Tweet
-
-
LOOOOOOOOOOOL, Funny but yeah, Mazloom and Toramana will never acknowledge hypocrisies.Comment
-
Just see the post above where I said Muslim should bring this open-ness as soon as possible and also mentioned the word "reform". I also know why non-Muslims are not allowed to participate in rituals of worship (but would like to study the theological sources about that).Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View PostToramana's logic is always weak; there's absolutely NO reason for a Kaffir to practice or participate in Islamic practices; because to participate in Islamic Practices you must have Niyyah which means intention; without establishing a belief in Islam the practices are useless and serve no purpose.
Toramana is basically arguing that Islam lower it's high standards of conduct just for the sake of Other's acceptance; but he doesn't realize than that wouldn't actually be Islam.
The practices of Islam has requirements, one of those is that one is a believing Muslim.
would Toramana then argue that Infidels be punished by Islamic Law too for drinking and adultery?
If he believes Islam should open it's arms; then it would be only logical for them to participate in ALL aspects of Islam, including penal code
come on Toramana, let's test the depths of your pretentious facade of openness.
At least one sect of Islam i.e., Barelvi/Sofi order has allowed limited participation by non-Muslim in certain religion-related rituals. I have also seen non-Muslism members parliament here going to mosques and participate in prayers with Muslims (also join Namaz-i-Janaza) as a show of solidarity with them. I myself have visited Temples, Synagogues, Churches, etc. and know that there is no ban on followers of other religions to participate in their acts of worship.
I have also gossiped with Hindus (Brahmans) who told me that they now have a reformist interpretation of their religion decreeing that anybody can become Brahman (religious leader) that wants to irrespective of status.
Rest, I admit that certain brands of Islam e.g. the Arab/Wahabi brand is too rigid to change until something comes and smashes it down.Last edited by Toramana; 01-02-2011, 01:53 AM.Comment
-
That sign is funny - !
You guys do a great job of illustrating posts.
What is exactly Toramana's Agenda and how does it differ from Munafiq's - if at all?
Scimitar and others have been arguing with them more closely. So probably have a better grasp of those distorted psyches than I may...
Who's paying 'em ? Let's figure out the most likely places.
Scimitar made a great suggestion that they are operatives out of Delhi.
Any other possible places or agencies?
Scimitar that's terrible your vacation is over. We'll miss you!
[Even if you don't care for the T........ your arguments are still stellar !]
Comment
-
Your smell-sense is ultra-sensitive...Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View PostWhy should Hindu reformers deal with it? You're a SECULAR HUMANIST remember? Which means your arguments should apply to EVERYONE and ALL religions....RIGHT???
I smell Agenda
I am concerned with Islam because I am a part of a Muslim society and think that certain social, political, and economic issues that we are facing today are due to the rigid interpretation of Islam.
It is not wrestling gentleman.Last edited by Toramana; 01-02-2011, 01:54 AM.Comment
-
They seem to have a hard on for Europe and "advanced modern western nations."
Their secular ideology and talk of equality between things which in no way are equal (Muslims and non Muslim/right and wrong) reeks of Godless Euro liberalism.There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
Sayyid QutbComment
-
As for Synagogues/Temples and Churches allowing people of other religions to participate; it's not because they actually allow people of other religions to participate. It's because they're not actually following their religion; but a deviated version.I know this is absolutely true in the case of Judaism, because if you study Judaic History in regards to the Temple of Solomon it was strictly forbidden for idolators to even enter the foot steps of the temple.
the circumstances you described are not analogous to Makkah Mukarramah. Because for one All Janaza prayers are is raising your hand in du'a; unless you mean they actually stood in prayer line and did ruku. If that's the case I'm sure it was merely tolerated because of the individuals ignorance, not because it's actually allowed. Since you mentioned it was politicians then clearly that alludes to it being more of a publicity stunt than "participating".
You can't really compare Sufi rituals because Sufi rituals are not canonical practices; or example some Sufis like Chishtis sing songs and such and they generally have no problem with others singing along, but these songs are just entertainment not actual religious practice.
There are other Sufis like Qadiri and Naqshbandi who do not have other religions to participate in their practices. Many of them are Arab, especially in Iraq and are not Wahhabi. The Qadiri Sufi School originated from Baghdad, Iraq. So your associations and distinctions are inaccurateLast edited by ScimitarXEdge; 01-02-2011, 02:14 AM.Comment
-
Appeared here.Originally posted by Alchemist View Post
http://dailysalty.blogspot.com/2007/...hing-ouch.htmlComment
-
Originally posted by Toramana View Post
No you live in Canada, and you espouse Secular Humanism as your value system.
You can argue that it's Islam's practices that are the cause of problems we're facing today, but speaking for myself, I believe it's because the economic and political systems that exist or are adversely affecting Muslims are corrupt to begin with. Many of these Islamic practices even more spiritually oriented Sufis agree upon, so it's not a "Wahhabi vs. Non-Wahhabi" thing.Comment
-
Probably, tor_khan didn't see it or simply ignored it...Anyhow, best demonstration of Islamist demeanour...In fact, what I was doing was a little banter with Cateya...Originally posted by Manzareh View Post
MazloomMasood was complaining of ill-treatment at the hands of dreamer in another thread...and look at this...
In other threads, Mr Edge has called me brown Paki etc. but he quickly edits what he writes ...At least I and MazloomMasood haven't got personal with any one here...Last edited by Toramana; 01-02-2011, 01:32 PM.Comment
-
Hahahahaha...Cateya, Mr Edge forgot to mention Mossad and a couple of other agencies e.g. MI6, etc. ...Originally posted by Catya Sher View PostComment
-
Toramana
Mazareh is a Munafiq himself, he is a divider of the Muslim Ummah. He made 10 or so threads insulting the Tajik Muslims and even called Uzbeks who are also Muslims.
You see Toramana, they think this radical way due to the ghettos they live in. around 70 percent of Muslim Communities do not even work and live below the poverty line in the UK. Most live on state welfare system, you can witness this by visiting Muslim communities, most are taxi drivers who do not even pay tax, the others are just plain criminal weed dealers or convicts, others are the Jamiets, who sit in rooms all day inciting segregation and hatred towards non Muslims.
Most educated and well off Muslims tend to prefer to be living in Non Muslim communties such as the English Communities instead of their own Muslim ones.
That says a lot of things. If you go to any Muslim Community you will witness backwardness due to faith very openly, you can find a Pir on every corner selling Tarwezz, you can find Radicalist Salafis abusing the civilised liberities and freedom of speech to incite hatred and bring hated amongst peaceful communities due to their own repressed and insecure mindsets.
Kind Regards
Plus most here would naturally object to see a sign like the one in Saudi Arabia in Europe, America and Cananda because they have not experienced their own views in practice hahaha.
Under their state there will be signs such as
1.Going to Kabul=Non Shias not allowed
2.Going to Kandahar= Non Wahabis not allowed
3.Going to Jalalabad=Non Sufis not allowed
4.Going to Pakhtunkhwa= Non Muslims not allowed
Talk about Division eh! I wish our whole region is cleaned of this Mystic Fairy tale Wizards Jihadis, and thier supersititous rumours. Most here would never trade a life in the west to be living in the era and time of Arab Bedions lol!
Most here are so defensive of how the Omars and the Alis lived and dealt during that period that their minds are soo oppressed and never open so they resort to the usual banter. What makes me laugh, is that we secularists will always have the last laugh because they will keep pouring to the Secular world for justice and a better living.Comment
-
Very true, Maseed. I agree with you. Look at Manzarey, he says he is living in UK because there is no true Muslim country in the world ignoring the fact that Saudi Arabia is far better than UK in terms of more mosques, presence of holy places, an entirely Muslim society, ....but the material comforts and other rights (freedom of expression and belief, etc.) are keeping him bound to UK ...so what ultimately matters for most humans?Originally posted by MazloomYarMasud View PostLast edited by Toramana; 01-02-2011, 01:59 PM.Comment
-
Laugh all you want, but you have levied similar suspicions about meOriginally posted by Toramana View Post don't pretend that you haven't.
Usually people who cry "conspiracy theory"; forget that they have a bunch of their own.
Nah , Mossad requires an intelligence quotient above 70 to operate amongst them, You're just an outsourced agent sort of like phone companies outsource their Customer Service call centers to Mumbai. Paying White European stock would require heavy salary; and you know in this economy that's not economically wise. So a nice Cadre based on Delhi or Mumbai would do just the job.Comment
-
Originally posted by MazloomYarMasud View Post
Mazloomyar I notice in your responses; you have this tactic: when people have rebutted you, you merely carry on and repeat what you already said, absolutely disregarding or pretending that others have not rebutted you. And hence you carry on repeating the same weak logic and false premises you did in the previous postings.
Let me emphasize you're not only comparing apples and oranges; You're inventing Straw-Man caricatures of things which are simply not what is actually being alloted.
Having a sign that says "Non Muslims here" and "Muslims here" is related to people who are involved in their practices and those who are not.
When I was doing my Undergraduate Degree and walked through the Sports Center Gymnasiums have "Woman's Changing Room here, No Males Allowed" ; are you going to cry "Gender Apartheid". No one does because they understand there's no business for men in such a place. This is thing in Makkah, the places are allotted for Muslims, for Muslim practices and Muslim experiences. It's not bigotry because all one has to do is say Shahada and believe in it and you have access. So it's far less prejudiced, in fact not prejudiced at all.
In India even if I said "I want to be a Hindu" I can never ever be a Hindu no Matter how many times I scream to the top of my lungs Ram Om Om Santhi Ram Om; because being Hindu is a GENETIC relationship according to them. Same with Judaism, I can never be an actual Jew, the most I could be is a Samarithan (Gentile who practices Judaism) and I wouldn't be allowed in the Temple Mount because I'm not genetically Hebrew. So this claim of prejudice is totally Grasping for Straws; if you want to oppose prejudice, you should be picketing Hindu Temples and Jerusalem.
And let's not call upon Toramana's silly red herring of "Reform Hinduism" and "Reform Judaism"; the reason it's called "Reform" is because it's not the ACTUAL religion, but some watered down imitation. It's like saying "Reformed" Capitalism where now have no privatized free market economy; that simply wouldn't be Capitalism. It's all just marketing scheme, and if religion is aimed at how marketable it can be rather than the teachings of the religion, then there's no point in the religion anyways.
As for your characterization of Muslim immigrants in the West, particularly the UK. I think for someone who espouses Secular Attitudes your understanding of the Sociological Dynamics of Immigration/Migration and their historical influences would be more nuanced. But no, clearly you have this shallow, obscured picture of the whole ordeal. Of course you're looking at the whole matter from a perspective of Hegemony and not from an Ecological/Environmental understanding. Immigrations are always due to drastic alterations and/or disruptions amidst the ecological relationships to an Environment. Most of this was caused by imposing various institutions which impede and interfere, remnants and extensions of colonial and imperial enterprise. This isn't something that just happened to Muslims, but to peoples of South/Central America, Africa, and the rest of Asia. We can only speak about it from a Muslim perspective; because Muslims are primarily the ones who have the courage to speak about it, while the rest like Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Secularists bow their head like spineless derelicts. Hence why Muslims will often shun them as well because those people have turned by and large into subservient cronies.
It's merely this Manufactured Hallucination that people migrate to Europe or North America because it provides more rights and comforts. It's because of the displaced relationships and conditions that enforce this dependence on Europe/North America and hence the migrations.
As for Pirs who try to pass out Taweez (not Tarweez) or Wahhabis who merely banter irrational jargon on the streets with absurd and childish picket signs, we can agree. This however is an internal issue and has very little to nothing to do with any major problem in the world today, not just regarding Muslims but humanity at large. We can all agree these sectarian divisions are an internal problem which has lasting impact on Muslims, but let's not conflate that with Muslims in relation to Kaffireen. Apples and Oranges.
Most people wouldn't as you say "trade" their lives here for the White European conocted caricature of "Arab Bedouin" life because they get habituated and in turn pacified which eventually leads to being lulled into a false sense of complacency. You can't uproot global scale disparities on your own, so eventually you just accept it mistakenly for being reality. However; the reality is the sedentary way of life we are deluded into perceiving as "comfort"; is an artificial condition for us. It is largely in conflict to our evolutionary make up. That alone indicates that it is very valid that we should uproot it. The primitive cultures or rather the cultures we arrogantly deem primitive are actually more conducive for us in terms of their Naturality than our completely manufactured self deluded comfort is for us; it's just the pacification that keeps us in the rut.
My educational goals are not so I can measure up to the standard of achievement peddled by society; but so I can learn the intricacies of how it operates and undo all the damage, perhaps an unrealistic goal but I see no other reason for an education than that. I could be perfectly content living a more natural life, albiet it would take some readjusting.
Comment
Comment