How valid are the opinions of "Western born and raised" Pashtuns on this forum?

[El Camello]

I have very little experience with Pashtuns in Pakistan. But the ones I know, the urban Pashtuns, the pathan type....well, they are like really annoying. But at least, they are religious to a certain extent.

Unlike Urbanized Pashtuns from Afghanistan. Oh no. They are really something else. They mock and ridicule religiosity. They associate piety with being brainwashed by Pakistani ISI.

Usually they can barely speak Pashto and they don't know how to count in Pashto. Their usage of excessive Farsi is so funny even Tajiks make fun of them.

I have noticed that Tajiks have less respect for a Persianized Pashtun than for a proper villager. The villager sort of intimidates Tajiks. But the " wanna be a tajik " type is seen as someone they can mess with.

Often times you see those urbanized Pashtuns who also happen to be nationalists and secularists arguing on behalf of Pashtuns with everybody. But failing to dress like a Pashtun. ( extremely tight pants, dirty-shaven and still claiming to be Pashtun)

I haven't met any such Afghans. I have only met poor Afghan Pashtuns.

They were pretty much the same as the poor Paki ones, except they spoke better Pashto.

They were mainly Paktiawals and others who were refugees, laborers and kids in madrassa.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

i'm parisian.

Je suis de paktia

are where bare legged women in Paktia carrying Colts?

[general]

are where bare legged women in Paktia carrying Colts?

pervert.

[El Camello]

Michin Khel, Shehbaz and a few others are actually posting from Pakistan, so their opinions are very real to me.

[Badlun]

t the " wanna be a tajik " type is seen as someone they can mess with.

Often times you see those urbanized Pashtuns who also happen to be nationalists and secularists arguing on behalf of Pashtuns with everybody. But failing to dress like a Pashtun. ( extremely tight pants, dirty-shaven and still claiming to be Pashtun)

So Pashtunwali is only in dress and shave? What a narrow spectrum!

[Badlun]

I have lived in pure Pashtun areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan and have seen Pashtun life from very close angel. I have lived for years in Pashtun villages. What astonishes me the identification of Pashtuns with Islam.
No doubt Pashtuns are Muslims but this is only by religion. They have their own social and cultural code called Pashtunwali.

Pashtuns were not Muslims 1400 years back but they were Pashtuns. Before 1979 they were also not Islamists or terrorists.

Terrorism has been concentrated in Pashtun areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, besides the Terrorism in Iraq, Srilanka, Colombia and few other places in the world. Pashtun areas present the worst scene. In Afghanistan 100 % suicide bombers and fighters against the Afghan and other forces are Pashtuns. In Pakistan they are almost 80%. Majority are Pashtun boys and girls too.

Why this is so? Its mostly because of the lethal combination of Pashtunwali and wahabi deobandi extremist Islam. Two fires have been merged into a gigantic flame.

Pashtuns being sincere , simple, independent minded people and wahabi teachings of promulgation of sharia without state make a very dangerous mixture and threat to Afghanistan, Pakistan and the world at large.

I know that Terrorism is a multidimensional phenomenon. The lethal combination of Pashtunwali and extremist Islam is the major cause of terrorism -not the only cause - army , intelligence agencies , new world order, new great game, poverty, ignorance , illiteracy, misunderstanding of religious teachings , ethnicity, separatism, nationalism, sense of deprivation, aggravation, oppression ,economic or cultural disadvantage, non democracy, wrong globalization ,inferiority complex, etc can be other reasons.

For me in our context Pashtunwali+extremist Islam are the main reason of terrorism , suicide bombings etc.

Why???????? because its happening there , in Pashtun areas physically practically no where else ,,,,,,I personally know that these are Pashtuns who explode themselves , very few from other races in Pakistan and Afghanistan ,,in Iraq yes they are Arabs etc , in Srilanka Tamils .

You might have heard the story that one judge arrested the man who was robbed instead of arresting the thief ,,,because the man provided the opportunity of theft to the thief ,,,,,,,,This is we Pashtuns who let others to play with us ,we are susceptible ,,,,,,the fault lies with us that Arabs and Americans and Panjabis etc play with us ..Why we let them to do so ...Why they don't do it with others why with us only ,,,,,,,,,,

We have to dismantle the lethal combination of extremist Islam and Pashtunwali ,,,,,,,,,otherwise Pashtuns will suffer further and will be victimized.

Pashtuns as a whole are not extremists .I use the word extremist for Islamists not for Pashtuns and for me the mixture of Pakhtunwali and extremist Islam is lethal not Pashtunwali separately or Islam as a religion separately. .

When Islam in the shape of extremism, fundamentalism, obscurantism , Puritanism , fanaticism, in-moderation, zealotry, activism, intemperance, radicalism without moderation is merged with the innocence, sincerity , hospitality, honesty , genuineness, earnestness, naturalness, unexpectedness, authenticity and candor of Pashtuns , then it becomes dangerous.

Here one may note that for me Pashtunwali is positive , extremist Islam is negative , Pashtunwali is a fertile soil for the weeds of extremist Islam where it flourishes with vigor.

The more Pashtuns are less religious extremists , lesser will be the chances of terrorism. I always suggest that the best way to combat terrorism in Pashtun areas is to make the Pashtuns aware of their Pakhtunwali and to create distance between Pashtuns and extremist Islam or any ideology because Pashtuns are simple . sometimes simpleton or even stupid and are easily deceived and cheated by others

I have first hand experience of the observing extremist Islam in Pashtuns and have enough knowledge of ground reality. The solution is to make Pashtuns more practicing Pashtuns and limit the religion only to metaphysical beliefs , worship and a kind of morality not interfering in social, political and other aspects of life.

[Khostai]

Shamalwar aren't you from Kabul, is that the reason that you call yourself Khororsani? Becuase you are persianised?
Peopel here talk about Pashtuns who are persianised, but in reality most of them are just westernised, its not in Tajik or persian culture to make fun of religion, or walking in jeans and suits this is western culture, or you gona claim that the suit and jeans are Persian :P.

[Shabi Khel]

Anyone who has at least some common sense will know that the majority of users on this forum, whether they are of Pashtun descent or not, are currently living outside of the traditional Pashtun homeland of AfPak.

There are hardly any users here who post from Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Generally, only such people who live in Pashtun land can comment on the ground realites, current situation, etc. but here we have a whole array of self-proclaimed teenage Pashtun experts who don't know anything about Pashtun langauge, customs, tribes, culture, etc. let alone having actually visited a Pashtun land. How can such people possibly think they know about Pashtuns when the only encounter with Pashtuns they have ever had was in the West?

There are indeed a few members who used to live in Afghanistan or Pakistan, but now are in Western countries. The opinions of these people can be taken into consideration as they have previously lived in Pashtun lands, but there are even more users of PF who have never been to both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Everyone know that this forum does not represent the views of the average illiterate, poor Pashtun living in AfPak, but the views expressed on this forum are mostly those of the Pashtun diaspora, whom I think should be considered a separate community just like how the Japanese and the Japanese-Americans, for example, are both different in terms of culture, language, dress, etc. So this forum is mainly used by the Pashtun diaspora, such as Pashtun-Americans, British Pashtuns, Canadian Pashtuns, Dutch Pashtuns, etc.

How can we take seriously the views of such individuals when they have no knowledge, experience or contact with actual Pashtun residents of Afghanistan or Pakistan?

I am not a Pashtun but I have lived amongst them.

You have good point and insight here. I live 6-8 months of the year in Pakistan and the rest in the west. I'm not a computer person really but for instance when
I'm in Pakistan I almost never use computers for one reason or another. I have noticed though that the most active Internet personalities are always western based. I could be wrong but that's my observation so far.
So generally you will mostly find diaspora almost anywhere on the Internet except Facebook. Do their opinions count? They certainly count but it should also be taken into consideration that most of these people have very different experiences from the man who never left his village. Who's view should be given the most weight? Almost always the villager.

[Shabi Khel]

blah blah blah blah blah.

You have a lot of nerve calling that brother persianized. But it probably is little more than testament to your own intellectual defectiveness. Stick to things you understand: nationalism, pseudo-Marxism, being a mental midget and losing both in this life and the one to come.

[Mujib]

What exactly does it mean to be Persianized? Speaking Farsi?

[ډګروال]

western born or raised afghans opinion is vital unless they are biased towards Afghans and Afghanistan and are willing to sacrifice Afghan interests for the interests of their new homeland.Like some over here jump in joy how india is going to exploit Afghan mineral resources or how American car manufacturers are taking over and also the same guys support deislamisation and deAfghanisation of Afghan society. Offcourse if you say a word about their country(for example America) than they become really pissed off and start bashing Afghanistan and Pashtuns.


i think from outside we can get a clearer picture since we have mass media(even though much of it is bs) and when we dig deep into it we come to the same conclusion as a villager somewhere in a remote corner of Afghanistan. While the fifth columners are trying their best to opppres the opinion of those villagers and those Afghans in the diaspora who care about Afghanistan and defend the wil of Afghan people and defend Afghan interests such as culture,mineral resources,independence,etc.

[Khostai]

I know you are dum, you don't have to remind me and others about it constantley.

[Khostai]

What exactly does it mean to be Persianized? Speaking Farsi?

They don't know what persian culture is. When they see Pashtuns who act difrent than the stereotype of PAshtuns that they have in there head, they call him persianised.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Shamalwar aren't you from Kabul, is that the reason that you call yourself Khororsani? Becuase you are persianised?
Peopel here talk about Pashtuns who are persianised, but in reality most of them are just westernised, its not in Tajik or persian culture to make fun of religion, or walking in jeans and suits this is western culture, or you gona claim that the suit and jeans are Persian :P.

We'll see if we both go to Dragai, in Tanai, and you say what you believe and I say what I believe and we'll see which one of us will end up impaled in the local bazar.

[Tiger Khan]

Persionized

Anyone who speaks farsi instead of pashto is persianized. SImilarly in pakistan, if a person cant speak pashto, he can claim to be a pathan, but you are not obliged to consider him that. SOrry but this is how it is. In pakistan you have kasuries, burkies, Kakazais, Durrani, Niazies, Jadoon, Tareens etc who speak other languages, even if we pathans consider them pashtuns other ethnic groups dont consider them pathans.