Pashtuns United

[Manzareh]

Ok so in this group theres always fighting, the highlight is always on the differences that we as Pashtuns have, even what a Pashtun is and what is not.

What id like to know is what do we all agree on? do we all (90%) agree on Islam being our religion? perhapse we all agree that modernisation is the key?

I think if we concentrate on the things that we all agree on, it would greatly add to development.

I'll go first; from my point of view the only think that i can think of that we all are united on is Education/Educationg our people. Anybody else?

[Toramana]

Outright unity...haan...can't say anything definitie...There are many obstackles to that i.e., Pashtun elite allied with Islamabad and Kabul in addition to the non-existance of any organized movement for achieving the unification goal...I think what seems viable ways for unification are to neutralizing the impact of Durand Line by working for peace within the Pashtun society and peace and stability in the broader region giving way to regional trade in which Pashtuns to both sides interact without or relaxed visa restrictions...

Locally, Pashtuns should focus on education and skill development....good governance, law and order, development of infrastructure, etc.

History shows more literate societites have been more successful achieving national goals than un-educated and tribal societies.

[graveyardofempires]

Outright unity...haan...can't say anything definitie...There are many obstackles to that i.e., Pashtun elite allied with Islamabad and Kabul in addition to the non-existance of any organized movement for achieving the unification goal...I think what seems viable ways for unification are to neutralizing the impact of Durand Line by working for peace within the Pashtun society and peace and stability in the broader region giving way to regional trade in which Pashtuns to both sides interact without or relaxed visa restrictions...

Locally, Pashtuns should focus on education and skill development....good governance, law and order, development of infrastructure, etc.

History shows more literate societites have been more successful achieving national goals than un-educated and tribal societies.

why do you put kabul and islamabad in the sam esentence.
you guys are a bunch of ignorant fools dont knwo what you are talking about.
this non sense should stop right here!!!

whenever there is soemthing about durrand line or pakistan haveing a chockhold on pukhtunkhwa you misinformed peopel are trying to paint us the same way using kabul parsiwaan fairytale.

the rest of your rant is typical non sense

[Toramana]

why do you put kabul and islamabad in the sam esentence.
you guys are a bunch of ignorant fools dont knwo what you are talking about.
this non sense should stop right here!!!

whenever there is soemthing about durrand line or pakistan haveing a chockhold on pukhtunkhwa you misinformed peopel are trying to paint us the same way using kabul parsiwaan fairytale.

the rest of your rant is typical non sense

grave khana, come on...What I have said has some element of truth...although it might not be entirely true...I have interacted with some Pashtun elite from Afghanistan including such people as Prof Rasul Amin (now late), Babrak Shinwari, and a couple of others and have found them as averse to this unification idea as an NA walla can be (although they said there should be cultural contacts)...This attitude is more prevalent in the old royalist elite (the Pashto-speaking and non-Pashto speaking Pashtun elite of the King Zahir Shah time)...Similarly, there is an elite on the Pakhtunkhwa side who think their interest cab better be served by Islamabad...One should also look at the general apathy of our people to this noble national cause....

What I proposed was visa-free trade and cultural relations...as now...at least to the extent of Pukhtunkhwa, Pashtuns or Afghans from Afghanistan are not considered foreigners as evidenced by a bill presented in the KPK assembly about foreigners in which Afghans were excluded from the category of foreigners....If the same thing happens in Afg that would be good...

Anyhow, in the long-run it is inevitable and will happen as a result of higher sensitization to the political , cultural, and economic challenges that Pashtuns confront...

Never forget that a free access to the seaports to the south is in our interest....

[ComradePashtun]

Toramana,
You are dead wrong, the Pashtunistan issue was strongly espoused and was central in Afghanistan's foreign policy during Zahir Shah's era, but I am afraid the Musahiban (the father and true naar Pashtun nationalist Daud) was fooled by Bacha Khan the grand pa of Asfandyar. Afghanistan was betrayed. Pathan's role in the destruction was central and Pathans are at the helm of and run Pakistani foreign policy toward Afghanistan. From the very foreign ministry to its ambassador in Kabul. From Ayub Khan dawoos to Nasrullah Babar to as we speak forward operating agents of ISI directly involved in the conflict in Afghanistan. Rishatia deer treekh wee, har cha na Afghananoo ta, wrakawa ye wrora.

Other than the few on the net I hardly can find any one that cares about Pashtun unity in Afghanistan. They have learned their lesson.

What does your very last statement mean bro?

[ComradePashtun]

Ginger is the worst Paki I know.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Comrade

Both sides have betrayed eachother, Afghans cutt support to Faqir of Ipi number of times and stayed neutral during Paki-Indo wars.

Those from Pakhtunkhwa deluded by Jamiet-Pakistaniyat mixture poison started exploiting the Afghan mess for their own benefit(Rupees/Dollars).

Both sides are equal in betrayal, but we can change this now.

[ScimitarXEdge]

[SIZE=3]
History shows more literate societites have been more successful achieving national goals than un-educated and tribal societies.

That's because Nationalism is a manufactured byproduct of the imperialism who demarcated different regions to maintain disorder and exploit the regions they came in contact with.

Notice the Tribes of Central America dont have any problem with Nationalistic Goals, they dont care for it and they live free without man made imposed on them.

[graveyardofempires]

Toramana you are still in darkness and just cuz you guys were subdued by the british through pakistan doesnt mean there should be something wrong with afghans.

the info you are presenting is irrelevant and as i said far from truth.

I was born in kabul and i know kabul much better than you and others so dont compare to some punjab or islamabad,its an Afghan city and Afghanistan is a country of Pashtuns and it saddens me seeing some brainwashed people from across the fake border making **** up.

you are talking about some bill while we are not even recognising your government in pukhtunkhwa who are pro british enslavement.

[graveyardofempires]

Comrade

Both sides have betrayed eachother, Afghans cutt support to Faqir of Ipi number of times and stayed neutral during Paki-Indo wars.

Those from Pakhtunkhwa deluded by Jamiet-Pakistaniyat mixture poison started exploiting the Afghan mess for their own benefit(Rupees/Dollars).

Both sides are equal in betrayal, but we can change this now.

your opinion is worth **** regarding Pukhtane so you either shut up and listen or keep barking.

[Toramana]

That's because Nationalism is a manufactured byproduct of the imperialism who demarcated different regions to maintain disorder and exploit the regions they came in contact with.

Notice the Tribes of Central America dont have any problem with Nationalistic Goals, they dont care for it and they live free without man made imposed on them.

Nationalism talks of native rights and identities so it is in direct confrontation with imperialist and universalist ideologies like Pan-Islam based on authoritarian principles and aiming to establish an Arab-centered universal khalafath for example through forced merger. Almost all national liberation movements in 20th Century were nationalists movements.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

GOR do you feel the need of insulting other people because they don't see things the way you do or do you enjoy throwing spite to the very people you want to unite with? Calm down and try to see what the other members are saying. If they are wrong, show them why.

Scimitar, Nationalism preceded the imperialist structure you are talking about. I am pretty sure it was the germans who first started with the concept of romantic nationalism.

[ComradePashtun]

Comrade

Both sides have betrayed eachother, Afghans cutt support to Faqir of Ipi number of times and stayed neutral during Paki-Indo wars.

Those from Pakhtunkhwa deluded by Jamiet-Pakistaniyat mixture poison started exploiting the Afghan mess for their own benefit(Rupees/Dollars).

Both sides are equal in betrayal, but we can change this now.

Yes Afghanistan remained neutral in Indo-Pak war. It is called honour and proinciple. You don't attack a muslim country in trouble like a spineless heyna from the rear - what Pakistan did to Afghanistan. I am glad Afghanistan never did that.

I have read abit on Fiqir of Ipi and how Afghan government due to pressure had cut its support. Afghanistan did all it could within it capacity to liberate Pashtunkhwa then and after when Pakistan was created. Surely if the Pashtuns east of Durand wanted to liberate themselves they could have raised to the cause and Afghanistan would've shoved in the last push. When they could raise mass lashkars for Kashmir what stoped them for Pashtunistan cause? But that wasn't the case. The very few elite and few tribes like the Afridis there post Pakistan creation made it a money making projecct from both ccountries. I highly distrust ANP, and Afghanistan should not entertain any of their shenanigans of Lar aw Bar this and that as seeking more leverage with Panjab. This has proven to me by the pattern of their politics. It can be picked on their time and situaiton bound rhetorics and only extracting benifits from the Pakistani establishment.

Who formulates its Afghanistan policy in Pakistani foreign ministry, who is its ambassador in Kabul, who have been the ISI heads, and who have been and are the forward operating agents of Pakistan on the Afghan front? Who has committed the real betrayal? Don't think I am just being negative or I don't love my true Pashtunkhwa brothers, I do. But Afghans need to be vigilant and need to fend for themselves against under the skin of being their own.

These things needs to be discussed. It is not my, your's or the average member's fault.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Nationalism talks of native rights and identities so it is in direct confrontation with imperialist and universalist ideologies like Pan-Islam based on authoritarian principles and aiming to establish an Arab-centered universal khalafath for example through forced merger. Almost all national liberation movements in 20th Century were nationalists movements.

That's only true in certain contexts; but most contexts Nationalism violates for example Tajiks were Natives of Afghanistan, yet Pashtun Nationalists were trying to force Tajiks of the North to speak Pashto.

In Turkey, Turkish Nationalists violate Native rights by banning Kurdish

In Iraq Arab Nationalists banned Kurdish, who were natives of the country. So You can't claim legitimately that Nationalism focuses on Native rights this is proven false. When Nationalism is used to resist an occupier it can SOMETIMES be in favor of Natives. But Most of the time it's just demarcation lines to stir animosity and conflict. We cannot deny that all the current Nations of Central Asia, South Asia and Middle East are all products of divide and rule.

Pan Islam has never been and never will be Arab Centered; Most of it's Modern Protaganists have not been Arab (Sayyid Jamaluddin Afghani) and Toramana you even once posted a source which states itself that Pan-Islamists of the Middle East would bear opposition to Pan Arabists. So the claim has no evidence. The argument of Arab centrism is an Imperialist distortion to steer Muslims against unity.

[ScimitarXEdge]

GOR do you feel the need of insulting other people because they don't see things the way you do or do you enjoy throwing spite to the very people you want to unite with? Calm down and try to see what the other members are saying. If they are wrong, show them why.

Scimitar, Nationalism preceded the imperialist structure you are talking about. I am pretty sure it was the germans who first started with the concept of romantic nationalism.

Germans were also apart of the Imperial game were they not? And you prove my point really, Nationalism is a European concept, so it's assocations with Imperialism cannot be denied.