Muslims and mustache

[khushal]

the zoroastians had beards. The ancient Persians, Greeks had beards. just look at their art.

It does not say "Be different from the polytheists SO grow your beards and shorten your moustaches." It says AND. which has a different meaning.

[randolph85]

i believe the greeks were clean shaven back in the day, at least their soldiers. ancient persian soldiers used to sport mustaches, i don't know about in the prophets time though.

[کیش]

the zoroastians had beards. The ancient Persians, Greeks had beards. just look at their art.

It does not say "Be different from the polytheists SO grow your beards and shorten your moustaches." It says AND. which has a different meaning.

you are purposely avoiding the avoiding polytheistics part" and focused on the zoroastorian.

are you going against the Prophets words, just for the sake of ugly moustaches?

[khushal]

the mecedons introduced clean shaven faces, but the ancient greeks did sport beards:

Ancient Greece


A coin depicting a cleanly shaven Alexander the Great.


The ancient Greeks regarded the beard as a badge or sign of virility; in the Homeric epics it had almost sanctified significance, so that a common form of entreaty was to touch the beard of the person addressed.[16] It was only shaven as a sign of mourning, though in this case it was instead often left untrimmed. A smooth face was regarded as a sign of effeminacy.[17] The Spartans punished cowards by shaving off a portion of their beards. From the earliest times, however, the shaving of the upper lip was not uncommon. Greek beards were also frequently curled with tongs.


Ancient Macedon
In the time of Alexander the Great the custom of smooth shaving was introduced.[18] Reportedly, Alexander ordered his soldiers to be clean-shaven, fearing that their beards would serve as handles for their enemies to grab and to hold the soldier as he was killed. The practice of shaving spread from the Macedonians, whose kings are represented on coins, etc. with smooth faces, throughout the whole known world of the Macedonian Empire. Laws were passed against it, without effect, at Rhodes and Byzantium; and even Aristotle conformed to the new custom,[19] unlike the other philosophers, who retained the beard as a badge of their profession. A man with a beard after the Macedonian period implied a philosopher,[20] and there are many allusions to this custom of the later philosophers in such proverbs as: "The beard does not make the sage."[21]

notice the bold in red

[khushal]

you are purposely avoiding the avoiding polytheistics part" and focused on the zoroastorian.

are you going against the Prophets words, just for the sake of ugly moustaches?

no id did not. I specifically mentioned the quote about polytheists. Im not going against the prophets words but one should investigate what he means by those words. It does not make sense that he meant what you are referring to since those people of his time also sported beards.

also weren't the arabs of his time also polytheists and all of them sported beards.

[randolph85]

this is from bukhari

Narrated Nafi': Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, 'Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short.' Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is)."

[کیش]

[QUOTE=khushal;734495]no id did not. I specifically mentioned the quote about polytheists. Im not going against the prophets words but one should investigate what he means by those words. It does not make sense that he meant what you are referring to since those people of his time also sported beards.

also weren't the arabs of his time also polytheists and all of them sported beards.[/QUOTE]

that is why the prophet said

be different from the polytheist: grow your beard and then trim off the moustache.

it's quite clear.

[Kushan Prince]

I have a hard time believing a hadith that practically says "moustaches are haram." Its just facial hair and you don't choose where it grows. Like Khushal said, the ancient persians had long beards just by looking at their artwork, statues on walls and paintings. Also sikhs grow long beards for religious purposes, does that make them Muslim or does it make it a muslim practise?

I don't think so. Now i know in islam it says growing beards are optional but it doesn't say that moustaches are not allowed while beards are.

[کیش]

I have a hard time believing a hadith that practically says "moustaches are haram." Its just facial hair and you don't choose where it grows. Like Khushal said, the ancient persians had long beards just by looking at their artwork, statues on walls and paintings. Also sikhs grow long beards for religious purposes, does that make them Muslim or does it make it a muslim practise?

I don't think so. Now i know in islam it says growing beards are optional but it doesn't say that moustaches are not allowed while beards are.

yea it does so clearly in that hadith!! your basing this rule on your emotional biases.

ancient Persians were Kafirs, hence "be different part

Sikhs also grow long beards alongside their moustaches. muslims are the only ones who grow their beard and shave their moustaches

[randolph85]

I have a hard time believing a hadith that practically says "moustaches are haram." Its just facial hair and you don't choose where it grows. Like Khushal said, the ancient persians had long beards just by looking at their artwork, statues on walls and paintings. Also sikhs grow long beards for religious purposes, does that make them Muslim or does it make it a muslim practise?

I don't think so.

islam doesn't say its haram but that it is a physical trait embraced by the non believers or that is associated with them, therefore we must not follow them by looking like them. whether this means just the non believers of arabia or the known world abroad is irrelevant, the hadith say that a trimmed mustache must of been a trait of the early muslims therefore we must emulate them.

sikhs did not exist back then and as we know, worldwide the beard is associated with muslims more than any other people. the mustache is associated with secularism and anti islamic ideals as evidenced by the people who sported them throughout the last 100 years.

[khushal]

[QUOTE=کیش;734497]

no id did not. I specifically mentioned the quote about polytheists. Im not going against the prophets words but one should investigate what he means by those words. It does not make sense that he meant what you are referring to since those people of his time also sported beards.

also weren't the arabs of his time also polytheists and all of them sported beards.[/QUOTE]

that is why the prophet said

be different from the polytheist: grow your beard and then trim off the moustache.

it's quite clear.

are you saying that the polytheists arabs of his time did not have beards?

The romans during that time were clean shaven but they were Christian, were they considered polytheists?

[Kushan Prince]

yea it does so clearly in that hadith!! your basing this rule on your emotional biases.

ancient Persians were Kafirs, hence "be different part

Sikhs also grow long beards alongside their moustaches. muslims are the only ones who grow their beard and shave their moustaches

There are some hardcore hindus out there that rock beards because its supposed to make them look wise. And islam does not say to shave moustaches, all it says is to TRIM it. Big difference.

Any who, i don't think this hadith is really authentic.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

this is from bukhari

Narrated Nafi': Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, 'Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short.' Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is)."

Dear Believer,

A gift to supplement the hadith above in case you have not already come across this (though you may have already encountered it). I found this a curious matter and wondered if it was in line with history:

Abu Hurayrah "reported that the ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisra, sent two envoys to the Messenger !. When they came into his presence,he noticed that they had shaved their beards and let their moustaches grow big. Hating their ugly appearance, he turned his face away and said, “Woe be to you, who told you to do so?” They replied: “Our lord (Kisra) did!” The Messenger ! responded: “But my Lord, exalted and glorified be He, has commanded me to spare my beard and trim my moustaches.” [Recorded by Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, Ibn Sa’d, and Ibn Bishran. Verified to be hasan (good) by al-Albani (Fiqh us-Sirah by al-Ghazali p. 359)]

This source on ancient Zoroastrianism mentions the following:

https://archive.org/details/zoroastriancivi00dhalgoog

On page 23 regarding the habits of the ancient zoroastrians:

"The priests always grew heavy beards, but the laity went with shaved face or trimmed beard."

The Khosrau Parviz dinar (and his son Kavadh) of the era generally shows the eventually murdered king with a moustache that is long relative to his beard.

I think the literal aspect of the hadith deserves to be respected, at the same time the symbolic aspect of asserting the Prophetic identity is even more powerful.

[کیش]

[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION] [MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION]

so lets try it again, from the Prophet's own words

on the authority of Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, from the Prophet (Salallahou ‘aleyhi wa salam), who said: “Be different from the polytheists, and grow your beards and shorten your moustaches” (Al-Bukhari no. 5892 and Muslim no. 259. Muslim no. 260).

these are not my words but the Prophets. First you didn't believe he said that, and now your getting emotional for some strange reason and are circling around the statement by saying so and so people had/had not moustaches.

it doesn't matter. Muslims should grow their beards, and shorten their moustaches. Kafirs shave their beards and leave their moustaches,

these are the prophets words, not mines. you are also able to do whatever you want to do.

[khushal]

Kaish, your emotional blackmail tactics are good but I never said I don't believe it. Go back and read what I said.