To Pakhun in Afghanistan?

[IamDZJ]

A representative Pashtun who speaks the truth. Facts, no day-dreaming.

he asked who would want to be a part of that country. do i not exist?? there are millions of afghans who have lost their lives while fighting for the last 30 plus year (which is almost half the length of time since pakistan was formed) for that country and he just waved us all off as nothing. someone should question that ass about that. who wants to be a part of that country??? what kind of a pointless question is that?? if no one wanted to be a part of that country, he wouldn't be there discussing the matter he was pretending to discuss.
and then he apologizes for being "emotional". how about an apology for being a dimwit.

[fzpz]

What truth?

Do you think Pakistan is capable of dividing families across the Durrand?

Put it this way, It's impossible to impose a border on Pashtuns. Try your luck. It's the same family members, same tribes, etc. Good luck differentiating between a Pashtun of Kandahar when compared to a Pashtun from Quetta. Good luck asking a Pashtun of Quetta to get a "visa" or a "passport" to meet his aunt in Kandahar. Good luck with that.

The truth revolving around the history and realities of the international border popularly referred to as the Durand Line on pf. Pakistan is simply not interested in dividing families (or 'imposing' - this is all in your head), though the linkages are often overstated as evidenced by your post. As with any border region between any two countries there are bound to be close links between the communities and certain tribes straddling the modern international borders. These links will be magnified in case of the Af-Pak border since the two groups have religious and linguistic links between them. Remember, Pakistani is a nationality, not an ethnic group.

This was a security conference discussing the need to regulate the border so the so-called Taliban don't go back and forth. Ironically this has been a harping call from afghanistanis themselves who like to blame their pitiful conditions on Pakistan. If what you say is true, then it is your own 'brothers' and 'families' which are crossing into afghanistan, causing havoc, and retreating back into the safety of their own country, Pakistan.

Try refuting any of his points instead of coming up with false boogies about Pakistan 'taking' the Pakhtuns of afghanistan and making them sing the qaumi tarana. Less emotionalism please.

Idiot, he said Pakhtun.

[fzpz]

he asked who would want to be a part of that country. do i not exist?? there are millions of afghans who have lost their lives while fighting for the last 30 plus year (which is almost half the length of time since pakistan was formed) for that country and he just waved us all off as nothing. someone should question that ass about that. who wants to be a part of that country??? what kind of a pointless question is that?? if no one wanted to be a part of that country, he wouldn't be there discussing the matter he was pretending to discuss.
and then he apologizes for being "emotional". how about an apology for being a dimwit.

Sorry if it hurts you but those are the facts. Afghanistanis flee to Pakistan, not the other way around. And most if not all DO NOT want to go back to afghanistan. Refugees are a burden on any country, especially another third world country. He never said you didn't exist. The fighting in Afghanistan, and no elsewhere, is a sad spectacle for all. I doubt if the fighting in Af-Pak is going to stop anytime soon. Sadly, just like any discussion on af-Pak, the discussions degenerate very quickly into nonsensical bashing based upon myths. YOU need to stop getting emotional.

[Admin Khan]

The truth revolving around the history and realities of the international border popularly referred to as the Durand Line on pf.

If you ever bothered visiting the actual area, you would have known that the overwhelming majority of this self-proclaimed 'international border' is not marked at all. Go, pay a visit. Take a look at how Pashtuns of Lar and Bar travel without any difficulty. And let me remind you, your very own Musharraf attempted to "fence" the border and the Pashtuns of Pakistan fiercely opposed his idea.

Pakistan is simply not interested in dividing families (or 'imposing' - this is all in your head), though the linkages are often overstated as evidenced by your post.

Before you go off in a tangent, take a look at what he said and view it in the context of the Pashtun nation. If your not a Pashtun, I can understand the sillyness behind this post of yours. The minute you enforce a "fenced" border or any kind of border, the Pashtuns will feel insulted. There is a reason Pakistan has not tried it's luck yet.

This was a security conference discussing the need to regulate the border so the so-called Taliban don't go back and forth. Ironically this has been a harping call from afghanistanis themselves who like to blame their pitiful conditions on Pakistan.

Afghans*, not Afghanistanis.

Well, would you agree that most Afghans have a point when they blame some of their miseries on Pakistan. Afterall, wasn't it Pakistan who sort of "hyped" them up to fight against the soviets. Wasn't it Pakistan looking for it's strategic depth and "interest" in Afghanistan that caused most of the problems Afghans witnessed. It is absolutely wrong to say Pakistanis are root cause of all the problems. However, to offer a blind eye and act like Afghans are sending you love letters is also absurd. Afghans are upset at their Muslim counterparts because when it comes to "strategic interests" the Muslim card suddently vanishes and disappears. I wonder how Religious the ISI officials felt when they were making young energetic Afghans serve Pakistani and American interests. It was our brothers across a few miles away who took us as guests for the time-being. And rest assured, If things go sour for them, we will be there for them. In fact, I can easily refute your nonsense by showing you an editorial that proves some Pashtuns of Pakistan have moved temporarily to war-torn Afghanistan.

If what you say is true, then it is your own 'brothers' and 'families' which are crossing into afghanistan, causing havoc, and retreating back into the safety of their own country, Pakistan.

You see, this is your problem. You just don't get it. Afghanistan is home to any Pashtun of Pakistan. And with the aforemention said, Pashtunkhwa is also the home to any Afghan. It's not like Pashtuns are taking over Punjab. Relax, they are in their hometown. They are with their people.

Try refuting any of his points instead of coming up with false boogies about Pakistan 'taking' the Pakhtuns of afghanistan and making them sing the qaumi tarana. Less emotionalism please.

Please don't be dishonest. We are trying to have a civilized discussion here. If you can't carry a conversation without lying, kindly let me know. Read my post, no where did I say Pakistan wants us to sing the Qaumi anthem. Relax, kick back, and smile. No need to make up fairy tales.

So what part of Pashtunkhwa do you hail from buddy? Are you a Pashtun?

[randolph85]

its pretty simple, catch fighters crossing the border instead of coming up with the ridiculous and unrealistic idea of fencing and mining the border in order to suck up billions from america. much like they are prolonging the conflict by not going after the afghan taliban in pakistan so they can keep receiving billions for their otherwise economicly and socially broken country.

his point that afghanistan up to kabul would fall towards pakistan? lol what? i dont know what it is with these delusional pakis who think for some reason that pashtuns in afghanistan have a soft spot for the paki state. its the complete opposite.

[Admin Khan]

its pretty simple, catch fighters crossing the border instead of coming up with the ridiculous and unrealistic idea of fencing and mining the border in order to suck up billions from america. much like prolonging the conflict by not going after the afghan taliban in pakistan so they can keep receiving billions for their otherwise economicly and socially broken country.

his instance that afghanistan up to kabul would fall towards pakistan? lol what? i dont know what it is with these delusional pakis who think for some reason that pashtuns in afghanistan have a soft spot for the paki state. its the complete opposite.

BBC News - Pakistani agents 'funding and training Afghan Taliban'

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Pakistan-Intelligence-Agency-Helping-The-Taliban-London-School-Of-Economics-Report-Claims/Article/201006215648422?f=rss

Afghans should not complain. Why are they complaining? All we are doing is funding them and training them. The Taliban is good for you, but it's just not good for us.

[randolph85]

dont u just wish pakistan was to the east of india instead of to the west of it. or didnt exist at all.

one can dream.

[IamDZJ]

Sorry if it hurts you but those are the facts. Afghanistanis flee to Pakistan, not the other way around. And most if not all DO NOT want to go back to afghanistan. Refugees are a burden on any country, especially another third world country. He never said you didn't exist. The fighting in Afghanistan, and no elsewhere, is a sad spectacle for all. I doubt if the fighting in Af-Pak is going to stop anytime soon. Sadly, just like any discussion on af-Pak, the discussions degenerate very quickly into nonsensical bashing based upon myths. YOU need to stop getting emotional.

o yeah "we have begged with afghans that we are your brothers..." that is not what begging sounds like. your inability to control your imaginary border is your problem. how is an afghan refugee a burden on pakistan?? do we live off of you guys by begging you or do we pay you the rent to your filthy houses that you willingly rented us and pay for our bills??
your representative is the one whining in a conference room by being emotional and then apologizing for it too and that too simply because he can't make a point with out using his emotions like a sick manipulative third wife about it.

[afghan]

the person has been a paki dog for whole his life, what else could be expected from him. listen to a true pashtun what he thinks of the paki establishment. YouTube - 4 - Ali Khan Masood د پښتنو د يووالی ورځ ــ

[fzpz]

If you ever bothered visiting the actual area, you would have known that the overwhelming majority of this self-proclaimed 'international border' is not marked at all. Go, pay a visit. Take a look at how Pashtuns of Lar and Bar travel without any difficulty. And let me remind you, your very own Musharraf attempted to "fence" the border and the Pashtuns of Pakistan fiercely opposed his idea.

They travel without any difficulty because the state of Pakistan has never given a hoot. For your information, the borders of Pakistan are hardly marked, be it Pak-Iran, af-Pak, Pak-China, hell even with India. Please don't bring your biases into this. The border is an internationally recognized border whether you like it or not. If 'no border' were true than Karzai would be the president, the ana would be in KPK, Pakistan, dari would be an official language. Afghanistan and afghans* throwing hissy fits at every turn isn't going to make it (porous border) go away.

Before you go off in a tangent, take a look at what he said and view it in the context of the Pashtun nation. If your not a Pashtun, I can understand the sillyness behind this post of yours. The minute you enforce a "fenced" border or any kind of border, the Pashtuns will feel insulted. There is a reason Pakistan has not tried it's luck yet.

Pakistan hasn't tried its luck because it's practically impossible to fence an area that long and of that terrain. It also recognizes the complexities of fencing a border with a country with which it has so many links. Don't flatter yourself about pashtuns being insulted. There's a lot more for them to feel insulted about and yet they haven't been able to do anything about it.

Afghans*, not Afghanistanis.

Well, would you agree that most Afghans have a point when they blame some of their miseries on Pakistan. Afterall, wasn't it Pakistan who sort of "hyped" them up to fight against the soviets. Wasn't it Pakistan looking for it's strategic depth and "interest" in Afghanistan that caused most of the problems Afghans witnessed. It is absolutely wrong to say Pakistanis are root cause of all the problems. However, to offer a blind eye and act like Afghans are sending you love letters is also absurd. Afghans are upset at their Muslim counterparts because when it comes to "strategic interests" the Muslim card suddently vanishes and disappears. I wonder how Religious the ISI officials felt when they were making young energetic Afghans serve Pakistani and American interests. It was our brothers across a few miles away who took us as guests for the time-being. And rest assured, If things go sour for them, we will be there for them. In fact, I can easily refute your nonsense by showing you an editorial that proves some Pashtuns of Pakistan have moved temporarily to war-torn Afghanistan.

To think that there isn't something to the assertions of afghans would be false, i agree. Pakistan would also have a point in blaming Afghanistan for its actions, past and current. It tried (and contineus to try) its failed 'pashtunistan' policy, it threw the first punch by not recognizing Pakistan, sponsored NAP terrorism (in addition to others) in Pakistan, and lets itself be used for anti-Pak purposes. Everyones' miseries are based on their own misdoings. Holds true for Pakistan too. The young energetic afghan asked for help in ousting an invader. Are you saying the failed soviet occupation was because Pakistan fooled afghans into fighting for their homeland? If the afghans didn't beg the cia/isi/saudi/pak/charlie wilson's help in kicking out the soviets than we wouldn't be having the conversation today. History tells of afghans inviting foreigners in their internal affairs and then crying about it. The deep fissures in afghan politics and society between the communists/nationalists/islamists/ethnicities/secularists are not the fault of anyone but afghans themselves. I say let history be history, and move on based upon the current realities.

I agree, Pakistanis being your brother welcomed the refugees with open arms. Those open arms are still there to this day. The only 'refutation' would be of a temporary shift of people due to the operations in KPK. No refugee camps of Pakistanis in Afghanistan.

You see, this is your problem. You just don't get it. Afghanistan is home to any Pashtun of Pakistan. And with the aforemention said, Pashtunkhwa is also the home to any Afghan. It's not like Pashtuns are taking over Punjab. Relax, they are in their hometown. They are with their people.

I'm not really worried about people from Afghanistan being in any part of Pakistan. You're insinuating that i should be. Them being muslims, they are welcome in Pakistan. They're already a hell of a lot of them in my hometown of Karachi. They're also in Punjab and Sindh.

Please don't be dishonest. We are trying to have a civilized discussion here. If you can't carry a conversation without lying, kindly let me know. Read my post, no where did I say Pakistan wants us to sing the Qaumi anthem. Relax, kick back, and smile. No need to make up fairy tales.

That was for other posters dreading Pashtuns singing the qaumi tarana.

So what part of Pashtunkhwa do you hail from buddy? Are you a Pashtun?

No i'm not, i'm a pathan. My grandmother is from there. j/k

Seriously though, just taking interest in my fellow muslim brothers. A nice small community you have here.

It seems you're getting extremely emotional over this. I'll leave it be.

[randolph85]

these non pashtun pakis are coming from that paki defense forum. have u ever been there before? its hilarious.

[Khidr]

Nice wet dream, I hope somebody woke the Paki up. Maybe right up to Wardak (not including Maydan Shahr) but not an inch further towards Kabul Jaan will ever be under the control of a Pakistan or Loy-Afghanistan/Pashtunistan.

However, the Paki is correct in regards to his claim that the eastern border of Afghanistan is as legitimate or de-legitimate (depending on which way you look at it) as the western border and northern border of Afghanistan. For the modern state of Afghanistan was born out of the establishment of an eastern border with British India, a northern Border with Tzarist Russia and a western border with Persia.



But then again, he is still having a wet dream in regards to Pashtuns joining Pakistan as opposed to having their own Pashtunistan when/if Afghanistan breaks up.

[Khidr]

Just like British India doesn't exist anymore and the Durand Line is void, nor does the Qajar Persia or Tzarist Russia.

[randolph85]

Nice wet dream, I hope somebody woke the Paki up. Maybe right up to Wardak (not including Maydan Shahr) but not an inch further towards Kabul Jaan will ever be under the control of a Pakistan or Loy-Afghanistan/Pashtunistan.

However, the Paki is correct in regards to his claim that the eastern border of Afghanistan is as legitimate or de-legitimate (depending on which way you look at it) as the western border and northern border of Afghanistan. For the modern state of Afghanistan was born out of the establishment of an eastern border with British India, a northern Border with Tzarist Russia and a western border with Persia.



But then again, he is still having a wet dream in regards to Pashtuns joining Pakistan as opposed to having their own Pashtunistan when/if Afghanistan breaks up.

while its common knowledge, no inch of afghanistan will ever belong to the pakis, i dont understand why u think kabul doesn't belong to the pashtuns as it belongs to other groups? pashtuns have lived in and around kabul for at least 600 years, and while we are a minority in the city, we are a majority in the province. no group has absolute claim of the region.

[Khidr]

while its common knowledge, no inch of afghanistan will ever belong to the pakis, i dont understand why u think kabul doesn't belong to the pashtuns as it belongs to other groups? pashtuns have lived in and around kabul for at least 600 years, and while we are a minority in the city, we are a majority in the province. no group has absolute claim of the region.

Kabul is a sovereign capital of Afghanistan. It belongs equally to all who are citizens of Afghanistan.

As for the majority/minority argument is concerned that's another issue which Tajiks and Pashtuns will never agree on.

Kabul Province is an artificial administrative/political creation. It's northern districts like Kalakan, Istalef, etc are as Tajik as Shamali. It's southern districts like Char Asyab and Soroobi are today as Pashtun as Paktia. I'm talking about the ancient Kabul (Kabul City).

My issue is with Kabul (City) and people having wet dreams about Kabul (City) being within the domain of a Pakistan or Loy-Afghanistan/Pashtunistan.