MoU on military academy inked with UK

[Admin Khan]

It is in Pakistan and Bangladesh's strategic interest to never pick a fight with India. They will get swallowed.

[Friend]

It is in Pakistan and Bangladesh's strategic interest to never pick a fight with India. They will get swallowed.

That is right but do you think that war will only be limited to Pakistan and Bangladesh ?

[drona]

It is in Pakistan and Bangladesh's strategic interest to never pick a fight with India. They will get swallowed.

Ha ha .. Admin Lala we don't want to suffer from indigestion.

Seriously, India has enough poverty without taking on millions of starving Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Ideally, we would like BD to develop economically so that they can find jobs in their own country as we have a huge problem of illegal BD immigrants in India. Pakistan, of course, should be balkanized in the interest of all the people living in Pakistan occupied territories [ Balochs, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Seraikis, Hindkos, Baltis, Jinnahpuris etc.] There is slim chance of that, but still ..

[Admin Khan]

Ha ha .. Admin Lala we don't want to suffer from indigestion.

Seriously, India has enough poverty without taking on millions of starving Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Ideally, we would like BD to develop economically so that they can find jobs in their own country as we have a huge problem of illegal BD immigrants in India. Pakistan, of course, should be balkanized in the interest of all the people living in Pakistan occupied territories [ Balochs, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Seraikis, Hindkos, Baltis, Jinnahpuris etc.] There is slim chance of that, but still ..

Drona bhai, I'm just politely warning the chest-thumping neighbors to think 71 times before they even get the slightest hint of taking down a nation like India. I understand even the weakest of nations flex their muscles for socio-political reasons, but I don't view Pakistan and Bangladesh in the same tier as India -- I guess I apologize to Zaid Hamid? They should cooperate, and work on development instead.

India surely suffers from poverty, but with foreign investment on the rise, bundled with a nearly 2 trillion dollar economy -- and great rising higher educational institutions, there is simply no comparison with a Banana republic like Pakistan. Bangladesh seems to be on an upward trend, but any confrontation with India will send them quickly to the stone age, and any rational person will agree to this. I personally condemn any interference, that will slow BD growth or economy, but to deny any Indian role in their independence is simply flawed logic at it's best. India played a huge covert role, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they dispatched some Calcutta Bengalis. That however, doesn't imply that Bengalis did not bleed. In fact, Bengalis themselves played the biggest role. India's role to BD, was similar to the US role in Afghan-soviet war. Despite Afghanistan defeating the USSR, it is also irrational to believe that this could've happened without the US assistance. The US armed the Afghans, and gave them the hardware needed to battle the Russians. Gone are those days when a bunch of Afghans invade India 17 times, and walk around wearing a crown in India. Although I know that the Afghan Sher Shah Suri is highly praised by India, who subsequently founded the modern day Rupee.


In short, I'm being realistic here. I don't view the US and India on the same tier, but when it comes to South Asia, to deny that India can swallow up every single one of it's neighbors is simply irrationality. India is a rising BRIC economy, who will sooner or later be the major player in the region. There are certainly internal problems, but knowing how RAW works, things are going in an upward trend.

I do have a problem with India's higher education system, but that's my constructive criticism for the betterment of India -- and I'll save that for another thread.

[JattApache]

"Asad71" ( from Defence.pk ) is a big joke.

Even assam region of east india is more powerful than bangladesh :



Even calcutta and west bengal is powerful



Like admin khan said,
We cannot compare india with these little countries, it's ridiculous

But we can compare india with china

[asad71]

asad71,

In which area of defense can Afg and BD cooperate for good reasons? Can you elaborate please. I don't know much about BD military, but I am hoping it is a lot better than you civil bureaucracy and bureaucrats.

1.Being fellow Muslims Afghans will feel comfortable in training with us. You remember the recent debacle in India where Afghan trainees were censored by the Indians for practicing Islamic rituals. Afghans will find a familiar and acceptable cultural environment in BD.

2. Unlike India and Pakistan our armed forces are neither colonial in character nor do they glorify any such historical linkage. In short we are not a nation of mercenaries for which the British had branded us "non-martial" and kept us out of military service. The Afghan nation has the same characteristics.

3. We have academies training officer cadets for the army, navy and the air force. We have all the special to arms and services training institutions. There is a Staff College. War College and National Defense College are also there. The Military Institute of Science & Technology awards post graduate degrees. There is an Armed Forces Medical College. We even have an institute where we train officers from all over the world on UN Peace Missions

[abassinafghan]

there is certain point that britian is establishing a officers academie , considering our history this a great insult !!!

why was not taken turkey , italy or the usa to establish such a facility ????


besides to this ,we had our own military academy and system , though it was outdated and not so progressive , but to go our own way and establish our own doctrines.

By sending caddetts to different foreign academies and taking the experience of the few left over saimanzaban , and incorparating their experiences combiend with the experiences of different countries and their approaches , would be the right way.

not just copying british monkeys...

[randolph85]

i still find the idea of an afghan military based on the principles of the west, which have almost an unlimited supply of money, to be ridiculous. afghanistan does not and probably never will have the capability to wage a state sponsored conventional war, so this is all useless. id rather the afghan government find the best and brightest of the last 30 years of jihad to form a military academy.

[abassinafghan]

find the best and brightest of the last 30 years of jihad to form a military academy.

lol of them were trained by the west . besides there were non bright people among them , just see what happend in the 90s , bright people dont do this . and ana is full of so called bright people .

all strategical dicisions were made by western military advisors for the so called mujahedin .

afghanistan does not and probably never will have the capability to wage a state sponsored conventional war

this is nonsence , the critical point was always the political will , in the last 30 years we had a political divison and and a steady state of civil war , in which the state collapsed .

in such envoirement it is obvious that without a state , there can be not defence forces .

and unless , there is not a determined state which has got the peoples interesst on his mind , and not the interesst of mr, america or muslim muslim brother , we will continue to suffer .

if pakistan could beg for somuch military aid and sell their selfes as a strategic partner .

if today the americans attack iran , even if they do it from the arabian peninsula , you will see the iranians bomb afghanistan , because they know we can not hit back .

same thing is happening now at the broder , pakis are firing rockets on us , because america cuts the cash for them .

so a strong conventionall army in combination with a draft like in swiss , is the best soloution .

but as i said before , the political will is much more important , because war is just politics with different tools .

[asad71]

1.Another pertinent issue is the Afghan state's fundamental principles. Will these change with the end of Karzai Govt? An Afghan Corps of Military Officers will need to be developed/ molded keeping in mind the State Principles.

2. Like Muslim soldiers all over the world the Afghan soldier also derives his strength from Islam. His war cry is the same that a Bengladeshi soldier or any Muslim soldier yells in battle: "Allah O Akbar". Afghans are totally anti-secularist. These are all understood. But various questions remain and can be found in the vast differences between the fundamentals of IEA and Karzai's IRA. Afghans need to address these so that the Officer Corps is adequately equipped morally, spiritually and emerges with a character that the nation requires.

[abassinafghan]

anti-secularis

what does this mean ???

am i a secularist , because i dont belive the words of any donkey who has got his own agenda and use religion to hide his agenda ???

do i have to belive the words of some one just because he says 10 times wallah , even if i have proof that it is obvious that he lies `?

do i have to judge the acts of people by the standart that they pray 5 times a day have a beard , and talk no and then about islam , even all their acts contradicts his claims ???

grow up people , sometimes i think i am just sourrounded by children in this board

[asad71]

Since the discussions have veered into Indian military providing training to Afghans, this report is relevant.


Indian army facing breakdown in ranks

Indian army facing breakdown in ranks
Indian army facing breakdown in ranks


The Indian army is grappling with growing concerns a failure of leadership and a drop in the quality of officer recruits is behind a breakdown of discipline among key combat units.

In the last three months, Army Chief General Bikram Singh has been quietly visiting army bases across the country, emphasising to India's 1 million-strong army the core values of a disciplined army and a renewed stress on officer-soldier relations.

It follows three major incidents of troop discipline in the past eight month, all related to combat units.

Founder of the Defence Planning Staff, Major General Ashok Mehta, has told Radio Australia's Connect Asia program, the issues relate to the relationship between officers and soldiers.

"The visible manifestation of the problem might be not granting leave or otherwise," he said.

"[However], the basic issue that comes out of any cases of collective indiscipline reflect the fact that the officer-man management - those relations have snapped."

Earlier this month, there were reports of a stand-off between officers and men from 16 Cavalry located at Samba in Jammu and Kashmir, close to the border with Pakistan.

In early May, there was a huge brawl at Nyoma, close to the Line of Actual Control in eastern Ladakh, when troops from an artillery unit clashed with officers, resulting in several hospitalisations from serious injuries.

Army Headquarters described the clash - the worst of its kind since some units mutinied in 1984 - as "an incident of indiscipline," not a mutiny.

There was yet another skirmish prior to this.

Lieutenant General R.K. Sawhney, a former deputy army chief, says the clashes do not point to a complete breakdown of discipline.

"The three cases have found out to be ultimately because of command failure, actually," he said.

"That is being looked into, but this is not very alarming. Sure it is a pointer that the army has to be conscious about, but I won't say discipline has broken down."

Strategic analyst Saurabh Joshi says much of the current concerns about discipline are due to the changed nature of both combat and the soldiers themselves, creating a more stressful environment.

"Troops are more educated, they are more connected, they are more aware," he said

"This is not the Indian army of 20 years back - the leadership of the army must recognize that and deal with that course correction because I fear this could happen again."

"More problematically, the issue is that these incidents are not taking place in a peace station. They are taking place in sensitive locations - those deployments are very important."

Indian army facing breakdown in ranks - Australia Network News - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[randolph85]

lol of them were trained by the west . besides there were non bright people among them , just see what happend in the 90s , bright people dont do this . and ana is full of so called bright people .

all strategical dicisions were made by western military advisors for the so called mujahedin .

what do you mean trained by the west? do you really think out of the thousands of attacks and ambushes during the 80s by the mujahadin, there was some isi or cia agent at the end of a walki talki directing this action? the only training afghans got by foreigners were how to use weaponry. certainly no isi/cia officials who's countries have no experience in fighting guerrilla wars directly would be able to conduct them. i would say the people who were trained to fire a weapon have more experience in warfare on their own terrain after 10 years than the fools who trained them for a couple of weeks. never mind the fact that even after the 80s, these same countries are suffering loses due to guerrilla wars. being a commander takes some kind of skill, being a guerrilla fighter does not. when a modern skyscraper goes up, it was built by 5% skilled professionals and 95% nearly unskilled laborers.

your ana comment is a perfect example, its trying to be a conventional army when afghanistan has never had a large conventional army. they are following the failures of the commie governments of the 80s. in times of war against the british, the conventional army was dissolved and the fighting was left to the tribes.

this is nonsence , the critical point was always the political will , in the last 30 years we had a political divison and and a steady state of civil war , in which the state collapsed .

in such envoirement it is obvious that without a state , there can be not defence forces .

and unless , there is not a determined state which has got the peoples interesst on his mind , and not the interesst of mr, america or muslim muslim brother , we will continue to suffer .

if pakistan could beg for somuch military aid and sell their selfes as a strategic partner .

if today the americans attack iran , even if they do it from the arabian peninsula , you will see the iranians bomb afghanistan , because they know we can not hit back .

same thing is happening now at the broder , pakis are firing rockets on us , because america cuts the cash for them .

so a strong conventionall army in combination with a draft like in swiss , is the best soloution .

but as i said before , the political will is much more important , because war is just politics with different tools .

in the future, what nation will afghanistan ever fight a war against? either iran or pakistan and how likely would that be? almost zero. political will has nothing to do with it, MONEY has everything to do with it. political will comes from the guarantee that the war effort will be successful and that is only if there is enough money to fund such an endeavor.

fighting a conventional war takes a lot of money. afghanistan mobilizing its entire army on the western border of iran would probably drain its entire annual defense budget lol never mind the obvious technological deficiency.