Kashmir

[faye]

it was probably all 'nothingstan' until someone declared it 'hindustan', lol.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

it was probably all 'nothingstan' until someone declared it 'hindustan', lol.

No, it was Bharat or Desh back then.

[Karachi]

Kashmiri itself is a rare language in Pakistan.

Punjabi with a lot of Farsi, that's what all the Kashmiris I have ever met spoke.

I think you are talking about Mirpuri from Azad Kashmir, yes that is basically punjabi, but I am talking about real Kashmiri language from the valley called "koshur"

^ that sounds nothing like punjabi

also Kashmir I believe was independent before some Sikh empire captured it.

[faye]

well the kashmiris should be allowed to choose if they want to be ruled by anyone or be independent. full stop.
why is kashmir so strategically important? i read somewhere, that it is. beacause of connect to china?

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

well the kashmiris should be allowed to choose if they want to be ruled by anyone or be independent. full stop.
why is kashmir so strategically important? i read somewhere, that it is. beacause of connect to china?

Yes, because China, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan are all connected to it.

Kashmir cannot work as an independent nation.

India or Pakistan, pick your poison.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

I think you are talking about Mirpuri from Azad Kashmir, yes that is basically punjabi, but I am talking about real Kashmiri language from the valley called "koshur"

^ that sounds nothing like punjabi

also Kashmir I believe was independent before some Sikh empire captured it.

I have mainly met Mirpuris and some other people from Azad Kashmir.

Kashmir was respected by all the rulers.

[faye]

you mean others won't let it be independent, not that it can't be.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

you mean others won't let it be independent, not that it can't be.

It is highly unlikely Kashmir will become independent and if it did, it would be a mess.

Its a small place with a small population of various ethnic groups and religions.

Do you want another Pakistan? That is what would happen if a seperate state of Kashmir was made.

[faye]

the kashmiri men i met, all seemed very smart and cool. i spent lots of days chatting with these guys as i was trying to charm them for good prices on some afghan jewellery that i was going to buy, plus they are intelligent and charming men. good company.
actually, they are probably the best businessmen in india. better even than the tibetans, lol.

well, hakim, that is not a good opinion of the kashmiris capabilities, if given the chance.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Let the Kashmiris join us

Free Baluchistan?

I will support that as long as they give us marine benefits.

Baloch are good people so they probably will.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

the kashmiri men i met, all seemed very smart and cool. i spent lots of days chatting with these guys as i was trying to charm them for good prices on some afghan jewellery that i was going to buy, plus they are intelligent and charming men. good company.
actually, they are probably the best businessmen in india. better even than the tibetans, lol.

well, hakim, that is not a good opinion of the kashmiris capabilities, if given the chance.

I do not believe in the division of lands, especially small lands.

That is why I am against it, I do not doubt the Kashmiri's business strategies.

[faye]

ok. hakim doesn't believe in a small country having it's independence, i will tell the
kashmiris they should forget it. right.
but you want to steal baluchistan.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

ok. hakim doesn't believe in a small country having it's independence, i will tell the
kashmiris they should forget it. right.
but you want to steal baluchistan.

I have told them and they respect my view. Some agree, some want indpendence.

I believe it will be a loss to further divide people.

That Baluchistan was originally ours, so I am reclaiming and not stealing.
They should be free like the Kurds, they are a strong nation.

OK Kashmir can be free too, I will move there and watch them.

[faye]

checkmate!

[torkham]

I met sardar Ibrahim khan suddan in rawlakot back in 1994. He was the first president of Kashmir that is linked to Pakistan. He told me that suddan people of western Kashmir are of afghan ancestry. Suddan referring to sadozai. (personally I doubt it as there are no language or cultural remnants to even remotely link Pashtun ancestry with sudhan of AJK - another afghan aspiration).

In homes the rawlakot Kashmiri speak pahari, which is quite distinct from mirpuri and kotli people who speak a dialect of punjabi/lahnda. Pahari is spoken behond muzafarabad, towards poonch, binjusa, rawlakot, rehara areas.

Kashmiri is even more linguistically remote language.