does anyone else feel this way?

[Azmal]

@Azmul,
The simple question that you need to answer is why is panjabistan so successful in organizing mass rebellion against the afghan gov and how did they attract 5 million afghan refugees in to their country since this is your basic narrative?

I already explain psychology behind your paki mentality to Azazel…Poor Afghan refugee nurtured in your refugee ghettos and indoctrinated in your immoral “madrassahs” to wage your coward nation’s wars against Afghanistan and you call this success? There are Afghans exist who are/were willing to pimp everything to a Pakis for money and power…but what you need to understand is due to communist destruction of both the state and civil society in Afghanistan, there was not a credible INTERNAL power source that could stand up to these Paki-funded proxy armies. The fact is Taliban, and Mujahdeen could care less about Afghan national interest, central power, democracy, Islam, or anything else. They only cared about being an effective proxy for their bosses so they could get more financing. Look what happened to Hekmatyar. As soon as Pakistan dumped his a$$ for the Talibians and his money source ran dry, he started talking about "moderation" and "compromise". When Massod/Rabbani was corned in hole of Punjshir..they start talking about “broad base gov” and “compromise”… THAT was the ultimate source of the civil war. The ground reality is much deferent today..the simple fact Mullah Omar was murdered in Karachi and Taliban were brought to reconciliation proves that Pakis generals have lost hope of success.

[Azmal]

The successes you attribute to Zahir Shah if you can call them that were due to Afghanistan being off the geopolitical radar of the world for the most part. The cold war in those times meant for Afghanistan Russians building the Kabul-Kandahar road and America's failed agricultural project in Helmand, this was all he could even leverage from 2 competing powers. The guy's Uncles ran his government well into Zahir Shah's middle age and when he was overthrown, none of his supports would fight for him. During his extended vacation in Italy he called for a loya jirga once.

Hell of a legacy, this guy.

Did “geopolitics” of Afghanistan have changed after Zahir shah? Helmand valley project was started by Zahir Shah from gov income of food sold to British forces in Burma during World War and Taxes on Qaraqol and Afghan rags export to USA.
“In 1946, an American firm, Morrison Knudsen was hired by Afghan government to build diversion dams, enlarge an irrigation canal and construct roads in the valley.A loan was obtained from export-import bank in 1949 after rapid depletion of Afghanistan exchange reserves build up during war on first Marrison-Knudsen contract. Under a second contract, Morrison-Knudsen built the Arghandab and Kajakai Dams on the Arghandab and Helmand rivers, respective, The dams were completed in 1952.” M. Fry.The Afghan Economy: Money, Finance, and the Critical Constraints to Economic development. 1974 Brill, Leiden, Netherlands.
I admire Zahir shah for 3 reason.
1-Unlike Amanullah he knew his subjects, thus instead of imposing modernity he allow for gradual modernization.
2- Zahir Shah’s honorable commitment to allow an independent commission for writing a Democratic constitution, which sadly was hijacked by leftist when they exclude the Mohammedzais from holding office, hence their first illiberal move against our liberties. Many people would have preferred Daud Khan as Prime Minister, than the other options they were left with. Yet after having dismally failed to win more seats in parliament, the Left decided to take over the government by planning a bloody coup even before their alliance to Daud Khan.
3- Not allowing Afghanistan to be ground for dog fight…but thanks to dumb morons in the PDPA and how they began screwing with the country, the Pakistanis could not believe their lucks. While in the past Pakis lackeys were politically marginalized in the country…the brutality of PDPA had effectively obliged them with the manpower to realize their once unattainable dream--- destruction of Afghan State.

[khushal]

I already explain psychology behind your paki mentality to Azazel…Poor Afghan refugee nurtured in your refugee ghettos and indoctrinated in your immoral “madrassahs” to wage your coward nation’s wars against Afghanistan and you call this success? There are Afghans exist who are/were willing to pimp everything to a Pakis for money and power…but what you need to understand is due to communist destruction of both the state and civil society in Afghanistan, there was not a credible INTERNAL power source that could stand up to these Paki-funded proxy armies. The fact is Taliban, and Mujahdeen could care less about Afghan national interest, central power, democracy, Islam, or anything else. They only cared about being an effective proxy for their bosses so they could get more financing. Look what happened to Hekmatyar. As soon as Pakistan dumped his a$$ for the Talibians and his money source ran dry, he started talking about "moderation" and "compromise". When Massod/Rabbani was corned in hole of Punjshir..they start talking about “broad base gov” and “compromise”… THAT was the ultimate source of the civil war. The ground reality is much deferent today..the simple fact Mullah Omar was murdered in Karachi and Taliban were brought to reconciliation proves that Pakis generals have lost hope of success.

You did not answer the question. You are going off the tangent. The mass rebellions was a direct result of the Afghan gov actions and not some paki majic trick as you state.

Hekmatyar/Masood/Rabani were just spokemen, they did not perform any majic tricks to convince people to rebel. They just hijacked the people's wish of living their life as they wanted. The Taliban was a true peoples movement that terminated the hijackers.

Why is the Afghan gov such a failure that they cant gather their own people for a cause and according to your narrative, the paki gov is successful in gathering afghans against their own gov.

Don't avoid the question.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I think if we just stopped attacking each other, calling each other Paki or saying the other guy is sucking whomever's genitalia we can have a constructive discussion here.

All of you are making valid points in your own ways.

Nice work [MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] [MENTION=1444]Azmal[/MENTION] [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] [MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION]

[Brown Skinned Savage]

wow so much lies and you call yourself a good muslim.

This is actually documented

https://books.google.com/books?id=b_cnkQGrC64C&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=Afghanistan+PDPA+alcohol&source=bl&ots=fl51YBJ49e&sig=dWFIry-Lt4tj9wS9_7-Hf1vVqHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBmoVChMI49nAyK6PxwIViaA-Ch0qxwnC#v=onepage&q=Afghanistan%20PDPA%20alcohol&f=false

You really should read more.

[Khostai]

When 5 million afghans in pakistan and an additional 2 million afghans in iran became refugees, I guess they were running away from flowers the soviets were dropping from their airplanes.

Forcing alcohol on people and telling to bring out the women is typical propaganda that was spread by western rats who never set foot in Afghanistan during the commie era. But I am not going to deny that PDPA did force change but not this bul**** that you are spreading here. Khar saib.

[Khostai]

This is actually documented

https://books.google.com/books?id=b_cnkQGrC64C&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=Afghanistan+PDPA+alcohol&source=bl&ots=fl51YBJ49e&sig=dWFIry-Lt4tj9wS9_7-Hf1vVqHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBmoVChMI49nAyK6PxwIViaA-Ch0qxwnC#v=onepage&q=Afghanistan%20PDPA%20alcohol&f=false

You really should read more.

Bul**** propaganda book made by westerners, I taught you did not belive in what western people write about other cultures. But for this you do belive? And by the way where is it saying that PDPA asked to bring out women in public and what not, and forcing people to drink alcohol is the bigest bul**** I have ever heard that deluted Islamist suporters has come up with. I know you are the masters of lies and decit, but I would have never taught you will even make this dum stories and even belive in it.

[HalloIsBack]

Bul**** propaganda book made by westerners, I taught you did not belive in what western people write about other cultures. But for this you do belive? And by the way where is it saying that PDPA asked to bring out women in public and what not, and forcing people to drink alcohol is the bigest bul**** I have ever heard that deluted Islamist suporters has come up with. I know you are the masters of lies and decit, but I would have never taught you will even make this dum stories and even belive in it.

alcohol is selling in kabul and there are no commie now in afg
this thread was opened by our kushan princess

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Bul**** propaganda book made by westerners, I taught you did not belive in what western people write about other cultures. But for this you do belive? And by the way where is it saying that PDPA asked to bring out women in public and what not, and forcing people to drink alcohol is the bigest bul**** I have ever heard that deluted Islamist suporters has come up with. I know you are the masters of lies and decit, but I would have never taught you will even make this dum stories and even belive in it.

Everything you believe is an imitation of Mainstream WESTERN IDEOLOGY, and now you're saying it's all Western propaganda.nThere's NO reason why they'd LIE about Promoting Alcohol pushing Since Western Values glorify alcohol and want to promote it to other cultures. What a pathetic excuse, I thought you always defend the West and didn't believe in blaming the West. What a hypocrite.

[Khostai]

Everything you believe is an imitation of Mainstream WESTERN IDEOLOGY, and now you're saying it's all Western propaganda.nThere's NO reason why they'd LIE about Promoting Alcohol pushing Since Western Values glorify alcohol and want to promote it to other cultures. What a pathetic excuse, I thought you always defend the West and didn't believe in blaming the West. What a hypocrite.

The only hypocrite here is you, always discarding western books on other cultures as colonial brainwashing, but suddenly this book is the pure truth and we all should belive in it just becuase you belive in it.
This book is nothing more than the same propoganda that was spread by westerners and your wahabi father of arabia in middel east to stop the influence of communism in asia.

But a brain dead zombie like you who not so long ago cheered for stoning, called his own mother a traithor and a ***** becuase she married a man outside her ethnic group, this must be the truth. Becuase you were lied and brainwashed from your chiledhood so much that you are now became a confused individual that even nearing his 40s still chnages his ideologies and sides like a baby that changed its favourote toy.

[Khostai]

alcohol is selling in kabul and there are no commie now in afg
this thread was opened by our kushan princess

guess what?? before the commies alcohol was pretty common in Kabul, Afghanistan even produced its own whine lol. This dumb asses think that before the commies Afghanistan was some pure Islamic shariah state :P. Where alcohol, drugs and cigaretes were never heard by anyone. This people really need reality check and some good history lessons.

But I can not blame this fools who were all born in the west or came here as a small baby, non of them have ever been back, I doubt even if this Yemeni camel is recognised by his father side in Afghanistan, I think that is the reason he never visited Afghanistan, he has no plac to go there. He and Khushal princess and that janitor BA need to visit Afghanistan. To see how Afghhanistan is under their preciuous mudjahids who brought Islam lol.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

The only hypocrite here is you, always discarding western books on other cultures as colonial brainwashing, but suddenly this book is the pure truth and we all should belive in it just becuase you belive in it.
This book is nothing more than the same propoganda that was spread by westerners and your wahabi father of arabia in middel east to stop the influence of communism in asia.

But a brain dead zombie like you who not so long ago cheered for stoning, called his own mother a traithor and a ***** becuase she married a man outside her ethnic group, this must be the truth. Becuase you were lied and brainwashed from your chiledhood so much that you are now became a confused individual that even nearing his 40s still chnages his ideologies and sides like a baby that changed its favourote toy.

It's you that always thinks White Ideology is always more civilized and celebrated and believe everything they say as being Valid Knowledge. Now when they write something that exposes that you're wrong, you say it's propaganda. You even have to lie and make things up about me that I never ssaid because you can't handle Reality. It shows how mentally colonized you are. This is the epitome of hypocrisy.




......................

Ok here's my real response,, I was just making fun of your Diversion Tactic that you always use when you're refuted with evidence and you start making personal attacks to avoid the Logical errors of your arguments. I have "never" said anything you claim I have, I use an anaytical method, I don't deny something because it is Western nor do I validate something because it is Eastern.

I use the approach of Predictive Outcome; who has A Vested Political Interest in Lying. This Book was written by a Westerner and the Westerner is talking about a an atrocity, done by people who were serving and promoting the interests of OTHER Westerners.

there's absolutely NO logical reason for them to lie, thereby this is not likely to be propaganda and I don't know where you pulled this nonsense you made up about my mother being a traitor from. I DARE you to find a quote that proves this.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

guess what?? before the commies alcohol was pretty common in Kabul, Afghanistan even produced its own whine lol. lol.

Proof?

[Khostai]

It's you that always thinks White Ideology is always more civilized and celebrated and believe everything they say as being Valid Knowledge. Now when they write something that exposes that you're wrong, you say it's propaganda. You even have to lie and make things up about me that I never ssaid because you can't handle Reality. It shows how mentally colonized you are. This is the epitome of hypocrisy.




......................

Ok here's my real response,, I was just making fun of your Diversion Tactic that you always use when you're refuted with evidence and you start making personal attacks to avoid the Logical errors of your arguments. I have "never" said anything you claim I have, I use an anaytical method, I don't deny something because it is Western nor do I validate something because it is Eastern.

I use the approach of Predictive Outcome; who has A Vested Political Interest in Lying. This Book was written by a Westerner and the Westerner is talking about a an atrocity, done by people who were serving and promoting the interests of OTHER Westerners.

there's absolutely NO logical reason for them to lie, thereby this is not likely to be propaganda and I don't know where you pulled this nonsense you made up about my mother being a traitor from. I DARE you to find a quote that proves this.

I stoped taking you and your apes sirious, so I will not waste my time by quating sources and what not, becuase I know you semi iliterate will not even look at it. So yemeni camel go back to yemen, you are not welcome here.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

guess what?? before the commies alcohol was pretty common in Kabul, Afghanistan even produced its own whine lol. This dumb asses think that before the commies Afghanistan was some pure Islamic shariah state :P. Where alcohol, drugs and cigaretes were never heard by anyone. This people really need reality check and some good history lessons.

But I can not blame this fools who were all born in the west or came here as a small baby, non of them have ever been back, I doubt even if this Yemeni camel is recognised by his father side in Afghanistan, I

You're running to ImaJaw for support because you're getting scared and panicky because you just got caught lying.

You can make personal attacks, But Ad-Hominem is a Logical Fallacy and demonstrates that you're incapable of disproving or reufting anything we say.

It shows that your beliefs are weaker and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

By the way, stop making stuff up, unless you have "quotes" to prove that I said them.