Underage marriages of girls rise in Kandahar.

[Khostai]

You obviously have no clue again.

First of all, these so called 'underage marriages' are in reality sex trade and prostitution. Why? Because forcing a woman to marry against her wishes is forcing her to become a sex slave. Her parents receive money for selling her which is sex trade.

Let's assume the minimum wage was an issue here, it means the constitution, human rights organizations and the government are okay sex trade and prostitution.


If the law and human rights was really an issue, government would have actively pursued a policy of disbanding illegal marriages where nikkah is tied without the girls consent and where money is given to her family. If this policy was enacted, half of marriages in Afghanistan would be annulled.

The government and these so called human rights groups are not addressing the real problem. The true cause of this matter.

Making fuss about age is just as it was pointed out, merely a ploy to draw attention of Western audience.

There are many places in the west where under age girls have sex or even get married. Even in many western countries it is okay to get married at age of 13.

Age is not the real issue. It is merely symbolism and appealing to prejudices of non Muslims to depict a certain pictures.

You do know that the current goverment is corrupt to the core. If the goverment followed and implemented half of the laws we would not even have taliban right now.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

That is not what I said. He proposed to cleanse our culture, I merely stated that changing Afghan culture is not easy especialy in this unstable times. I also want to see change, but the question here is, how to bring this change so that the people will also accept it and will follow it trough. Because Afghanistan tried twice to modernise its culture and it failed really bad, resulting in a backlash that we still suffer.....

Trying to "modernize" from top down always causes backlash.

Secularists pleaded for change asking for billions in aid money to modernize education, promote promiscuity and immorality on mass media etc in order to "elevate" and "liberate".

But here is the fun part. The criticism of secularists against Taliban and ISIS is that they want to impose their morality from top down on people.

This is exactly what you want but instead of religious change, you want a secular change.

you are right though. The current regime is not like communists or the kemalist amanullah khan. The current regime doesn't really want change. They just want money and resources by claiming they are "changing" society.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

You do know that the current goverment is corrupt to the core. If the goverment followed and implemented half of the laws we would not even have taliban right now.

The current corrupt government is led by a secularist idiot. It's your tree, you are sitting in it.

[Khostai]

The current corrupt government is led by a secularist idiot. It's your tree, you are sitting in it.

Last time I checked Afghanistan is named Islamic Republic of Afghanistan or Da Afġānistān Islāmī Jumhoryat

Ghani is not a secularist and in no way he proposed to secualrise Afghan laws or culture. Majority parliment people are ex-jihadis and also the ruling power is in the hands of mudjhhids.

And now you blame a group of people who are totaly non excistent in Afghan politics and power.

[Khostai]

Trying to "modernize" from top down always causes backlash.

Mudjhahids pleaded for change asking for billions in aid money to modernize education, promote promiscuity and immorality on mass media etc in order to "elevate" and "liberate" Afghans from Taliban.

But here is the fun part. The criticism of Mudjhahids against Taliban and ISIS is that they want to impose their morality from top down on people.

This is exactly what Mudjhahids want want but instead of religious change, you want a cultural change.

you are right though. The current regime is not like communists or the kemalist amanullah khan. The current regime doesn't really want change. They just want money and resources by claiming they are "changing" society.

I improved your mistakes, your welcome.
And again there is no secular movement in Afghanistan that holds power or even have influence to change anything.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

See, you are only deceiving yourself.

[torkham]

Clearly there are many un-answered questions, many unsubstantiated legal conditions from Islamic law or any other law.

It's clear, on the basis of consensual and pragmatic truth, whether we have been attuned to 'laws' of Toronto, Den Hag, somewhere in Sind or Dand, many parents will not want their daughters to be given away at childish age to men of mature years or under blackmail or extortion or badal or walwar. My heart is rattled and my blood vessels tugged from my flesh whenever I hear of a girl in her early teens married off to man of maturity and experience, or forced, or coerced due to blackmail, ignorance or redeeming someone else's crime, In my view the intentions and desires of the groom loom with exploitation of the girls prematurity and innocence. There is ruthlessness and no mercy. Of course I have heard reasons put forward to DISTRACT ATTENTION from this practice, such as as consummation doesn't take place till the 'right' age or it is the tradition of the prophet, or its solution utilitarian. So avoiding distraction, who in our society oversees the right is maintained, HAQ is observed, innocence is not robbed, exploitation does not occur? Who has the power to see the intent, NIYA'?

So if we agree, in consensus, in morality of right and wrong that this is wrong, right?
Is there a counter example when it is ever righ to practice this? Really?

Ok then proceed to Shariah convoluted with traditions: who has the answer? Is your answer better than mine because you read more accepted books? Do you have undisputed authoritative answer of what is age of consent according to Shariah? Is it alright to continue our traditions because it isn't explicitly mentioned in the Quran. Are you taking the words of the schools at AlAzhar or at Madinah or at Karachi or at Deoband or Bahreil? Because, I assure you someone, ONE, will defend their school of thought, their Imam, their village maulawi and it will end up bloody fatal. My point here is there are mullahs/maulawi who are sanctioning these marriages with violations of Shariah conditions and Bukhari customs that we all have a read and understand, and still allowing marriages with out consent that is clearly mentioned. Then come the defenders of this action, "oh the girl knows the man, she has heard the proceedings been discussed in the family and she is consenting in her [coy] silence".

We have dimly educated maulawi sanctioning such marriages, who will quickly mention Umm Al Momineen Aisha (r) and her circumstances. We have the STERA MAQEMA failing to carry out its duty, duty of MAQEMA. We have Islamic government, so it claims, with Islamic scholars who are not overseeing their maulawis in their education of Islam. Then there is growing number of 'scholars of Islam' coming out with differing interpretations of Islam, like this TV sheikh Ibrahim from Jordan(?), you can recognise him by his goatee and pinstripe suits. There is clearly confusion amongst the ummah, and the uneducated, weak and poor are being mercilessly exploited.

I don't have an answer, I am not a Scholar of Islam with undisputed answers but I am shouting as loud as I can that THIS UNDER AGE MARRIAGE OF GIRLS TO OLDER MEN practice is an abuse of innocent girls and boys, there is exploitation that is being perpetuated, accepted and ignored. The POOR PARENTS, INNOCENT GIRLS, ARE BEING EXPLOITED AND BLACKMAILED. And you know it is oppression. I do say it to all I meet, in Kandahar. The stare, or agree, but I know some of them in their heads have another reason they think is so pressing that it defies mercy of Allah(j).

Bacha Bazi is not spared either.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Clearly there are many un-answered questions, many unsubstantiated legal conditions from Islamic law or any other law.

It's clear, on the basis of consensual and pragmatic truth, whether we have been attuned to 'laws' of Toronto, Den Hag, somewhere in Sind or Dand, many parents will not want their daughters to be given away at childish age to men of mature years or under blackmail or extortion or badal or walwar. My heart is rattled and my blood vessels tugged from my flesh whenever I hear of a girl in her early teens married off to man of maturity and experience, or forced, or coerced due to blackmail, ignorance or redeeming someone else's crime, In my view the intentions and desires of the groom loom with exploitation of the girls prematurity and innocence. There is ruthlessness and no mercy. Of course I have heard reasons put forward to DISTRACT ATTENTION from this practice, such as as consummation doesn't take place till the 'right' age or it is the tradition of the prophet, or its solution utilitarian. So avoiding distraction, who in our society oversees the right is maintained, HAQ is observed, innocence is not robbed, exploitation does not occur? Who has the power to see the intent, NIYA'?

So if we agree, in consensus, in morality of right and wrong that this is wrong, right?
Is there a counter example when it is ever righ to practice this? Really?

Ok then proceed to Shariah convoluted with traditions: who has the answer? Is your answer better than mine because you read more accepted books? Do you have undisputed authoritative answer of what is age of consent according to Shariah? Is it alright to continue our traditions because it isn't explicitly mentioned in the Quran. Are you taking the words of the schools at AlAzhar or at Madinah or at Karachi or at Deoband or Bahreil? Because, I assure you someone, ONE, will defend their school of thought, their Imam, their village maulawi and it will end up bloody fatal. My point here is there are mullahs/maulawi who are sanctioning these marriages with violations of Shariah conditions and Bukhari customs that we all have a read and understand, and still allowing marriages with out consent that is clearly mentioned. Then come the defenders of this action, "oh the girl knows the man, she has heard the proceedings been discussed in the family and she is consenting in her [coy] silence".

We have dimly educated maulawi sanctioning such marriages, who will quickly mention Umm Al Momineen Aisha (r) and her circumstances. We have the STERA MAQEMA failing to carry out its duty, duty of MAQEMA. We have Islamic government, so it claims, with Islamic scholars who are not overseeing their maulawis in their education of Islam. Then there is growing number of 'scholars of Islam' coming out with differing interpretations of Islam, like this TV sheikh Ibrahim from Jordan(?), you can recognise him by his goatee and pinstripe suits. There is clearly confusion amongst the ummah, and the uneducated, weak and poor are being mercilessly exploited.

I don't have an answer, I am not a Scholar of Islam with undisputed answers but I am shouting as loud as I can that THIS UNDER AGE MARRIAGE OF GIRLS TO OLDER MEN practice is an abuse of innocent girls and boys, there is exploitation that is being perpetuated, accepted and ignored. The POOR PARENTS, INNOCENT GIRLS, ARE BEING EXPLOITED AND BLACKMAILED. And you know it is oppression. I do say it to all I meet, in Kandahar. The stare, or agree, but I know some of them in their heads have another reason they think is so pressing that it defies mercy of Allah(j).

Bacha Bazi is not spared either.

If a woman sexually matured and chooses to marry a man, then there is no age limit. This can happen at a very young age. When exactly, I wouldn't know. I don't know the details.

[torkham]

If a woman sexually matured and chooses to marry a man, then there is no age limit. This can happen at a very young age. When exactly, I wouldn't know. I don't know the details.

That's clear, "if she chooses...." Legitimate point [1]

However there is a balance to consider between sexual maturity and mental maturity. Two factors which develope at different rates. Then mental maturity and sexual maturity can teeter both ways. BTW mental maturity if it is at an age, is also an arbitrary demarcation. Who chooses that? How (criteria) is it chosen? Eventually over centuries or decades I am sure, out of parsimony, someone makes a decision and says 18, or 17 or 21. But equally it would a legitimate point [2] to say that sexual maturity, at on set of pubert, is the demarcation of "age of consent". There the conflict of opinions will begin and "we are more civilised than those barbarians" type of ignorant arguments are born.

My contention is the OPPRESSION by mature/vicious/powerful/wealthy/creditor over the immature/virtuous/weak/poor/debtor.

[Khostai]

If a woman sexually matured and chooses to marry a man, then there is no age limit. This can happen at a very young age. When exactly, I wouldn't know. I don't know the details.

Mental maturity does not appear magicaly once a girl gets here periode. There could be girls aged 10 who get there periods. So if they get tricked by some pedo to marry him. You will accept it?

[torkham]

Reference:
the TV sheikh I alluded to is Dr Adnan Ibrahim PhD philosophy Palestinian Austrian imam of Leopold Islamic centre Vienna

He re-interprets islam shedding new explanations.
(Wikipedia)

He appeared on Arabic tv last ramzan.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

That's clear, "if she chooses...." Legitimate point [1]

However there is a balance to consider between sexual maturity and mental maturity. Two factors which develope at different rates. Then mental maturity and sexual maturity can teeter both ways. BTW mental maturity if it is at an age, is also an arbitrary demarcation. Who chooses that? How (criteria) is it chosen? Eventually over centuries or decades I am sure, out of parsimony, someone makes a decision and says 18, or 17 or 21. But equally it would a legitimate point [2] to say that sexual maturity, at on set of pubert, is the demarcation of "age of consent". There the conflict of opinions will begin and "we are more civilised than those barbarians" type of ignorant arguments are born.

My contention is the OPPRESSION by mature/vicious/powerful/wealthy/creditor over the immature/virtuous/weak/poor/debtor.

I've lived in Europe all my life. I've seen people way above 30 still being as immature as 8 year olds. And they are not even mentally ill.

So I don't know if it is possible to decide at what age all men and women are mature. That's an arbitrary decision.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Mental maturity does not appear magicaly once a girl gets here periode. There could be girls aged 10 who get there periods. So if they get tricked by some pedo to marry him. You will accept it?

Since we are dicussing mental maturity, when are you going to become mentally mature?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Reference:
the TV sheikh I alluded to is Dr Adnan Ibrahim PhD philosophy Palestinian Austrian imam of Leopold Islamic centre Vienna

He re-interprets islam shedding new explanations.
(Wikipedia)

He appeared on Arabic tv last ramzan.

Adnan Ibrahim is a kaafir. People who like his talks obviously don't know anything about Islam. The guy is a charlatan.

[torkham]

Lol. I agree. Hence the confusion amongst his Muslim viewers stemming from his new interpretations which appease westerners (his Austrian hosts) and Muslims who are looking for other reasons that suit their interpretations.
On top of that he is a sensationalist. And he has gone noticed for making other robustly ludicrous claims about perpetual motion.