Artisan people (kammi, kameen) versus tribal people

[tilla_jogian]

Kammi is offensive. It is a fasi word meaning "less" as if one human has less value than another. You indic people are really fvcked up in the head.

you are more dumb then expected. Kammi mean someone who work. Kam mean work and kammi mean someone who work. Fail

[Kushan Prince]

Tribal people are tribal not by choice but of necessity. It has to do with their environment. The rough geography of the tribal belt makes it necessary for people to organize around kinfolk for protection. Governments(Moghul, afghan, brits, soviets then paki, and even NATO) have tried to bring some law to the area but it is futile since it is very expensive to station troops and police and keep them supplied. It is natural and more feasible for the people themselves to govern themselves as they see fit in their own way.
What is expected to happen is that the people that live in the tribal belt will live in war like state since the people would try to fight over limited resources(water and arable land) indefinitely.



One is not better than the other. They depend on each other. We call the artisan people in our area Khalifagon which is a very respectable term. Words like Kammi are extremely offensive and as I can see from comments on this Forum, people insulting each others families and what not is evident that urban folk have no manners and mostly have low self esteem about their life and families since they need to offend other's families to feel good about their own family.

That's not true. People choose to be tribal according to their own will, not because of the environment. Tajiks and Pamiri people who live around a rough mountainous landscape like Pashtuns do not have tribes yet people like Scotts/Irishmen and Native Americans who's land is more subtile for farming and not as treacherous organize themselves by tribes and clans. Our land has tons of rivers so fighting over water was not a necessity since Pashtun tribes settled purposely near rivers for recourses.

[khushal]

That's not true. People choose to be tribal according to their own will, not because of the environment. Tajiks and Pamiri people who live around a rough mountainous landscape like Pashtuns do not have tribes yet people like Scotts/Irishmen and Native Americans who's land is more subtile for farming and not as treacherous organize themselves by tribes and clans. Our land has tons of rivers so fighting over water was not a necessity since Pashtun tribes settled purposely near rivers for recourses.

Pamirir people live in tribal structures. TAjiks mostly live on arable lands.

What are you talking about. Scotts and Irish are not tribal. you make no sense.

Native americans that have moved to urban centers have mostly detribalized.

[Kushan Prince]

Pamirir people live in tribal structures. TAjiks mostly live on arable lands.

What are you talking about. Scotts and Irish are not tribal. you make no sense.

Native americans that have moved to urban centers have mostly detribalized.

Pamiri's do not have tribes, and i am talking about Tajiks from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. North America is all grass land and Natives were originally hunter gathers.

Scotts and Irishmen historically organized themselves by clans with each clan having its own coat of arms.

[khushal]

Pamiri's do not have tribes, and i am talking about Tajiks from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. North America is all grass land and Natives were originally hunter gathers.

Scotts and Irishmen historically organized themselves by clans with each clan having its own coat of arms.

Kushan,
everyone at one time were hunters/gathers and tribes. The point is they evolved and the pashtuns have not.

Ask yourself why the pashtuns in settled areas like the peshawar valley, mardan, jalalabad have mostly detribalized- they really dont care about tribal affiliation but the ones in FATA and Paktia still live in tribal structures. I am talking about the way they live and not about some guy in mardan that has a last name yusephzai and lives like any other person in any other urban center. name alone does not make people tribal. It has to be about the life the way people relate to one another.

and pamir are tribal:

http://www.rferl.org/content/kyrgyzstan-uluu-pamir-turkey/25276816.html

[Kushan Prince]

Kushan,
everyone at one time were hunters/gathers and tribes. The point is they evolved and the pashtuns have not.

That was long before people organzied themsleves into ethnic groups and tribes. Gulf Arabs are developed yet still hold on dearly to being tribal.

Ask yourself why the pashtuns in settled areas like the peshawar valley, mardan, jalalabad have mostly detribalized- they really dont care about tribal affiliation but the ones in FATA and Paktia still live in tribal structures. I am talking about the way they live and not about some guy in mardan that has a last name yusephzai and lives like any other person in any other urban center. name alone does not make people tribal. It has to be about the life the way people relate to one another.

Peshawar valley is not entirely Pashtun but also has tons of Hindokwans, sikhs and Punjabis. People in Jalalabad are still tribal and you have to really define "Tribalism" because people have different opinions on this subject. Pashtuns in settled and Urban areas will still more then likely look for somebody of the same tribe for marriage. We will also have to know why Loya Jirgas are held in capitals as well.

and pamir are tribal:
http://www.rferl.org/content/kyrgyzs.../25276816.html

Those are Krygz nomads not Pamiris. By Pamiris, i meant speakers of the eastern iranian languages such as Wakhi, Yaghnobi etc.

[khushal]

oops, I gave you the wrong link:
here you go:

https://books.google.com/books?id=jwNeAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA256&dq=pamiri+tribes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lWU-VfP2L8_jsASQsIHABg&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=pamiri%20tribes&f=false

[Toramana]

Tribal people are tribal not by choice but of necessity. It has to do with their environment. The rough geography of the tribal belt makes it necessary for people to organize around kinfolk for protection. Governments(Moghul, afghan, brits, soviets then paki, and even NATO) have tried to bring some law to the area but it is futile since it is very expensive to station troops and police and keep them supplied. It is natural and more feasible for the people themselves to govern themselves as they see fit in their own way.
What is expected to happen is that the people that live in the tribal belt will live in war like state since the people would try to fight over limited resources(water and arable land) indefinitely.

That is the point. Societies are structured by ecological conditions and productive means and skills of its populations. It is not possible to sustain a tribal or agrarian way of life in an industrialized urban society. Families, extended families, clans, and tribes split up loosing their political relevance. Individuals start earning themselves and want to make their own decisions.

[Toramana]

Kammi is offensive. It is a fasi word meaning "less" as if one human has less value than another. You indic people are really fvcked up in the head.

I was an admirer of Indian culture sometime back (and still I like some aspects of it) until I watched a few documentaries on the Indian caste system, which revealed things that I found so disgusting. So much misery so much de-humanization just because the other guy has a different approach to earning livelihood.

Initially, I thought the Sikh religion promotes equality and thus had respect for Sikhs. Then I found Sikh society is better by a few degrees only. Pakistani Punjab seems to be a replica of the Eastern Punjab with the same ugly caste system at least in villages.

I think this kind of culture exists in its ugliest form in South Asia only.

[tilla_jogian]

I was an admirer of Indian culture sometime back (and still I like some aspects of it) until I watched a few documentaries on the Indian caste system, which revealed things that I found so disgusting. So much misery so much de-humanization just because the other guy has a different approach to earning livelihood.

Initially, I thought the Sikh religion promotes equality and thus had respect for Sikhs. Then I found Sikh society is better by a few degrees only. Pakistani Punjab seems to be a replica of the Eastern Punjab with the same ugly caste system at least in villages.

I think this kind of culture exists in its ugliest form in South Asia only.

Caste system is the reason you can never be real pathan

[Toramana]

Caste system is the reason you can never be real pathan

Mr. Jogian I expected you to retort that way, lol. And yes I am not a Pathan; I am a real, highly respectable Pashtun.

[tilla_jogian]

Mr. Jogian I expected you to retort that way, lol. And yes I am not a Pathan; I am a real, highly respectable Pashtun.

lol you are just delusional.