70% of Afghan women are raped via forced marriages

[RevolutionThroughReason]

first you dont know what the correspondence is, your just guessing.
second, there is a difference how marriage is perceived in the west and east. your looking at it as rape because you grew up with the western perspective. Arranged marriages in the pashtun culture is norm. In the west, drinking before sex is the norm, in pashtun culture that would be regarded as rape. Its different perspective. You are lost.

No I look it as rape because it is by definition rape; The Western scapegoat tactic is assumed on your part and not demonstrated.

Arranged marriages where consent is involved are not what's being invoked here What' you're doing HERE right now is a classic example of a Red Herring , watch and learn.

If this forced marriages are a norm of Pashtun culture; then what else can be said that Pashtun culture more or less sanctions rape....what better example of how warped Pashtuns are and what major hypocrites people like yourself are when criticizing the west who AT LEAST give women the choice.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

if only a womans honour actually meant something to all these "ghairatmand" khalakh

Ghairatmand and Namous are only pretentions; what it really means is not concern for women's honor but rather their lack of masculinity.

[khushal]

Trust me on this one it's not a straw an, it's a showcase of the perpetual denial syndrome that yourself and others have, using examples usually given by Taliban apologists (although you swear you're not one) like yourself.

Please educate yourself about what logical fallacies are; I know you get impressed when I use them and like an obnoxious little kid who thinks he can learn Kung Fu by just watching someone on TV do it, you always errantly apply them.

sure it is, a straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition, and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

The argument is about forced or arranged marriages and your ranting about the taliban, your sounding more and more like soldat.

[khushal]

No I look it as rape because it is by definition rape; The Western scapegoat tactic is assumed on your part and not demonstrated.

Arranged marriages where consent is involved are not what's being invoked here What' you're doing HERE right now is a classic example of a Red Herring , watch and learn.

If this forced marriages are a norm of Pashtun culture; then what else can be said that Pashtun culture more or less sanctions rape....what better example of how warped Pashtuns are and what major hypocrites people like yourself are when criticizing the west who AT LEAST give women the choice.

First of all, your source is talking about arranged marriages because It is impossible that 80% are forced. We need to know how they came to this number because I can tell you that hardly any in my village are forced but majority are arranged.

Second, I said arranged marriages are a norm in pashtun culture. It is you who is guilty of a red herring here by intentionally changing my position so you could easily attack it. Be honest here.

Third, What do you mean the west is giving women a choice, getting them intoxicated with alcohol and drugs isnt giving them a choice. Using them as a commodity to sell products and selling them as sexual commodity is corruption not freedom. Women are abused as much if not more in the west as they are in the east. You sir are under the influence of propaganda.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

sure it is, a straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition, and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

The argument is about forced or arranged marriages and your ranting about the taliban, your sounding more and more like soldat.

Exactly; I didn't missrepresent my opponents position; I listed characteristic denials levied by people like yourself; you guys have an excuse for everything, no matter how asinine.

No the argument is ABOUT forced marriages; YOU introduced simply arranged marriages, The Straw Man is yours

[khushal]

Ghairatmand and Namous are only pretentions; what it really means is not concern for women's honor but rather their lack of masculinity.

Then the whole world lacks masculinity

[RevolutionThroughReason]

First of all, your source is talking about arranged marriages because It is impossible that 80% are forced. We need to know how they came to this number because I can tell you that hardly any in my village are forced but majority are arranged.

Second, I said arranged marriages are a norm in pashtun culture. It is you who is guilty of a red herring here by intentionally changing my position so you could easily attack it. Be honest here.

Third, What do you mean the west is giving women a choice, getting them intoxicated with alcohol and drugs isnt giving them a choice. Using them as a commodity to sell products and selling them as sexual commodity is corruption not freedom. Women are abused as much if not more in the west as they are in the east. You sir are under the influence of propaganda.

They choose to get intoxicated, Most women aren't allowed into bars without appropriate IDs, But even in cases where coercion of trickery is involved is pale in comparison to DIRECT AND OVERT force of women into sexual acts against their will which arises from forced marriages, both in numerical frequency and damage caused.


Your position was a red herring since I never mentioned simply arranged marriages; so because you responded to something I said regarding forced marriages; your argument became applied to forced marriages, and "Arranged marriages" would only logically be a euphemism for forced marriages in this context, thus you show that Pashtuns have a sanction of rape enshrined in the culture

well done.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Then the whole world lacks masculinity

Even if that were true, Pashtuns as you have demonstrate by your remarks; are currently in their present state, at the bottom of the barrel. At least other societies, except maybe Saudi Arabia and the ilk give women some choices in respects to their fate.

[khushal]

They choose to get intoxicated, Most women aren't allowed into bars without appropriate IDs, But even in cases where coercion of trickery is involved is pale in comparison to DIRECT AND OVERT force of women into sexual acts against their will which arises from forced marriages, both in numerical frequency and damage caused.

so building institutions for them to get intoxicated so they be easily abused is morally right? Thats called manipulation and entrapment. Remember a person who has consumed alcohol cant really give consent since he/she is not coherent to do therefore rape is the norm in western culture since this is extremely common with almost all people participating in these customs.

Your position was a red herring since I never mentioned simply arranged marriages; so because you responded to something I said regarding forced marriages; your argument became applied to forced marriages, and "Arranged marriages" would only logically be a euphemism for forced marriages in this context, thus you show that Pashtuns have a sanction of rape enshrined in the culture

well done.

Dude your source in reality is talking about arranged marriages. I need evidence on how this number of 80% was concluded. It is impossible for this number to correlate to forced marriages.

You have never been to pashtunland, what would you know what happens there or why it happens. your looking at it from a distorted western lens.

[khushal]

Even if that were true, Pashtuns as you have demonstrate by your remarks; are currently in their present state, at the bottom of the barrel. At least other societies, except maybe Saudi Arabia and the ilk give women some choices in respects to their fate.

Yes this is a choice. lol

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/media-blamed-for-rise-in-eating-disorders-718088.html

http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/19516

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/parenting-family/teen-ya/2010-09-06-sex-education_N.htm

There is no such thing as choice when there is so much corruption. It is all manipulation. you are a lost one. you might see western men protecting their women becasue you grew up in the west, all I see is abuse to the highest degree
.
They choose to drink:

http://www.sciforums.com/SHOCKING-Facts-about-WOMEN-ABUSE-in-the-civilized-West-t-16365.html

95% of violent crime on Campus is alcohol or drug related

http://www.thestar.com/atkinsonseries/atkinson2011/article/1090125--women-are-the-new-face-of-alcohol-advertising

kids are victims of so called free choice of drinking:

http://suite101.com/article/alcohol-advertising-and-teens-a22525

http://www.sltrib.com/columnists/ci_13209653

[asad71]

IT IS rape you freak, there is no western or eastern, rape is coercing sex with someone under any circumstance, there is no equating rape to forced marriages, rape is the product of forced marriages, hence there is a near 1-1 correspondence.

1. "Freak" is an unkind word. If you use that ever again, you will be reported.

2. In the West, gay marriage, living together with off-springs being legal, extra marital sex, pre-marriage sex, etc are accepted and common. In our eastern/Muslim societies these do exist in a far lesser extent, but are not accepted.

3.Definitions differ. Remember Clinton and Lewinsky. The definition of a sexual act saved Clinton. In some countries, sufficient penetration is to be proved to establish the act of rape.

4.Your idea that forced marriage is undesirable is accepted, although what is "forced" is to be decided first. Normally parents give out their daughter in marriage after carefully considering all sorts of factors. My point is "rape" has to be viewed in perspective.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Yes this is a choice. lol

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/media-blamed-for-rise-in-eating-disorders-718088.html

http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/19516

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/parenting-family/teen-ya/2010-09-06-sex-education_N.htm

There is no such thing as choice when there is so much corruption. It is all manipulation. you are a lost one. you might see western men protecting their women becasue you grew up in the west, all I see is abuse to the highest degree
.
They choose to drink:

http://www.sciforums.com/SHOCKING-Facts-about-WOMEN-ABUSE-in-the-civilized-West-t-16365.html

http://www.thestar.com/atkinsonseries/atkinson2011/article/1090125--women-are-the-new-face-of-alcohol-advertising

kids are victims of so called free choice of drinking:

http://suite101.com/article/alcohol-advertising-and-teens-a22525

http://www.sltrib.com/columnists/ci_13209653

Everyone can site cases but these are not legally sanctioned nor are they cultural norms, as we see in Pashttun culture ..

[RevolutionThroughReason]

1. "Freak" is an unkind word. If you use that ever again, you will be reported.

And your report will be disregarded, seriously

Maybe I should call you Razakar....my Bangladeshi friend tells me that Pro-Taliban people in Bangladesh are Jamaat-i-Islami adherents whose predecessors had assisted Pakistan in systematic rapes of Bangladeshi women. They were called Razakars

2. In the West, gay marriage, living together with off-springs being legal, extra marital sex, pre-marriage sex, etc are accepted and common. In our eastern/Muslim societies these do exist in a far lesser extent, but are not accepted.

This has nothing to do with rape though. In the West Murder is a criminal offense, and in Islam murder is a criminal offense, so does that make it no longer a criminal offense because the West says so?

Your logic is fraudulent; Usually Bengalis are better educated you have proven to be the failure of your culture.

3.Definitions differ. Remember Clinton and Lewinsky. The definition of a sexual act saved Clinton. In some countries, sufficient penetration is to be proved to establish the act of rape

.

Which again has nothing to do with rape. Your example is incorrect there is no alternate definition for the term "sexual acts"

4.Your idea that forced marriage is undesirable is accepted, although what is "forced" is to be decided first. Normally parents give out their daughter in marriage after carefully considering all sorts of factors. My point is "rape" has to be viewed in perspective.

Forced is pretty simple; NON-CONSENTUAL.

It's not that hard to figure out

[Manzareh]

No rape is any sort of coercive sexual act. When you're coerced to have sex, for whatever reason, you are raped. It's not merely some creepy attacker sneaking up behind a woman in a parking garage. That's one instance of rape. Please actually look up the proper semantical usage of rape; There's no inductive reasoning here, we're not abstracting a concept outside of its meaning. This IS its meaning.

Alot of the time the male also does not have a second word in marriage, he is forced to marry a girl he doesnt even get a chance to see until the marriage day, so then is HE a subject to rape aswel?

[Manzareh]

it would be interesting to know which methods these people that came out with the statistic use to get a figure of between 60%-80%? knock on doors perhapse?