Discussion on adding new states to the U.S.A

[imb706]

well I don't know about them, I never a seen a Hispanic person.

You must be living a cave then... As for Admin Khan, well, we just passed this resolution allowing Puerto Rico to decide if they want to be a state, continue as a territory or be independent. The majority want statehood nowadays so they'll probably become the next star on the flag.

[Admin Khan]

You must be living a cave then... As for Admin Khan, well, we just passed this resolution allowing Puerto Rico to decide if they want to be a state, continue as a territory or be independent. The majority want statehood nowadays so they'll probably become the next star on the flag.

Well, I am not really sure if I am happy with that. We Americans should be a lot more careful on the inception of new states. But considering how much they are dependent on us, I guess it does make sense. But have in mind, If they are officially our 51st state that means, Mass migration to urban cities, lack of jobs and so forth.

[imb706]

Well, being that they're already US citizens, and already mass migration from there to the mainland happens, I can't see things getting worse with them being a state. It'd only get better. I would certainly like to see more progressive voters and see those puerto rican parties become part of the US, much like the Vermont Progressive Party is slowly getting bigger. Since the loss of certain jobs in the US is do to outsourcing to places like China, Pakistan and such, I can't see how Puerto Rico being a state would make it worse as well.

[Admin Khan]

Well, being that they're already US citizens, and already mass migration from there to the mainland happens, I can't see things getting worse with them being a state. It'd only get better. I would certainly like to see more progressive voters and see those puerto rican parties become part of the US, much like the Vermont Progressive Party is slowly getting bigger.

Ya but, Id say the inception of Puerto Rico should be the least of our concerns, at least for now. Puerto rico will not make things better at all. It might make them happy, but let's be realistic what benefits does it have on an Average American besides an increased probability of losing his/her job to a lower waged worker?

[imb706]

Well, the only place it would really make better at the moment is Puerto Rico. You see, accepting peacefully more places into the United States is an absolutely good thing, it will improve conditions and relations and give more opportunities to people in the less developed world. If it becomes a state, I hope it sets a precedent and more areas want to join.

lose jobs

Uh, what jobs are being lost from state to state? The loss of jobs in the US is due to outsourcing, mostly engineered by Ronald Reagans administration (though it has its origins in earlier administrations) to other countries like China, Pakistan, Thailand and such. These are poor and oppressed countries that big businesses like outsourcing to so they don't have to worry about pesky unions and worker protection laws. Ohio and Michigan were destroyed by outsourcing due to NAFTA, not because other states leeched off them. Instead of expanding our work force through unfair practices in crappy, oppressed countries, why not spread economic well being? Also, being that they'd be a state, they'd be american workers working for America. I mean, that's not hard to figure out :P One last thing, I assume you're an immigrant or a descendant of recent immigrants, so this comes off as a bit ironic.

[Admin Khan]

Well, the only place it would really make better at the moment is Puerto Rico.

Which I indeed agree with and cleary said, They would go through of a phase of unprecedented growth if they join the US.

You see, accepting peacefully more places into the United States is an absolutely good thing, it will improve conditions and relations and give more opportunities to people in the less developed world.

You see, I can agree with you, but to what extent is it good? Its good for them, but what is our benefits? I mean, If I use your argument we should add countries left and right but how exactly does that necessarily help out? Id appreciate it if you can elaborate on your present stance, cause there might be a point I am missing.

If it becomes a state, I hope it sets a precedent and more areas want to join.

According to statistics, We are the worlds largest economy, And the most popular designated area by immigrants, I am sure everyone wants to join, Do you agree?

Uh, what jobs are being lost from state to state?

At the moment, We are losing jobs to illegal immigrants. Not necessarily state to state.

The loss of jobs in the US is due to outsourcing, mostly engineered by Ronald Reagans administration (though it has its origins in earlier administrations) to other countries like China, Pakistan, Thailand and such.

Not really Pakistan, more like India and Philipinnes.

These are poor and oppressed countries that big businesses like outsourcing to so they don't have to worry about pesky unions and worker protection laws.

I could not agree more, pretty much its all because of cheap labour.

Ohio and Michigan were destroyed by outsourcing due to NAFTA, not because other states leeched off them. Instead of expanding our work force through unfair practices in crappy, oppressed countries, why not spread economic well being? Also, being that they'd be a state, they'd be american workers working for America.

That is right, but do we have jobs to offer them? Think carefully on this one Jamie.

I mean, that's not hard to figure out :P One last thing, I assume you're an immigrant or a descendant of recent immigrants, so this comes off as a bit ironic.

Immigrant?Um no.

Nonetheless, if it adds any "weight" to my standpoint, I am not an immigrant. I was born and raised in the U.S.A. I am not sure if that makes any difference though, as we are discussing something that I doubt has any correlation with me.


Oh and Id highly appreciate it if you can quote me completely and not just words out of context. I am not really a fan of that at all. I am sure you and I both know what that turns into.

[imb706]

Oh hey, it was made into a thread. Neat.

Which I indeed agree with and clear said, They would go through of a phase of unprecedented growth if the join the US.

Well, mostly.

Its good for them, but what is our benefits?

Being that they would be Americans (they already are, but I'll just say it as that for sake of argument), it would benefit us automatically.

? I mean, If I use your argument we should add countries left and right but how exactly does that necessarily help out? Id appreciate it if you can elaborate on your present stance,

Since Puerto Rico is not a country, but a long time territory of the United States, I can't actually defend that position especially since I didn't expouse it. When I said other areas, I meant the vast territories we still have. Of course, the best reason to make them states is to force the areas to higher their humans right standards and quality of life, but who ever said US policy was driven by that XD.

Not really Pakistan, more like India and Philipinnes.

Yes, Pakistan. In fact, Mexico has been slowly trying to get itself out the death grip of NAFTA, we've been moving our **** to China and Pakistan. American import laws have changed since 9/11 to increase economic connections to Pakistan.

I was born and raised in the U.S.A. I am not sure if that makes any difference though, as we are discussing something that I doubt has any correlation with me.

I said descended from recent immigrants. It reminds me of all those descendants of Irish people who bitch about mexican immigrants, durr. Also, they forget the Statue of Liberty apparently.

Oh and Id highly appreciate it if you can quote me completely and not just words out of context. I am not really a fan of that at all. I am sure you and I both know what that turns into.

I seem to run into this a few times here on this site. Here's what I'm doing, I'm not "quoting" you to support or deride a position, I'm breaking up your post piece by piece and responding to each piece. If I don't include every single word in each quote, it's not me quoting you "out of context" I'm just responding to the general sentences. Hope I cleared that up.

At the moment, We are losing jobs to illegal immigrants. Not necessarily state to state.

Bull****. We're losing jobs to outsourcing and to big corporations being given a free pass to sell out America. Those mexican immigrants aren't taking your job, padre. If you do lose your job to an immigrant, you're probably lazy anyway, it's what I say. Ross Perot crusaded against NAFTA and outsourcing in the 1992 presidential elections, and he actually won around 19 percent of the vote for that stance. He predicted a massive loss in employment, and wow, he was right. It's not Mexicans, it's the big corporations taking your jobs. I find it incredibly hilarious also that some recent immigrants or descendants of immigrants, as in first or second generation, would support such a position. You guys are still fresh off the boat to most Americans, hell even to me sort of, so stop trying to blend in in that manner.

According to statistics, We are the worlds largest economy, And the most popular designated area by immigrants, I am sure everyone wants to join, Do you agree?

Um, no, not really. In fact many want to distance themselves economically from the US. Being the worlds largest economy is neither good or bad. That's not the point I'm making anyway.

[Admin Khan]

Oh hey, it was made into a thread. Neat. Well, mostly. Being that they would be Americans (they already are, but I'll just say it as that for sake of argument), it would benefit us automatically.
Since Puerto Rico is not a country, but a long time territory of the United States, I can't actually defend that position especially since I didn't expouse it. When I said other areas, I meant the vast territories we still have. Of course, the best reason to make them states is to force the areas to higher their humans right standards and quality of life, but who ever said US policy was driven by that XD. Yes, Pakistan. In fact, Mexico has been slowly trying to get itself out the death grip of NAFTA, we've been moving our **** to China and Pakistan. American import laws have changed since 9/11 to increase economic connections to Pakistan. I said descended from recent immigrants. It reminds me of all those descendants of Irish people who bitch about mexican immigrants, durr. Also, they forget the Statue of Liberty apparently. I seem to run into this a few times here on this site. Here's what I'm doing, I'm not "quoting" you to support or deride a position, I'm breaking up your post piece by piece and responding to each piece. If I don't include every single word in each quote, it's not me quoting you "out of context" I'm just responding to the general sentences. Hope I cleared that up. Bull****. We're losing jobs to outsourcing and to big corporations being given a free pass to sell out America. Those mexican immigrants aren't taking your job, padre. If you do lose your job to an immigrant, you're probably lazy anyway, it's what I say. Ross Perot crusaded against NAFTA and outsourcing in the 1992 presidential elections, and he actually won around 19 percent of the vote for that stance. He predicted a massive loss in employment, and wow, he was right. It's not Mexicans, it's the big corporations taking your jobs. I find it incredibly hilarious also that some recent immigrants or descendants of immigrants, as in first or second generation, would support such a position. You guys are still fresh off the boat to most Americans, hell even to me sort of, so stop trying to blend in in that manner.
Um, no, not really. In fact many want to distance themselves economically from the US. Being the worlds largest economy is neither good or bad. That's not the point I'm making anyway.

I am sorry, but Id rather not discuss this any further with you. Nice talking to you.

I found it hilarious that you are assuming I am "Lazy" without actually knowing, who I am employed for, or what I do for a living. And to make matters even worse, You are completely unaware of how long we have been in this country, In fact like I stated before, I am born and raised in the U.S.A. Yet unfortunately, you go as far as referring to the entire Afghan/Pashtun diaspora which have initially arrived in the U.S.A in the 1900's as prominent businessman and educated students as "fresh of the boat".

I find that very insulting. Happy browsing bro

[imb706]

I found it hilarious that you are assuming I am "Lazy" without actually knowing, who I am employed for, or what I do for a living.

I didn't call you lazy, I called the vast majority of americans who bitch about immigrants lazy. But that's just being nice, and it's a bit incorrect. Most are paranoid racist who can't stand the brown people from down south coming to the US, oh the horror of it all. Of course I haven't a clue about your employment, I wasn't commenting on it. My views may be a bit colored from this old article: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

You are completely unaware of how long we have been in this country, In fact like I stated before I am born here. Yet unfortunately, you go as far as referring to the entire Afghan/Pashtun diaspora which have initially arrived in the U.S.A in the 1900's as prominent businessman and educated students as "fresh of the boat".

Well, hispanics are more more prominent businessmen and have far more roots here in the US, hell they controlled the western US once, so I mean come on, that's silly. I'm not trying to pit two ethnicities against each other, I'm the last person on Earth to do that, but I mean, it really does make my head spin when I see people descended from immigrants attacking immigrants, or in this case a new state that would bring economic opportunity, and at the very least curb some illegal immigration. The right wing machine really does a good job pitting groups against each other and their own interest.

I find that very insulting. Happy browsing bro

Well, you certainly take offense easily.

[Admin Khan]

I didn't call you lazy,

If you do lose your job to an immigrant, you're probably lazy anyway

But its okay, No love lost.

I called the vast majority of americans who bitch about immigrants lazy. But that's just being nice, and it's a bit incorrect. Most are paranoid racist who can't stand the brown people from down south coming to the US, oh the horror of it all. Of course I haven't a clue about your employment, I wasn't commenting on it. My views may be a bit colored from this old article: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

The discussion was not about racism, I simply asked you how adding new states benefit us? I wanted your views on it. I am not sure how you managed to turn the conversation into a downsouth thing.

Well, hispanics are more more prominent businessmen and have far more roots here in the US,

I never said they dont, what I did say is its very disappointing to see you throw indirect comments at an ethnic group you merely have a clue of. I have utmost respect for all ethnic groups of the U.S.A, I never said I dislike hispanics. I have nothing against anyone, so a bit easy there please.

hell they controlled the western US once,

That is awesome for them.

so I mean come on, that's silly. I'm not trying to pit two ethnicities against each other, I'm the last person on Earth to do that, but I mean, it really does make my head spin when I see people descended from immigrants attacking immigrants,

Well, re-read how you worded your previous post. You clearly attempted to throw a jab, I mean like I said, If you are going to continue throwing such shots, Id rather not discuss this. My question was, How would it benefit the U.S.A at such times? simple as that. I am not saying you are wrong, I was curious in your views not to hear you call us "lazy" and "fob".

Well, you certainly take offense easily.

Not at all, but I dislike it when people throw veiled insults in a discussion, lets learn from each other as compared to throwing shots. The parts that I highlighted previously, were really unnecessary to say.

[imb706]

If you do lose your job to an immigrant, you're probably lazy anyway

Well, did you lose your job to an immigrant? If you did, well, no offense, but he or she probably did a better job than you. I mean, if a mexican made me lose employment, it'd probably be because I was doing a ****ty job, not because somehow they magically came to the USA and stole a job of mine.

The discussion was not about racism, I simply asked you how adding new states benefit us? I wanted your views on it. I am not sure how you managed to turn the conversation into a downsouth thing.

By you claiming illegal immigrants are taking our jobs (I pointed out that making Puerto Rico a state wouldn't create illegal immigration or job loss anyway, so I was responding to that) which of course, doesn't mean Europeans or those arabs and afghans. No, it means hispanics. If you did mean Europeans, well....then, good luck with that stance.

what I did say is its very disappointing to see you throw indirect comments at an ethnic group you merely have a clue of.

I didn't make "indirect" comments about an entire ethnicity, I just said what peoples opinions would be, partially my own. But I did some looking into this, and I found this: "Afghan Americans have a long history of immigrating to the United States, as they may have arrived as early as the 1920s.[2] Due to the political borders at that time period, some of these immigrants may have been Pashtuns from British India (present-day Pakistan) or Afghanistan.[2] During the 1930s and 1940s, well-educated Afghans entered America.[2] Between 1953 and early 1970, 230 migrated into the US.[2] Some of those who entered the United States were students who won scholarships to study in American universities. After the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, many people from Afghanistan decided to leave their country to immigrate or seek refuge in other countries. These Afghan refugees settled in Pakistan, Iran, the European Union, North America, Australia, and else where in the world." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_American So not a whole lot came until the country became a refugee producer, which would make many say things like "fresh off the boat" and other such stuff. I mean, again, why do immigrants fight each other, not that they usually do, but I witness it sometimes. It's bizarre. The population is only 65,972 I guess some try too hard to fit in here in the US.

How would it benefit the U.S.A at such times

Well, actually you already listed your objections, being that they'd take peoples jobs away, yet I can't see how. All it would do at the moment is open direct economic access to the area (for the average citizen I'm talking about, average citizens have a much harder time doing business and such in territories), and raise the quality of life in the area as well. (Didn't Teddy Roosevelt say that the welfare of each of us is dependent on all of our welfare?) Not only that, it would eventually improve our standing with Latin America, I guess unless we began blowing the **** out of the state, of which I doubt that will happen. You've actually failed to list any good reasons why it would be bad for the economy.

[Admin Khan]

Jamie,
I've never lost my job to a mexican.

I don't think you understand my point. I'll leave it at that.


Pleasure speaking with you.


Jasmine, leave it alone. It's over with. I made myself crystal clear.

[pukhtana]

imb706
do you have to use the word '****' in every paragraph you type?


and stop twisiting peoples words. I find it disturbing.

[imb706]

North America

Um, North America isn't just the US. It's a continent ya know.

I mean there are close to 20,000 in Flushing,Queens alone lmao.

I'll go by what the US census says XD. Seriously, where are you people getting these numbers? Out of your, oh nevermind.

Every Afghan I know is born in the USA.

Yeah but every hispanic (but this trash digging lady) was born in the US, there's far more of them here and they contribute far more. They aren't stealing jobs.

we Pashtuns went to space,

Um...you mean you sponsered an astronaut once or twice? Er...not the biggest accomplishment.

build nuclear weapons

Thanks for further contributing to global instability. I kid :p, but anyone can build a nuke nowadays. I mean, Bad idea forums are flooded with people looking to get stuff like that.

have served as a UN ambassador for the USA.

Yeah, but for Bush XD.

LOL at posting wikipedia. There is an estimated 300_000 Afghans in Cali alone. 65000? Argh. I give up. Wikipedia is a lazy mans first source.

Lol, the source wikipedia used was the US census. (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...at=&-_lang=en_ What, is some afghan businessman or diaspora leader saying otherwise? Who cares? Where do you get this 300,000 number from? I assume this is ethnic nationalism, making numbers that don't make sense to boost the image. Ethnic nationalism is just as insane as plain ol' nationalism.

[imb706]

Canada is a teet of the Commonwealth, except when it comes to defense XD