Were Taleban that bad?

[Toramana]

Were Taleban that bad? No doubt they were a retard bunch trying to impose a midieval type system on people of Afghanistan and were orthodox and uncompromising in the interpretation of religion and harsh in the implementation of law but to say that they were the ideological or moral equivalent of Natzis is far from truth.

Doesn't it smack of politics?

Is there any statistics by an impartial source (neither Western nor Northern Alliance or their relatives and affiliates nor Islamists) to show how many people did they kill.

It is an irony that many anti-Pashtun factions including Northern Alliance sypathizers exaggerate their acts to malign the historical role of Pashtuns in the region.

Another injustice is, their rise and fall is not described/analyzed in the context.

What do you people say about this thing?

[Michin Khel]

Talibans bring peace and stability but they were pushing the country to stone age. They were good administrators but only mullahs were authority.
It is N.A propaganda that they commited rapes and plunders, they were the ones who stopped rapes.
They were of primitive mindset and were non-flexible.....but they were not evil.

[Toramana]

Shlomay, you are right. To say they carried out a deliberate policy of racial extermination is not at all convincing. I think what they did was to try to maintain the integrity of Afghanistan and to enforce Sharia they thought was right. Unfortunately, there are people among Pashtuns as well, who magnify the sin of Talebans and potrey it the sins of the entire Pashtun nation.

[Toramana]

Luffy, they were evil in the sense that they didn't tolerate divergergence of any kind whether religious or political. Moreover, they were Arabs'and Punjab's agents. Pashtuns should never ever have them again.

[Toramana]

Shlombay, I happened to visit Kabul in 1990s and know how was the situation at that time. I and my dear friend met an elderly "Afghan" who was sick (heart patient) and we kind of comforted him. He insisted I go to Kabul with him. We started at 11am from Peshawar and reached the famous Pul-i-Charkhi Prison at 11pm(night). As the onward journey was dangerous, we stayed at Pul-i-Charkhi by the roadside and started at dusk-time again. After we had trvelled some distance, there were these guys with Klashikovs and knives boarding the bus and robbing us of our possesions. Some passengers suggested we should make complain to Ahmad Shah Masood who was living at Wazir Akbar Khan Maina(passengers thought they were Dostum's men). And passengers did that but to no avail.

Another distasteful incidence that I experienced was at Sarobi. There was this Mujahid who beat a boy who was 14-15 years age before all passengers.

So obviously some had to restore order if the powers that used Afghanistan to settle score with its rival power but then left it as that didn't.

Having said that, radical Islamists/Taleban are inherently destabalizing factor of no benefit to anyone except those that want to use them as their asset whether in West or in East.

[Toramana]

One days Pashtuns should write their own history including that of the Taleban depicting themselves honestly as they are. Why should outsiders be our describers and documentors?

[Nokia_Apridy]

WOS da KHUDAY TALIBAN BYA RAWELEY KHU

USAMA AWO NOR KHALAK na

safa safa wos PF ka nashu lekley bya zma Post Delte shi.

[Maiwand]

The majority of the people of Afghanistan are muslims and want a just and peaceful country, they also want islamic rule. The Taliban are the only ones that can provide that to them, that's why the majority of the people supports them and they are growing day by day, don't believe the deception and misinformation coming from the mouthpiece of shaitan (western media). They are going to liberate afghanistan very soon inshallah and the islamic government will return, that is shariah. All those who are against an islamic government can stay where they are right now (western countries), because they will lose in the future their islamic identity and become one of the immoral and filthy disbelievers in their filthy melting pot and be humiliated in this life (as the slaves of their capitalist system and people who are controlled and directed by their whims and desires) and they will suffer hard in the hereafter. In the meantime the muslims of afghanistan and other parts of the world will have their heads high (even though they are poor or don't have much materialistic desires or properties) and eventually they will liberate the other islamic countries and form the khilafah state. So the choise is you either support the muslims (taliban and other mujahideen) or you support disbelievers with their immoral and filthy way of life, as long as your are comfortable with homosexuality, pornography, debauchery, prostitution, we don't want such filth as you to pollute our pure islamic way of life, so stay where you are.

[Khidr]

I disagree. Toramana, when your daughter is raped( god forbid) by a bunch of Uzbeks, Tajiks(N.A) and there is no one to offer your justice, the Taliban were there and that is why an old mullah in Arghandab,Kandahar decided to stand up against the atrocities since no one in other provinces had the guts to stand up against them. .

BAHAHA

Are you saying the Taliban originated BECAUSE TAJIKS AND UZBEKS WERE RAPING PASHTUNS IN KANDAHAR? Where did you get this from???????????
Even the Taliban claim that they originated because Kandahar was divided between 4-5 Pashtun tribes who were committing heinous acts including rape against each other.

Ismat Achakzai's militia had their own little fiefdom, Naqibullah's Alikozai had his area, Gul Agha's Popalzai had his, Mullah Nasim Akhundzada has his, and Bashir had his Noorzai area. It was Pashtun raping Pashtun, Kandahari raping Kandahari, Alikozai raping Achakzai! Don't blame your mess on others.

In many ways, as far as the situation in Kandahar region was concerned, it's perfectly understable why in an ultra-tribal society there's a need for either a foreign imposed moderate yet firm authority (such as Abdur Rahman, Nadir Shah etc) or in the absence of that an ultra-radical Islamist authority to keep calm and peace amongst the tribes.

[Khidr]

When you guys are making excuses for your rapists and genociders, who out-raped and out-massacred the worst of your Tajik rapists and Uzbeks, you can't complain when other people defend their 'rapists.'

Here is one video/example of Talib massacre and rape of Tajiks.
YouTube - Beneath The Veil - Women In Islam(Part 5 of 5)[/URL]

[Khidr]

Shlombay or anyone for that matter: Can you provide me evidence or if you can’t provide evidence then at least a logical analysis based on facts of the battles/wars of 1980-2001 as to when Tajik MILITIAS raped/massacred Pashtun civillians or when they may have raped or massacred Pashtun civillians PRIOR to the massacre of Taliban soldiers and their sympathizers in 2001.


I acknowledge that most probably some Tajiks would have been involved with the Hazara and Uzbeks in killing of Talib SOLDIERS in 2001. This is AFTER the Taliban’s genocides.

Don’t give me Hezb Wahdat Hazaras atrocities of Pashtuns in Kabul City, because that was Hazaras who were fighting Tajiks of Massoud and Pashtuns of Sayaaf. They committed numerous massacres against Tajiks and Pashtuns, and in return suffered an unfortunate and widely reported massacre called the ‘Afshar massacre’ at the hands of Pashtuns and Tajiks in Kabul City.

So can anyone provide any logical indicator or even better evidence/reports of these supposed Tajik MILITIA massacres of Pashtuns prior to 2001??????

[Feroza_Banu]

^a heart breaking video indeed. thank you for sharing. there is no justification for the actions of any murderer or any rapist... no matter who they are and no matter where they come from... According to Quran, when one man is murdered, the whole humanity is murdered.

heart breaking!

[Shayesta]

Is there any statistics by an impartial source to show how many people did they kill.

During their era there were no police reports to mention of, no bureaus to complain to, no women-right activists to go to, or anything else similar. I was shocked to hear what a huge percentage of women in Kabul separated from their husband's right after Taliban's fall, because that wasn't possible for them during Taliban. Not saying divorce is a good thing but just the fact so many women were living in suffocation all these years says enough about justice done back then. Not. And then people claim Taliban ain't against women-right.

when your daughter is rapedby a bunch of Uzbeks, Tajiks(N.A) and there is no one to offer your justice,

What if a Tajik or Uzbek's daughter was raped by a Taliban supporter a.k.a. Pukhtoons? Who was there to bring them justice?

the Taliban were there and that is why an old mullah in Arghandab,Kandahar decided to stand up against the atrocities since no one in other provinces had the guts to stand up against them.

Can you stop acting as if entire Afghanistan is about Kandahar? Yeah, we got it already that Pukhto originates from Kandahar, our founder was a Kandahari (respectively), Kandahar is one of our main and biggest provinces, blahdi blahdi blah. But a province called Balkh exists as well. A province called Herat exists as well. A province called Kabul exists as well. And for the rest figure it out yourself.

The Taliban formed to defend the honor of Pashtuns.

And dishonor other ethnics? If not then why did they become leaders of entire of Afghanistan if their concern is with Pukhtoons only? And then you call Northern Alliance hypocrites for caring for their own ethnic?

Pashto was introduced again after Masood and his comrades had declared Afghanistan as being yash kishwar farsizaban.

Pukhto was introduced during Zahir Shah's era already, only reason it became more 'popular' under Taliban was because it was forced this time.

Taliban were formed to bring peace to Afghanistan in the war torn country.

Ehh, by the very same Pakistan which supported war in our country in first place!?

That is why recent estimates show 80 percent of the Afghan population want the govt to talk to Taliban and even today they have shadow governors that get the job done.

And amongst those 80% are also Northern Alliance supports, what the hell does that have to with Taliban being 'peaceful' leaders!? They are backing talks because they want a decision to be made on Afghanistan, not because they support return of Taliban!

They were innocent Pashtuns.

At the same time bunch of illiterates as well who couldn't spell their own name and dreamed of keeping a country under their thumbs which once was known as land of scholars!

They were like your father and my father who were just fed up with other ethnic groups massacring us and they picked up their machinery,

Same could be said about Northern Alliance supporters. They were innocent Tajiks/Hazaras/Uzbeks who were just fed up of ethnic-discrimination in North by Taliban and picked up their arms.

changed the capital to Kandahar and said our language is Pashto, and we are Pashtuns. The rest is history.

Then why didn't they form an independent Pukhtunistan back then? Tajiks never were history, Dari never was history, Nawrooz never was history, and nor do a bunch of illiterate donkeys have got the right to decide what's history and what's not!

They did not kill innocent civilians like the N.A or the west, they killed anyone who stood up against them which were N.A

And once again the same could be claimed by Northern Alliance supporters; Northern Alliance didn't kill 'innocent' people, they just killed anyone who stood up against them. May they be children, may they be women!

Because look at Kandahar, you cant see any bungalows or rich mansions left by them.

How much money was there in Afghanistan during their era? Enough for each of them to create mansions?

They all lived in the streets of Kandahar, houses they owned for centuries and did not take bribe.

Massoud actually did exactly the same. He was living in mountains of Panjsher and last summer I saw his house in Kabul where he used to live from a distance; Every single relative of mine back home got more luxuries than he ever had! Does this make Massoud sound any less evil then?

Today, if you visit shahrenu Kandahar, its full of million dollars mansions all made by war lords.

Ask those very same warlords how much it cost them to leave Taliban's lap and say 'hi' to Dollars again?

They wanted Afghanistan to prosper but they needed Paki support since N.A was getting Iranian support.

Northern Alliance was hardly formed back then; Back then it was Hizbe Wahdat, Shoraye Nazar, Massoud, Rabbani, etcetera. And those were very same people who also started their journey with the help of this very same Pakistan. Read up some history mate. At least Iran isn't supporting them with suicide-bombings!


Will come back to rest of the replies later on today.

[Manzareh]

i have 1 reason to say the taliban were good and this one reason is good enough. and it is that they banned BACHABAZI a disgusting act and the people that do it are the most disgusting people in the world, i give props for the taliban to stop such deceases..

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

it seems like there are two competing, contradictory but at times complimentary narratives of the Taliban

On one hand the Talibs always emphasized they were a religious movement and non ethnic or tribal, but the reality is their appeal to many Pakhtuns was a restoration of Kabul to Pakhtuns, let be real here. It was a Pakhtun backlash and thats why Pashto was enforced.

It was a rural backlash against the non pashtun slash urban pashtuns

they did commit scorched earth policy in shamal, and blockaded bamiyan of goods to starve them out

they did kill thousands in mazar although once can understand that considering Malik Pahlawans treachery