Aseer Jaan, let's implement your secular democracy in Afghanistan.

[Wrayun]

So Aseer Jaan, is it possible to implement a secular democracy in Afghanistan presently? And can you do it without the support of international forces to guard you and protect you?

[Wrayun]

Aseer Jaan,

Is it possible? It will take time and after having the majority of our country brainwashed with extremism i.e no to TVS, no to female education, Christians are all our enemies it might be a challenging but during the British superpower days it was also a fantasy to imagine the USA as becoming the worlds most dominant and powerful country now isnt it? No we can't do it without the support for foreign forces. Just like how you can't install Islamic fundamentalism without the support of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

Sure, it will take time, and how long will that be under an occupation? You admit that it can't happen without foreign forces, why is that? Who is fighting those foreign forces, the locals or the Pakis and Arabs? Oh yes, the locals, according to you who are brainwashed, while you who being raised in America aren't. Do me a favor, go tell that to the average Kandahari that they are brainwashed, they'd say the same about you.

And yes, Islamic "fundamentalism" can't survive without the support of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, the same fundamentalism that defended the Afghan state from Soviet occupation which was by the way supported and financed by guess who? Right.

But you see, Islamic "fundamentalism" was already in place, and most of the population are indoctrinated into it. It's easier for you sitting all the way behind the safety of your American adobe to wish the unbrainwashing of your Kandahari public by foreign forces, because it's not your family that's being harassed, blown to bits, or water boarded. It's not your mother, sister, or house that is searched. Not your cultural sensitivities that are being crippled. It's the average brainwashed Kandahari.....isn't it? And here you are accusing me of being indifferent to Kandaharis? How silly.

Wrayun why don't you want my Kandaharis to live the same way you are living?

I do, I would love for them to live this way, but not through occupation, not through war. Agha Pukhto matal da che waye, khapal ba de maar kam, kho bal la ba de preg nadam. I'll kill you myself but won't let another touch you.

I take into full account their cultural, historical and religious beliefs. You on the other hand call it years of brainwashing. I don't take that kind of liberty in my approach, that would be very selfish of me. I'm not the one fighting in Kandahar against the foreigners you want there to implement the secular democracy you wish to see, THE KANDAHARIS THEMSELVES ARE FIGHTING AGAINST IT. But of course, according to you, they are brainwashed, and don't know any better.

Are you happy that we Kandaharis have nurtured and been brainwashed into creating this group that has it's top commanders subservient to Islamabad? You yourself reap the benefits of the USA or wherever you are from but you don't want them to have it?

And where are these commanders from, who are subservient to Islamabad, Rawal Pindi?

Mullah Omar is Kandahari, Haqqani and Heqmatyar are both Afghan. You don't understand, or refuse to understand, that the occupation makes your Kandaharis more and more subservient to Islamabad. Haven't you been paying attention? It's not like your foreign armies will fight Pakistanis for you. The financing for Sep.11 came from Pakistan, so did the logistics and training, the hijackers were mostly Saudi. Yet Afghanistan was attacked? Hmmmm... oh yeah, it was about liberating the poor hopeless Afghani women...they have now elected warlords to do the liberating. Fantastic.

You aren't that naive to think that the war in Afghanistan has anything to do with liberating your Kandaharis and the Afghani women...do you? As long as the Taliban were in power, and were willing to sign deals, they were receiving aid packages and tours of the White House.

Islamic sects do not get along. Muslims are more tolerant in the USA than they are in Afghanistan. That is because they know they have to mind their own business.

What Islamic sects are there in Afghanistan, esply amongst Pukhtoons? There are like 2, Sunnis, and Shia's. Historically both have gotten along. The situation only has gotten worse when foreigners have gotten involved in the internal affairs of the state.

[Wrayun]

Your right man, I'm wrong. I admit it. What was I thinking? How silly and stupid of me. Thank you, you have proven to me how in the dark I was.

Though I never supported Punjaabis, Islamabad, Talibs or their policies. I don't remember ever doing that. But that's okay, it's not important to prove such allegations or accusations. I'm sure you are an honest, rational and considerate individual who wouldn't grossly misrepresent someone's views without any substance or evidence.

Enjoy your secular democracy, things are looking up down there.

[Michin Khel]

O ya i want secular afghanistan. I would like to see to see afghan students in skirts and jeans in kabul university and instituations through out afghanistan. It would be splendid to see kandahari girls of colleges in modern outfit, they are fair-skinned ,they would just look like europeans.
And aseer jan, stop this kandaharism.

[Wrayun]

It's about time you woke up from your insane nightmare.

I will enjoy and I hope my people enjoy it the same exact way you are currently enjoying it. The same exact way that you got educated in a kaffir university, the same exact way you got fed and raised in a kaffir secular country, I want my people to get raised in such tolerant, secular societies. Lets not be hypocrites for once.

Kid, I like you, so I'm sparing you.

You don't know jack crap about me, where I got educated, raised, born, and how I lived my life. It is best you keep those presumptions to yourself. I have serviced Afghans/Pukhtoons from all sides while you were probably in your diapers. I'm against the war, if that doesn't settle nice with you, too bad. I want everything that I enjoy for every single Pukhtoon, but not at the cost of war, human suffering and humiliation of our people at the hands of foreigners, while you sip hot coffee. I'm against all foreigners, Arabs, Pakis, Amreekis, Russi, Parsi and lil Martians. What you don't realize is that I'm not your problem, your frustration is with your own thinking which is being torn apart.

Stop whining, stop complaining, stop blaming others for your problems, stop expecting others to make things better for you or your people. No one on this planet is that holly enough to spend billions of dollars just so Aseer Jaan and his people can have a secular democracy. If that was the case then Congo, Niger, and the rest of those suffering African states deserves it more than anyone.

Go pick up a news paper, read some of the news online if you like. Things are not pretty. Your family members in Kandahar, the ones that wants to make a difference, are not hiding from Pakis or Arabs, they are hiding from your own fellow Kandaharis. The insurgency is expected to grow, with Pukhtoons now marginalized in the government, Karzai being alienated, the Parsiwan block making closet deals and plan B's, the American public wary of the War, and a dead Richard Holbrooke...forget about a secular democracy you be lucky if you got a strong man dictatorship.

I don't need to wake up from my nightmare, you need to realize that you are living in one. And learn to deal with it.

What is the solution? Hell beats me.

[Michin Khel]

Wrayun how dare you insult aseer lala, he is a kandahari, superior breed of pashtuns.
I support his secularism because i want to see afghan beauty in skirts and jeans.

[Baygham]

Kid, I like you, so I'm sparing you.

You don't know jack crap about me, where I got educated, raised, born, and how I lived my life. It is best you keep those presumptions to yourself. I have serviced Afghans/Pukhtoons from all sides while you were probably in your diapers. I'm against the war, if that doesn't settle nice with you, too bad. I want everything that I enjoy for every single Pukhtoon, but not at the cost of war, human suffering and humiliation of our people at the hands of foreigners, while you sip hot coffee. I'm against all foreigners, Arabs, Pakis, Amreekis, Russi, Parsi and lil Martians. What you don't realize is that I'm not your problem, your frustration is with your own thinking which is being torn apart.

Stop whining, stop complaining, stop blaming others for your problems, stop expecting others to make things better for you or your people. No one on this planet is that holly enough to spend billions of dollars just so Aseer Jaan and his people can have a secular democracy. If that was the case then Congo, Niger, and the rest of those suffering African states deserves it more than anyone.

Go pick up a news paper, read some of the news online if you like. Things are not pretty. Your family members in Kandahar, the ones that wants to make a difference, are not hiding from Pakis or Arabs, they are hiding from your own fellow Kandaharis. The insurgency is expected to grow, with Pukhtoons now marginalized in the government, Karzai being alienated, the Parsiwan block making closet deals and plan B's, the American public wary of the War, and a dead Richard Holbrooke...forget about a secular democracy you be lucky if you got a strong man dictatorship.

I don't need to wake up from my nightmare, you need to realize that you are living in one. And learn to deal with it.

What is the solution? Hell beats me.

Why spare him, go for it.

A kid ripping apart your doctrine, just too much fun to watch.

Go for it Kiddo, you have my blessing, if you are the new generation, than I have nothing to be afraid off.

[Wrayun]

Why spare him, go for it.

A kid ripping apart your doctrine, just too much fun to watch.

Go for it Kiddo, you have my blessing, if you are the new generation, than I have nothing to be afraid off.

Why? Because there is nothing he can say or present that you and the rest of your click hasn't or couldn't. In fact as secular atheists your position is much stronger than his as a Muslim secularist. Besides his whole argument is based on emotional rhetoric sugar coated with personal presumptions. I'm afraid he is making the same mistake as many others do i.e. if you defend Islam or Muslims you must support Taliban, Al-Qeada, global jihaad, Islamic Khalifaat/Umaat. I know there is nothing I have stated that warrants his accusations, this is why he hasn't presented a single proof or iota of evidence to back up his claims.

So, Mr. "Forced to be a Pukhtoon by the international community", a good try, but a try nonetheless.

[Wrayun]

Aseer Jaan,

Same here, you should be lucky I have my finals. If not, things would have been worse.

Do your worse kid, I'm right here. I changed my mind. I'm bored, let's kill some time.

You are wrong, before you begin an emotional diarrhea.

I'll try not to make my "emotional diarrhea" as repulsive as your baseless carminative ****$torm of accusations. It would be nice to back your claims with some substance instead of flashing your sentimental erection like a Pelham Bay park pervert in the hopes of catching something. But then again some people have a tendency to fart out abstract allegations just to get an arousal out their of own flatulence. Hey, whatever turns you on.

- "emotional diarrhea" that's plagiarizing btw.

I do know a few things about you. I know that you currently live in a secular kaffir country, where you are sitting in a comfy heated room and typing me this.

Yes, that is true. I do live in a secular country and the room is indeed quite comfy. I know that you too live in a nice heated house, and a comfy environment. Yet you impose secular democracy on a people that might not necessarily want it, especially by using foreign forces (not to mention non-Muslim) who easily curtail the Afghan people religious and cultural sensitivities. Unless you expect me to believe that those who have been fighting, are part of the insurgency, come from the Philippines. Now before you even say Paki this Arabi that, I would like for you to explain Afghans like Maiwand, Akbarkhan, Sangar, Unknown etc. here on this platform, most of the outspoken members against the war, who are your fellow Afghans. Compared to members from Pukhtoonkhwa (most of the very secular types) here.

It seems that there is a huge gap between your understanding and the ground reality of your home country, and fellow Afghans. The irony is that there is little difference between your thinking and those who you accuse i.e. the Taliban of imposing a foreign agenda using foreign power and resources on the Afghan people. You are in the same boat. Just like you, they too think what they are doing is right and justified. Just like you are okay with the countless collateral dead (mostly Afghan women and children) as a by product of the implementation of a secular democracy, they too justify their victims murders as a quick ticket to heaven while implementing their Islamic shariat. You realize the irony?

You then argue you are not pro-occupation, and you will reiterate that you are not "okay" with the dead victims of war, then how on earth are you going to implement this secular democracy of yours? The current government and constitution placed in Afghanistan, backed by NATO/ISAF, is anything but a secular one:

Constitution of Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just that shows how out of touch you are from reality.

I know that you yourself live in a tolerant kaffir society where you reap the benefits of secularism, yet you try to preach a form of government that you, yourself won't be able to live in.

Prove it, prove what I preached, give us evidence from what I supported or have supported. Instead of repeating like a parrot, bring forth your evidence. My arguments from the beginning have been against the "secular atheists" on this platform. Again and again I had made that clear. It was at a time when Muslims and Islam was under grave ridicule by a bunch of inconsiderate, intolerant, self-proclaimed "Pukhtoon Nationalists" messiahs. Your butthurt over the fact that the arguments I provided nullifies your own illogical support for a secular government in Afghanistan as a supposed secularist Muslim. Learn to deal with it. Anger and denial is the first step in mental recuperation.

Wrayun, it is clear to me by your responses that you have never visited the hub of Taliban - Kandahar. In Kandahar, having a Computer was banned because they assumed you and I might watch porn in it. You expect us to live in this sort of a primitive society? Kandahar was is the hub of Pashto literature, music, culture and our history. It has produced Nashenas, Abdur Rauf Kandahari, Ustad Benawa yet under the Taliban rule, everything went to an all time low.

Again, you need to prove that I supported Taliban, their form or style of government.

I don't have to go to Kandahar to understand Talibanic rule. My own village, including my own family members have been victims of the Taliban. Just recently we lost friends and family in a bombing that killed dozens. My uncles and cousins, who owned shops, had to close their businesses and move out from their areas after being threatened. One relative shop was burnt down with a fire bomb. Two other relatives were kidnapped on suspicion of helping government forces, released after 6 months in critical conditions when the Talibs decided they were innocent. We had multiple marriages in the past few years without any tamashay, music etc. There is much more, personal, but irrelevant to this discourse.

In a secular society, my people will be more tolerant, they will not be hostile to Hindus of Kandahar, etc. Everyday you wake up in your secular nation, you should wish the same for your people in Kohat and Kandahar, don't force them to visit the Mosque against their free will, just like how no one forces you to visit the Mosque in your secular nation. Let that be a private business.

You are again being blatantly ridiculous. Were the Talibs hostile to Hindus, Sikhs or Buddhists? If they were, what makes you think I support that, or that my defense of Islam against the secular atheists on this platform equates to support of such attitude? You are acting no different than those arrogant fools who label any Muslim who defend Islam or Muslims as supporters of fundies and extremists.

How old do you think I am? It' either you are a grandpa, or kindly don't assume. Funny how you contradict yourself, on one hand you tell me not to assume but here you are assuming that I was in my diapers. Don't play these lousy games with a Math major like me. I can see through contradictions with my eyes closed. I am currently working on Masters degree at NYU and the minute I am done, you can catch me in Kandahar University teaching local Pashtuns. I will teach in Kandahar, Swat, and other Pashtun cities nearby just so they can get high class education. There are 4 other Kandaharis here who attend school with me and we will be going together. The total number is actually 8 of us but lets suppose 4 change their minds, we have 4 confirmed. All 8 of us plan to visit Kandahar and serve our city that served our parents.

You are in your twenties aren't you? If yes, than I was supporting/servicing Afghans/Pukhtoons while you were in your diapers. I started out very early. I didn't wait for a major, or a degree, neither did I have to come to Amreeka to realize that our people need help. It just came naturally. The seeds that I planted, you reap it's benefit as you speak right now on this very platform. It's on me, enjoy it.

And good that you have such ambitions, more power to you. I pray they materialize.

Nothing comes for free or without war, that secular kaffir nation in which you wear jeans and sip coffee in, was built with the blood of Americans. Americans of all kinds, Afghans, Pakistanis and Arabs. These Americans created those liberties that you know enjoy. So please, think again and try harder. We need secularism because it clearly works. Nearly everyone here who opposses secularism lives in a secular country. Australia, England, USA, why are we such hypocrites?

You can wear jeans and sip coffee in a Muslim country. It is your narrow-minded understanding of what I believe that you deduce it to such diatribes. I agree with you that nothing comes free, but, fight your own wars, kindly. Don't ask outsiders, foreigners to do it for you. The fact that you do seek outside and foreign assistance in your endeavors is evidence enough you have little or no local support i.e. that you are doing something against the will and the spirit of your people. But, of course, they are brainwashed.

I hope this isn't psychologically damaging.

I am not whining nor am I complaining. I am stating my opinion and defending my opinion which is a secular Afghanistan where we can all serve Afghanistan regardless of our Religious status.

What major religions are there in Afghanistan?

Religion in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

99% Muslim? Oh wow, wow, you know we defiantly need secular democracy right there, because that 1%, oh my God, it's suffering. Oh yes indeed, it is suffering.

My family members in Kandahar and anyone Kandahari for that matter are fighting against NATO not because we want Taliban.

I never said that your family members were fighting NATO, that is a revelation you just made. Thank you. Contradiction anyone? lulz

How many times do I have to say that? We have a history of not allowing invaders. We have done it to Alexander the Great, Persians, Indians there is nothing special about us Kandaharis defending Afghanistan this time either.

Thank you again. I hope now it's clear for you where I come from. Contradiction anyone?

Ahmad Shah of Kandahar, Mirwas Hotak, Shah Mahmood Hotak all these Kandaharis did not defend Afghanistan because they wanted to be ruled by Religious fundamentalists, we did it to not be subdued by a foreign aggressor.

Actually many historians will say that Ahmad Shah, with his multiple "Jihaads" over the plains of Punjaab, and Mirwais Hotak, with his "Jihaad" against the Shia's, and Amirs like Abdr Rehman, with his "Jihaad" against the Kafirsitanis, were all religious fundamentalists.

Contradictions anyone?

We are doing the same now against NATO which is being an aggressor.

Contradictions anyone? lulz

If a country like China, or India wants to develop Afghanistan to be a secular nation and in return they want a few bases - I would say go for it!

Contradictions anyone? hahahaha

The USA has bases in South Korea, Germany, Poland and I see nothing wrong with nations I just named, which are just a few.

Many scholars and authors will argue that these countries are not sovereign anymore. In fact any country that has foreign armies stationed on their soil can't be considered sovereign. This is why there is no foreign army stationed in the US, or UK, or even China. Germany, Poland, and even Korea fell to Western alliances long time ago. But that's another story.

[Baygham]

Why? Because there is nothing he can say or present that you and the rest of your click hasn't or couldn't. In fact as secular atheists your position is much stronger than his as a Muslim secularist. Besides his whole argument is based on emotional rhetoric sugar coated with personal presumptions. I'm afraid he is making the same mistake as many others do i.e. if you defend Islam or Muslims you must support Taliban, Al-Qeada, global jihaad, Islamic Khalifaat/Umaat. I know there is nothing I have stated that warrants his accusations, this is why he hasn't presented a single proof or iota of evidence to back up his claims.

So, Mr. "Forced to be a Pukhtoon by the international community", a good try, but a try nonetheless.

And you have. LOL. Should he make up a hadith in favor of secular doctrine or a verse is needed for proof. Will my 'shaiiri' do or it has to be in arabic. I thought belief does not need a proof. Remember the first couple of verses of Quran. Even if he lined up all the philosphers, scientists, CEOs of fortune 500, took you to Davos for their annual meeting, you will put cotton wool in both ears and fall in sijda towards the new giant clock run by fairmont hotel chain in mecca.

One's supply chain must be heavily dependent on the "traffiking of belief" to make such steadfast assertions and remain blind to everything else. I know this because it applies to me too, but, I like my supply chain to be firmly linked to global currents (more earthly gain in that, akhirath sara ba akhirath ki gooroo), hence the hesitation, no other lofty ambitions or devine goal.

Whats wrong with a secular Muslim. He can believe in what ever, and live with whoever, just knows the boundaries of his beliefs, understands that sometime you believe in things because you have too, because your supply chain is linked to it, your family, love, status is linked to it. He understands this and lives a the life of a believer. Yet he stands above it and remains a pillar for the development of others in his community; others, that dont share that belief. He develops institutions to interact with global movers and shakers, shows them his way of life, shares it but does not blow himself up if others believe otherwise or remain not-interested. He moves on.

[Wrayun]

And you have. LOL.

I don't need to prove anything, since I am not the one making any allegations. Common sense.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to the subject matter, just like the rest of your usual rants and tirades.

[akbarkhan]

whats wrong with a secular muslim.

lol

[Wrayun]

Aseer Jaan,

Sorry for me being a bit late, I had a Math final(topology).

Take your time.

Just think a bit harder, or ask someone to help narrate what I type. I believe I am very clear with what I say, and that is that you are a hypocrite.

What you need is someone to translate the quoted part. As for my hypocrisy, you need to prove that with some serious references. As for your hypocrisy, I’m about to hand it to you.

Now would you agree that we should allow every Pashtun to have a comfy chair like yours, the same chair that you have in a secular country. We have obviously seen that your comfy chair is not available in a fundamentalist Islamic government. There is a reason why you ran to the west, there is an obvious reason behind it. Most of it has to do with that opportunity they have to offer you and those opportunity are reaped from the same secular government that you pay taxes too.

Let’s dissect some of these cartoonish assertions of this college/university going pupil:

There are no comfy chairs in Islamic countries, particularly the fundamentalist type? False. Talk about speculative ignorance. I ran away to the West? False. My migration to the West was a result of my father’s family being here initially. That is the obvious reason. I had no say in my “running away” to the West. And yes I do pay taxes, but if it was possible, no one would. It’s something you have to do…you have no choice. Let’s just ignore that part.

But, none of that matters, because Asser Jaan, you need to prove that I have supported Islamic fundamentalism, particularly the type imposed by the Taliban. Till then keep running your circles.

They might not want it, because people like you never allowed them to experience it.

Oh yes, I personally travel to Afghanistan every week, hold the entire nation hostage at gun point, and prevent them from experiencing what ever it is that you want them to experience. Present a better argument, use your education.

Everyone is brainwashed into believing that following his or her sect is the path to God and that other sects are no good. Teach them more about secularism, and lessen up the Madrasa and you will see they will all be online for secularism.

Whether they are brainwashed (or you are) the fact that they are willing to resist it to the point where they would employ the use of violence against it should be clear enough for you to respect their perspective and not try to shove your ideology i.e. sect hint* hint* down their throat principally using foreign forces. Doesn’t work that way and shouldn't. Live and let live.

Wrayun, I am against foreign aggression. Foreign aggression and foreign forces are 2 different concepts.

Now this is where I hand you your hypocrisy on a platter.

Foreign aggression is inevitable when you use foreign forces. They are called foreign FORCES, because they implement FORCE, that is AGGRESSION. You seem to be confused on how things are done and what implications they can have. You can’t expect foreign forces to hand you a secular democracy by giving away flowers. That is not what they are trained for. On one hand you want foreign forces there, on the other hand they can’t do their job without using aggression. So if they do, you are against it? Talk about double standards. Now that's hypocrisy, a very harmful one.

I don't have nothing to explain to Akbar Khan who is another Kandahari hypocrite, who also lives in London, wants Taliban yet he himself can't live a single day under their reign. Maiwand lives in Holland, yet he himself refuses to live in Wardag province. Unknownprince is born in the USA, never seen a street in Kandahar, yet he wants Taliban style government. I am against the war which has tortured people but at the same time I am happy since they have showed the world who are our enemy is.

Yes, all these Afghans are brainwashed, and you are not just because they don’t apply that twisted and irrational logic of yours i.e. against foreign aggression but okay with foreign forces i.e. my people hate foreign forces etc. my family fight foreign forces etc. we have a record of fighting outsiders and foreign forces etc. BUT I WANT FORIGN FORCES etc. lulz

Lulz

lulz? really? Second time you’re plagiarizing.

I have spent many years back home wrora, I am just a bit more open minded and I am not a hypocrite. I have seen people like you live in secular countries yet your type doesn't want them to have it. That is my biggest problem, you are not even allowing them to experience it. You assume that it's not good for them.

You have no argument, all we have seen you doing is cooking up baseless accusations. Prove your point with references. All I see from so far: you are doing this, you said that, you want this etc. etc. yet you have nothing to back it up with. Have some dignity, back your shyt up man.

I haven't forgotten your dramatic entrance to PF in which you challenged secularism. You are against secularism yet you live in a country that is founded on secular ideals. That is the hypocrisy wrayun, wake up and smell air.

Yes I haven’t forgotten how impressed you were, weren’t you cheer leading my arguments? What happened lost your pompom’s? I didn’t pay enough attention to you? You feel neglected?

Just to clear your confusion, once again:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-11/secular-atheists-their-logical-fallacy-pukhtoon-nationalism-5727/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-11/secular-atheists-their-logical-fallacy-pukhtoon-nationalism-5727/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-11/future-secular-pukhtoon-state-pornography-laws-5777/

Anyone can read those threads and can see for themselves where I was coming from. It is surprising that you as a secularist Muslims were shying away from the discourse. Instead you were patting me on the back with a grin. For that all one has to do is go back and read my profile wall.

You want fundamentalism and shuttle cock burqas for them, yet your self live in a country of nude beaches.

Prove it!!!!!!!!! Damn it kid prove! lolll

Your pathetic ad hominem attacks are all based on fallacies. Stop wasting our time and prove.

Do you even know what secularism is? Have you ever read the constitution? Wrayun, read the constitution of the USA and compare it the constitution of Afghanistan. Let me know what the differences are.

Don’t divert attention from your contradictions. We are discussing Afghanistan, and the subject of secularism with respect to Afghanistan. I gave you a link to the present constitution of Afghanistan under the protection and safeguarding of foreign forces, which is anything but secular. You need to address that, and give your reasons as to why that is. We are not talking about the constitution of the US.

You are more dumber that I had thought initially. How in the world do you expect war torn Afghanistan to gain economic revenue without the assistance of other nations? I understand you are a college drop out but a basic economic course does not hurt. A land-locked nation like Afghanistan is dependent on Pakistan, Iran or it's thousand mile away nations. We can fight our own wars like we have but we don't want to be kept backward by Islamic extremists.

When I said foreign assistance, I meant foreign armies. Not economic incentives. It’s not rocket science.

So what about Turkey? You see your logic is full of holes. It reminds of a chapter in a calculus. Just because Afghanistan is Muslim means it can not have secularism? While I give you coffee look up Turkey.

The history of Turkey and Afghanistan is much different. Turkey under the Ottomans was going through many social reforms particularly under the Tanzimat and Young Turks period. These were grassroots movements that weren’t imposed by state rulers or foreign occupiers. There were other political/religious entities involved within the framework of the statehood. The same political/religious entities were working on yet another secular state called Pakistan within India with the help of the British. In both instances these people were against the Khalifat organization which was an indigenous movement, with Pukhtoon and Afghan leaders like Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan.

Ironically, Turkey has voted into power Islamic “fundamentalists” as you will call them, who are now challenging the very secular kamalist foundations.

But of course, they are brainwashed...right?

[Wrayun]

Exit Afghanistan

YouTube - Exit Afghanistan


Note: The Afghans and the reporters in the above documentary are not employed by Wrayun, as Aseer Jaan would like you to believe.

[Wrayun]

@ 36:45 to 37:45, it is amazing that this non-Muslim, non-Afghan, can sum it all up in such a precise way.