. Stick to the topic please.

That is exactly right. What these people fail to understand is that this has never been about Khilafaah for me or about some superstate. Yes, I will defend the Quran against onslaughts to the last breath. However, I will never criticize a people fighting openly and unabashdly against occupation whether they be Irishmen against the British, Hizbollah against Israel, Palestine against Israel, Afghanistan against her occupier, the Pashtuns of the bar region against the Pakistani Army aggressor and so on and so forth.

My gripe with these peole is that they are taking a struggle of a people against occupation by an outside infidel superpower and turning it into some propaganda piece for their nationalistic Lenin derived mantra.

[Toramana]

It is a fact that drones are not an effective way of eliminating Taleban or Al-Qaueda permanently. But it is also a fact that many top Al-Qaueda leaders have been killed by drones. By the way more Tribal elders have been killed by Taleban and Al-Qaueda than they have been by drones. One should be honest to condemn both if one really cares about Wazirs and Mehsuds.

Moreover, Waziristan and other FATA agencies have more pressing issues i.e., the draconian FRC, which is the issue at the core of all this...In 2008, the political government prepared a draft to put an end to FATA but that was thwarted by Pakistan Army telling it not to touch this "foreign policy related issue"...

[Toramana]

That is exactly right. What these people fail to understand is that this has never been about Khilafaah for me or about some superstate. Yes, I will defend the Quran against onslaughts to the last breath. However, I will never criticize a people fighting openly and unabashdly against occupation whether they be Irishmen against the British, Hizbollah against Israel, Palestine against Israel, Afghanistan against her occupier, the Pashtuns of the bar region against the Pakistani Army aggressor and so on and so forth.

My gripe with these peole is that they are taking a struggle of a people against occupation by an outside infidel superpower and turning it into some propaganda piece for their nationalistic Lenin derived mantra.

Barakzai, the crocodile tears...I can understand it is not the plight of the tribal people that hurts the jehadi-minded groups but rather the elimination of the Al-Qaueda leaders in drone attacks. By the way more Wazirs and Mehsuds have been killed by Al-Qaueda and Taleban as well as Pakistan's military operation than by drones.


It is a typical tactic by the Jehadi-mided groups and individuals to highlight the killing of people in drone attacks whereas glass over the slaughter of Wazirs and Mehsuds in Taleban, Al-Qaueda, and Pakistan's military operation to ease drone pressure on Al-Qaueda in FATA.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai, the latest drone attack that resulted in the killing of 40 people was due to Pakistan's ISI providing false intelligence to Americans. Read Farhat Taj's article in the cotext (when she says ISI+CIA deal) and you would understand the background to this killing. Actually, Raymond Davis was collecting intelligence on Punjab-based Al-Qaueda operatives like Jaish-i-Mohammad and Lashkar-i-Toiba and that was not acceptable to GHQ and ISI (Punjabi Taleban are real asset not just canon fodders).

It is a fact that the drone attack have taken out many of the top Al-Qaueda leaders. I can see you are upset by the fact that the drone attacks have proven to be destructive for Al-Qaueda.

Rest Farhat Taj is our Pakthana khor...She has got a huge extended family there and every body knows her...So your propaganda cannot change that fact...

Yeah, so because she says it... somehow she knows that the ISI did this... we must believe she has some source. Give me a break Toramana Farhat Taj ANDERSEN is a joker who writes charades.

As I said, she may have an extended family, please define where Mr. Andersen's lineage lies?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai, the crocodile tears...I can understand it is not the plight of the tribal people that hurts the jehadi-minded groups but rather the elimination of the Al-Qaueda leaders in drone attacks. By the way more Wazirs and Mehsuds have been killed by Al-Qaueda and Taleban as well as Pakistan's military operation than by drones.


It is a typical tactic by the Jehadi-mided groups and individuals to highlight the killing of people in drone attacks whereas glass over the slaughter of Wazirs and Mehsuds in Taleban, Al-Qaueda, and Pakistan's military operation to ease drone pressure on Al-Qaueda in FATA.

BS the Afghans gave you the proper answer for your propagandistic drivel. When told the same line of reasoning they tribal elders of Qandahar answered: Ah Yes, but they only kill where you are!

And as stated before, Matthew Hoh defined this phenomena and destroys your propaganda. You are like a police man blaming the rape victim instead of the rapist Toramana:

http://www.thenation.com/article/157...-insider-talks

"We add more troops, which strengthens the Taliban and weakens support for the government. Suicide attacks, IEDs, military and civilian dead or wounded—all rise commensuratelywith eachincrease in foreign troop or Afghan government presence."

See Toramana even an Angreez understands what an insurgency of freedom fighting means.

You may choose slavery. Others, the true Pashtuns, will not.