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How did the association of Pashtuns to the Khan surname/title happen in India?

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  • How did the association of Pashtuns to the Khan surname/title happen in India?

    It seems like any Indian/Punjabi with “Khan” as his surname assumes he must have Pashtun ancestry. Does anyone know how this association started? Why has the Turkic association seemingly disappeared, and for that matter, why does it seem to be much less common among Turks than it is Indics and Paki Pashtuns?

    Also, why is that last name so common among Pakistani Pashtuns? A last name isn’t very useful when like 90% of the people in a region all use the same exact one.
    Last edited by maneatinglizard; 01-04-2019, 06:34 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post
    why does it seem to be much less common among Turks than it is Indics and Paki Pashtuns?
    Your kings:-

    Amir Dost Muhammad Khan
    Amir Sher Ali Khan
    Amir Yaqub Khan
    Amir Abdur Rahman Khan
    Amir Habibullah Khan
    King Amanullah Khan

    Cabinet of King Zahir Shah in 1933:-

    1- Sardar Muhammad Hashim Khan (Premier)
    2- Sardar Shah Mahmud Ghazi (Minister of War)
    3- Muhammad Gul Khan (Minister of interior)
    4- Faiz Muhammad Khan (Minister of Foriegn Affairs)
    5- Fazal Muhammad Khan (Minister for Justice)
    6- Ahmad Ali Khan (Minister for education)
    7- Mirza Muhammad Khan (Minister for Commerce)
    8- Allah Nawaz Khan (Minister for Public works)

    The real question is, why Afghanistani Pashtuns stopped using Khan?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Samandri View Post
      Your kings:-

      Amir Dost Muhammad Khan
      Amir Sher Ali Khan
      Amir Yaqub Khan
      Amir Abdur Rahman Khan
      Amir Habibullah Khan
      King Amanullah Khan

      Cabinet of King Zahir Shah in 1933:-

      1- Sardar Muhammad Hashim Khan (Premier)
      2- Sardar Shah Mahmud Ghazi (Minister of War)
      3- Muhammad Gul Khan (Minister of interior)
      4- Faiz Muhammad Khan (Minister of Foriegn Affairs)
      5- Fazal Muhammad Khan (Minister for Justice)
      6- Ahmad Ali Khan (Minister for education)
      7- Mirza Muhammad Khan (Minister for Commerce)
      8- Allah Nawaz Khan (Minister for Public works)

      The real question is, why Afghanistani Pashtuns stopped using Khan?
      I really hope you misspelled Allah as Allan, because no way a muslim can call himself "Allah" which means god in arabic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Samandri View Post
        Your kings:-

        Amir Dost Muhammad Khan
        Amir Sher Ali Khan
        Amir Yaqub Khan
        Amir Abdur Rahman Khan
        Amir Habibullah Khan
        King Amanullah Khan

        Cabinet of King Zahir Shah in 1933:-

        1- Sardar Muhammad Hashim Khan (Premier)
        2- Sardar Shah Mahmud Ghazi (Minister of War)
        3- Muhammad Gul Khan (Minister of interior)
        4- Faiz Muhammad Khan (Minister of Foriegn Affairs)
        5- Fazal Muhammad Khan (Minister for Justice)
        6- Ahmad Ali Khan (Minister for education)
        7- Mirza Muhammad Khan (Minister for Commerce)
        8- Allah Nawaz Khan (Minister for Public works)

        The real question is, why Afghanistani Pashtuns stopped using Khan?

        yes. why we call Gul Khans gul Khans cause they keep using the name Khan

        i bet Nationalist Pashtuns and Afghan Pashtuns also used Khan in their history but is it that they slowly realizing this is a mistake and now reclaiming their last names as Afridi, Suleimankheil, Mehsud, Yousafzai and getting rid of Khan?

        but Gul Khans still use Khan, or instead they use Arabic names as last names like Akbar, Hussein, Amin etc. etc.
        I am gone...


        farewell

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Samandri View Post
          Your kings:-

          Amir Dost Muhammad Khan
          Amir Sher Ali Khan
          Amir Yaqub Khan
          Amir Abdur Rahman Khan
          Amir Habibullah Khan
          King Amanullah Khan

          Cabinet of King Zahir Shah in 1933:-

          1- Sardar Muhammad Hashim Khan (Premier)
          2- Sardar Shah Mahmud Ghazi (Minister of War)
          3- Muhammad Gul Khan (Minister of interior)
          4- Faiz Muhammad Khan (Minister of Foriegn Affairs)
          5- Fazal Muhammad Khan (Minister for Justice)
          6- Ahmad Ali Khan (Minister for education)
          7- Mirza Muhammad Khan (Minister for Commerce)
          8- Allah Nawaz Khan (Minister for Public works)

          The real question is, why Afghanistani Pashtuns stopped using Khan?
          In documents, such as the Barakzai Geneology, Khan is often added to names of notable family members, such as Dost Mohammad Khan or his father Painda Khan (who also was called Sarfaraz Khan - for double the respect)

          There is the other issue that it is a title of respect the kind of respect associated with those who are strong, own or lead people.

          Then there is a matter that many Afghans have names on tazkara slightly different to name on say passport - the use of takhalas is there, which may include exalted terms as Khan or humble term as Khaksar

          An finally I suspect Afghans in Afghanistan started using location/city, nation-'taup' related names due to knowledge or connection, like:

          Arghandabwal
          Khakrezwal
          Kandahari
          Zabuli
          Maiwandwal
          Karzai
          Afghanmal
          Afghanzai
          Khybar
          Pashtoon

          to associate a connection to some place, people or nation, leaving given name to takara document.

          I often add Khan to a person's name when adressing with respect or honour. For instance if a certain Dawran Afghanmal (fictitious) is invited to my home, I may introduce him as Dawran Khan.

          But the plethora of Khans in the east is possibly due to not knowing their a Qom or a place with Afghan affinity eg Bollywood Khans do that, they either don't know their Qom or confuse Khan as a Qom (except the late, great Kader Khan - who has said convincingly of his Kakar ancestry).
          Last edited by torkham; 01-10-2019, 05:55 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post
            It seems like any Indian/Punjabi with “Khan” as his surname assumes he must have Pashtun ancestry. Does anyone know how this association started? Why has the Turkic association seemingly disappeared, and for that matter, why does it seem to be much less common among Turks than it is Indics and Paki Pashtuns?
            Indic people have a lot more interaction with the last name "Khan" from Pashtuns than Turks so they started associating it with us more. Turkic people and Indics who claim Turkic ancestry use "Beg" more often nowadays.

            Also, why is that last name so common among Pakistani Pashtuns? A last name isn’t very useful when like 90% of the people in a region all use the same exact one.
            It's only really common as a last name in detribalized areas such as the Peshawar valley(except perhaps Nowshera) and most of the Malakand division, and even in those areas there are many people who use the name of their village, area, tribe, or a normal name as a last name. In the rest of Pakistani Pakhtunkhwa where the tribal system is still more or less intact most people prefer tribal last names and Khan is mainly used as a middle name.
            Originally posted by Kaushika

            majority of Hilly Rajputs are the product of these cross breeding and want to disassociate with their past. rajputs with rajwadi surnames consider themeselves superior but those native kings who look darker gets mocked as "gola" (mix breed, son of rakhile) so they actually invite light skinned rajputs and kshatriya tribes from Jammu region such as jamwals to sleep with their women so that their wives can give birth to pure white looking Native Child.

            Comment


            • #7
              Afghans making up last names is a new phenomena. Khan used to be a title,and then it became a compliment or flattery.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Samandri View Post
                Your kings:-

                Amir Dost Muhammad Khan
                Amir Sher Ali Khan
                Amir Yaqub Khan
                Amir Abdur Rahman Khan
                Amir Habibullah Khan
                King Amanullah Khan

                Cabinet of King Zahir Shah in 1933:-

                1- Sardar Muhammad Hashim Khan (Premier)
                2- Sardar Shah Mahmud Ghazi (Minister of War)
                3- Muhammad Gul Khan (Minister of interior)
                4- Faiz Muhammad Khan (Minister of Foriegn Affairs)
                5- Fazal Muhammad Khan (Minister for Justice)
                6- Ahmad Ali Khan (Minister for education)
                7- Mirza Muhammad Khan (Minister for Commerce)
                8- Allah Nawaz Khan (Minister for Public works)

                The real question is, why Afghanistani Pashtuns stopped using Khan?
                The answer to your question lies in your post

                Comment


                • #9
                  Khan is either title (in case of Khan Khels of tribes) or part of name (in case of masses). When we say "They are Khans" (do khananan di), we are talking about Khan Khel family of a tribe.

                  I was not paying attention but it seems Khushal has western/christian naming system in his mind (He is an Americanay after all). The naming system of westerns , with which you people are accustomed to, is not followed in our regions. Dost Muhammad Khan Mohamad, to be precise there is no forename and surname in it. Mohmand is tribal name, not surname. Tribal name can be Mohamand or sub-tribe like Dawezai or Bamezai etc.

                  There is one big difference between Pashtuns and Indians. Pashtun females do no have Khan in their names while Indian females have Khan as surname.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We all agree that Khan is Turko-Mongol nomenclature. Pashtuns of medieval Roh/Pakhtunkhwa adopted it, probably under Timurid rule but we have no concrete information. But Afghanistanis and pseudo-Afghanistanis (i.e Western diaspora) seem to argue that Pashtuns of present-day Afghanistan never adopted it and Khan in the names of Pakistani Pashtuns is relatively recent Desi influence from India.

                    I have dozens of sources written between 1500 and 1700 which will dispel this delusion of Afghanistanis but i will just go with the earliest one, the Baburnama.

                    1- "Bu Khan" is name of one of the chiefs of Dilazak Afghans of Peshawar valley (Baburnama, eng trans by A.Beveridge, p-409)

                    2- "Langar Khan Niyazi" meets Babur in near Peshawar (ibid, p-412)

                    2- "Sher Khan Tarklani", an Afghan from Laghmanat, hosts Babur (ibid, p-424)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by khushal View Post
                      Afghans making up last names is a new phenomena. Khan used to be a title,and then it became a compliment or flattery.
                      Actually this surname phenomena is quite modern thing. In Iran people did not have surnames so during the Pahlevi dynasty people were encouraged to adopt one. I know Iranian with amazing surnames such as "Rastgoo", "Pourgoli" or "Parwari". I even know a family called "Shotor" (camel) lol

                      In Afghanistan something similar happened. My own family did not have any surname until four or five decades ago. Before that we were just called "Khanawade Khwaja" or "Khwajazadeha": Khwaja´s family. We claim to be heirs of Khwaja Abdullah Ansari, Herat´s patron saint.

                      Even when you look at some of the greatest pre nation state regional great poets, scholars or warriors they did not have any surnames. They just adopted their father´s job, their fathers name or the place they were born as surnames: Omar Khayyam (tent maker), Attari (Perfume maker or perfume seller), Rumi (Roman), Khwarezmi (Khwarezmian), Ibn Sina (son of Sina, his father was a Shia Ismaeli btw), and so on.

                      Even Arabs were like this. I have a friend from Syria and his surname is "Alhalaq" (the barber). I know a Moroccan guy named Bilal Baqqali (grocery) and so on.
                      "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                      I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                      -Ferdowsi.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Firdousi View Post

                        Even Arabs were like this. I have a friend from Syria and his surname is "Alhalaq" (the barber). I know a Moroccan guy named Bilal Baqqali (grocery) and so on.
                        There's also a difference in naming conventions between must'arab and 'asal 'Arabs. typically 'asal 'Arabs have tribal links.

                        Also, as economist Kaushik Basu says: "For a nation to progress it is important for people to spend time on science, mathematics and literature instead of spending time showing that 5,000 years ago their ancestors did science, mathematics and literature."


                        Originally posted by ذو الفقار
                        don’t try to be smart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Most last names throughout the world are either patronymic, territorial, occupational or religious.

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