Freedom of rights conversation

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Aria may come out with better response to these important questions but here I would like to share my take on these issues.
1. Presence of Bin Laden in Afghanistan and his alliance with Taliban is totally different story as compared to presence of hidden Al Qaida in Pakistan. Pakistani forces are continuously fighting against terrorists and its a reality that they have lost thousands of lives in this fight. Pakistan is a democratic country and again this is a reality that their government has recently completed its full tenure and now they will have their regular elections on 11 May 2013. Pakistan is front line ally of US in the fight against terror and how US can attack its ally. It will be the same if US attacks Karzai who is a similar ally. Pakistan do have problems like sectariaisnm and presence of Taliban and its support mainly by Pashtuns but a parallel fight is going on with political forces like ANP and PPP as well as by the half million fully trained armed forces of Pakistan. Pakistan not at all fulfills the criteria as that of Afghanistan in Taliban time.

2. US support to Shah of Iran, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Bautista of Cuba etc can be simply justified by the notion of national interest at that time. A stance in past may seem a mistake today but context of events and decisions is of paramount importance. In wars and international politics one does not always win. One may lose also. One can create Frankenstein monsters and may commit mistakes but having a policy for example for promoting terrorism globally is one thing and supporting a dictator at one juncture of time is another thing. Al Qaida has the manifesto of terrorism or radical Islam while US always stands for democracy, human rights and development but may have some exceptions in few cases in the larger national interests.

Saudi is no doubt a dictatorial state but again an ally of US. Saudi may indirectly promoting terrorism by its extremist Islam but is not harboring a Bin Laden as Taliban did.

Reports published by CIA can be eye opener for US policy makers as there is a full fledged system to devise and implement policies where all stake holders like Congress, White House, State department, Pentagon, CIA, CENTCOM etc are involved.

Karzai versus others: who are others? Taliban! Will you then prefer Taliban to Karzai? Aat least karzai has a democratic base, international recognition and support of majority of Afghans and their parliament. Karzai in pite of his some shortcomings is thousands time better than Taliban. Afghanistan should learn from Pakistan as they had military rules but are now totally on democratic track. We may have a better leader than Karzai in Afghanistan if we stop Taliban not to take Kabul once again. Average Afghan will understand the reality when she or he will see the difference between Taliban and karzai as now media and education is reaching everywhere. So far only they see Taliban in his mosque and village market. They need more exposure to the modern democratic world.

3. US should support democracy and human rights in Saudi and the whole world but all this century old system in Middle east and Muslim world will take time. Astart has been taken from Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and now Syria. A new Middle East is emerging. No doubt there will be qualms and issues but time will prove it that removal of Mubarak, Sadam and Qadafi was the first step in the journey towards a democratic Arab world. Maliki with his some problems is again thousands time better than Sadam as he will not rule for decades and we have hope for better leadership in future. Saudi being the custodian of Kaaba is a sensitive place and its turn may come at the end after Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and others.

4. Although I am not in favor of the theory of white man burden to civilize the colonized people by British in past but civilizations, cultures and nations always learn from each other. Arabs learnt from Persia, Central Asia and India and they taught to Europe. What we see today in Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan and even USA, all this is because of their colonization by British. Railway system, Postal system, network of canals, educational system, legal codes etc in Pakistan are all provided by British. Even some people opine that the perpetual problems of Afghanistan, tribal society, warlords, drugs, no communication system etc are all because of the reason that British did nor rule there.

The question was NOT directed to you. I would appreciate a deletion of this post so that Aria can provide his own, unadulterated view point. In the future, if my question includes you answering then please chime in... you dont need to be his lawyer. He is a grown man/computer being and can handle his own business. By posting above, he can simply side step and not provide an answer from his own vantage point and refer to your post.

You are welcome to comment after we recieve his version of the answer. National security paradigms are an easy cop out by the way, but they dont address the moral imperitives.

After he answers I think we can enter into a generalized discussion.

[Badlun]

Dr Sahb
Take it easy. You know very well that I am so far the only one here who challenge your fundamentalist, radical , conservative, status quo and conformist approach and that is why all my posts seem to you to be cliches and platitudes.

I am sorry if a small servant of the cause of Pashtun nation becomes a stumbling block in your royal grandeur and your sublime position here in the forums. Please in future I will not tolerate any insult. If you don not give any weight to my comments , just ignore them. I will comment on yours if I fee because I consider it important in the sense of sharing and learning here.

If my posts are platitudes then why you bother asking to delete them. Platitudes do not make any difference so let it be there. Don't be afraid of its presence and as these are nothing to you so Aria will also not learn any thing from it and will come up with his original thoughts. But we not target one member like Aria as here the academic discussion must continue and comments on any post from any member may be welcomed.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Thats the stupidest load of garbage I ever heard. I clearly stated in my request from Admin that if he thinks its a free speech issue to let it stand. I just think you purposfully try to answer for Aria when the question was clearly directed to and for CENTCOM. Had your post been placed after he answered no issue. I subsequently myself told Admin Khan that if you pestered him, instead of placing him in awkward position he should just let your verbal diarrhea be posted instead of being pulled into another comprimising situation.

Regarding you being a challenge; as I asked you to do before, remember that I am NOT your father and I was not the one that made your sister and mother wear the hijab and do purdah; so quit your psychiatric displacement syndrome. You are hardly a challenge, rather you are just a spambot and I really think your father sounds like a person much more acquainted with true Pashto and Pashtunwali - you should go and beg forgiveness from him.

Toramana is a challenge - to debate with him or to discuss with him actually means something because, apart from a few aberrations, he will try and at least validate claims instead of relying on repetitive spamming to make his point.

You can call me radical, fundamentalist, liberal, or conservative but what we all saw after your failed attempt to claim the banner of sufism when RTR exposed your general ignorance on it, 99% of people here see you outside the mainstream of both Islam and Pashtun identity. Rather what they witness is a psychopath intent on destroying Pashtuns because of an innate father conflict.

Your responses are predictable and generally go something like this:

Anyone that takes a literal interpretation of Islamic exegesis is crazy
These people have the right to no mistakes but the West can make multiple mistakes again and again and those are to be overlooked or stated to have been national security priorities
etc etc

Just basically post that little paragraph again and again and again and hope people wont snicker and laugh Osho... because your own potentially like minded colleagues see your posts as nauseating cliches. There is a post here in PF where you get a rebuke from Toramana for what he called nauseating commentary.

Dr Sahb
Take it easy. You know very well that I am so far the only one here who challenge your fundamentalist, radical , conservative, status quo and conformist approach and that is why all my posts seem to you to be cliches and platitudes.

I am sorry if a small servant of the cause of Pashtun nation becomes a stumbling block in your royal grandeur and your sublime position here in the forums. Please in future I will not tolerate any insult. If you don not give any weight to my comments , just ignore them. I will comment on yours if I fee because I consider it important in the sense of sharing and learning here.

If my posts are platitudes then why you bother asking to delete them. Platitudes do not make any difference so let it be there. Don't be afraid of its presence and as these are nothing to you so Aria will also not learn any thing from it and will come up with his original thoughts. But we not target one member like Aria as here the academic discussion must continue and comments on any post from any member may be welcomed.

[Badlun]

Are you such a stupid, idiot, dullard, shameless, bundle of dirt and mean person that you do not understand the language of respect. Ho many times you will disgrace my sister, mother and father by mentioning in these internet general academic debates. ARE YOU A PASHTUN OR A DALLA, beghairat insect who do not know that one should respect relations of others at least a mother and sister. You say that I am repeating but you more than 4 times repeated the same dirt and filth from your foul mouth.

I have told you ignore my comments if you do not agree or you consider it worthless. Just ignore you ass hole. What do you think that just by referring few inter net sites or mentioning names of few authors make your posts more scholarly. This is just your inferiority complex. Always referring to others. May be I am there where your authors have reached. May be my knowledge, experience, thoughts and standard is far beyond your bookish approach and I may not need any one to quote to substantiate my stand point and I feel better to share my original take instead of quoting others. Yes I quote others whenever I need them.
So you pig, dirty street stray dog, do not mention my family again in your internet discussions.

I can easily get many friends and many thanks to my posts if I toe the established line as you do. I am iconoclastic breaking many wrongly established norms and notions so I can understand if I am opposed or worms like you feel threatened or insecure. Come refute my arguments with counter arguments not mentioning my family all the times.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Osho Osbourne calm down dumb sh-it, I'm COMPLIMENTING your father mother and sister fool. Is your "lawyerly" English that poor that you misunderstood simple anglosaxon? I'm saying YOU are a psychopath torturer Guantanamo style black glove wearing Hannibal lecter type but that your dad mother and sister are REAL Pashtuns while your chikhaan daos dalaa kharthope is your own fault not theirs. You said clearly your father observed strict Islam etc etc it is obvious you are immature and still mad at him. So learn to read English and also learn real pashtunwali and then talk.. Otherwise put a cork in that flatulating anus you call a mouth.

Are you such a stupid, idiot, dullard, shameless, bundle of dirt and mean person that you do not understand the language of respect. Ho many times you will disgrace my sister, mother and father by mentioning in these internet general academic debates. ARE YOU A PASHTUN OR A DALLA, beghairat insect who do not know that one should respect relations of others at least a mother and sister. You say that I am repeating but you more than 4 times repeated the same dirt and filth from your foul mouth.

I have told you ignore my comments if you do not agree or you consider it worthless. Just ignore you ass hole. What do you think that just by referring few inter net sites or mentioning names of few authors make your posts more scholarly. This is just your inferiority complex. Always referring to others. May be I am there where your authors have reached. May be my knowledge, experience, thoughts and standard is far beyond your bookish approach and I may not need any one to quote to substantiate my stand point and I feel better to share my original take instead of quoting others. Yes I quote others whenever I need them.
So you pig, dirty street stray dog, do not mention my family again in your internet discussions.

I can easily get many friends and many thanks to my posts if I toe the established line as you do. I am iconoclastic breaking many wrongly established norms and notions so I can understand if I am opposed or worms like you feel threatened or insecure. Come refute my arguments with counter arguments not mentioning my family all the times.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

And by the way instead of reaching my authors I think you need to reach into a medicine cabinet for some diazepam to calm your ignorant repetitive mind down. Quit advocating western culture when you cannot even follow simple western rules of evidence based argumentation and resemble the village idiot instead.

Are you such a stupid, idiot, dullard, shameless, bundle of dirt and mean person that you do not understand the language of respect. Ho many times you will disgrace my sister, mother and father by mentioning in these internet general academic debates. ARE YOU A PASHTUN OR A DALLA, beghairat insect who do not know that one should respect relations of others at least a mother and sister. You say that I am repeating but you more than 4 times repeated the same dirt and filth from your foul mouth.

I have told you ignore my comments if you do not agree or you consider it worthless. Just ignore you ass hole. What do you think that just by referring few inter net sites or mentioning names of few authors make your posts more scholarly. This is just your inferiority complex. Always referring to others. May be I am there where your authors have reached. May be my knowledge, experience, thoughts and standard is far beyond your bookish approach and I may not need any one to quote to substantiate my stand point and I feel better to share my original take instead of quoting others. Yes I quote others whenever I need them.
So you pig, dirty street stray dog, do not mention my family again in your internet discussions.

I can easily get many friends and many thanks to my posts if I toe the established line as you do. I am iconoclastic breaking many wrongly established norms and notions so I can understand if I am opposed or worms like you feel threatened or insecure. Come refute my arguments with counter arguments not mentioning my family all the times.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Badlun ...please save yourself your own dignity and humilation; you don't have to always intervene just to do damage control on behalf of Imperialistic interests. Let them answer for themselves. I'm sure they'll appreciate you as their servant but you're actually hurting their cause than helping because Aria CENTCOM comes and merely responds by hiding behind your frankly poor and faulty answers, We will know it is merely a propaganda tool and thus will warrant its expulsion. You don't want your only friend and ally to be vanquished do you?

[Badlun]

If the president of Afghanistan and parliament of Afghanistan are with Cencom and US , I feel no hesitation that I am an ally of Aria or any one who want to see Pashtuns prosperous and modern and not throw them to the wild Taliban.

I do not need to be the servant of any body as I have my own servants including many foreigners. I pay others so I cannot expect any material gain from any one else but yes I appreciate their role in the fight against the terror. Remove Taliban and then no body can justify the presence of foreign troops in Afghan soil.

I have my freedom of speech and if Aria cannot or will not reply , I can continue this discussion on his behalf. But at the same time as I already requested him/her to be regular here. If he can not handle the situation then may ask some senior one in his organization to respond to the queries of the members here.

[SiiNii]

Order in the court!



Mods, can we split off a thread where only CENTCOM, Barakzai & moderators are allowed to post?

[Joey_Gladstonezai]

Why only Barakzai, why not khwazun and any others that would want to participate?

[SiiNii]

The quality of his posts have been consistently higher than anyone else here, I think he is a best choice for a 'representative'. The other should submit their questions to him or a mod for consolidation so that we don't have redundant or off topic questions.

Besides if everyone is allowed to post, then its only a matter of time before Aryan Sakazai starts asking CENTCOM if "A Scythian-Tokharian alliance under Kanishka might not be a better alternative to the Karzai administration?", "Why did coalition forces arm the ANA with M16s instead of a more robust, battle proven weapon that Afghans are already familiar with, such as the recurve-compound bow?"

[RevolutionThroughReason]

If the president of Afghanistan and parliament of Afghanistan are with Cencom and US , I feel no hesitation that I am an ally of Aria or any one who want to see Pashtuns prosperous and modern and not throw them to the wild Taliban.

I do not need to be the servant of any body as I have my own servants including many foreigners. I pay others so I cannot expect any material gain from any one else but yes I appreciate their role in the fight against the terror. Remove Taliban and then no body can justify the presence of foreign troops in Afghan soil.

I have my freedom of speech and if Aria cannot or will not reply , I can continue this discussion on his behalf. But at the same time as I already requested him/her to be regular here. If he can not handle the situation then may ask some senior one in his organization to respond to the queries of the members here.

Well we already know from a long time that you're a self styled propaganda minister, not in any conspiratorial sense but anything Imperialistic you have support for. Not sure why, perhaps you have a House-Slave mentality just like many Black Slaves used to defend their White Masters against those who sought their liberation. Perhaps it's that conditioned belief of generations of subservience which creates this mentality. Who knows?

The Point is CENTCOM does not require you to answer on their behalf, They have abundant resources and ability to do so. They represents American Govt. Let them speak for themselves rather than have a ISI-style whitewash campaign to hide and disguise their inconsistencies. Even then you do a poor job as it's easy to look at evidence and see your narrative is not consistent with evidence.

Now as for President of Afghanistan, bear in mind that he was Installed by Imperialistic Forces in Afghanistan, the credibility of his support is suspect especially considering even Human Rights Organizations have Highlighted that his Election was marked with Voter Tampering and Coercion. Which is essentially similar to Saddam Hussein type of processes. None the less just like Saddam Hussein, Karzai is no longer favored by America and Karzai knowing this no longer is favored by America, in fact currently American Thinktank is saying that Americam Government should do what they can now to dispose of Karzai. How will you lick the dog feces from their shoe then Badlun?

[Joey_Gladstonezai]

The quality of his posts have been consistently higher than anyone else here, I think he is a best choice for a 'representative'. The other should submit their questions to him or a mod for consolidation so that we don't have redundant or off topic questions.

Besides if everyone is allowed to post, then its only a matter of time before Aryan Sakazai starts asking CENTCOM if "A Scythian-Tokharian alliance under Kanishka might not be a better alternative to the Karzai administration?", "Why did coalition forces arm the ANA with M16s instead of a more robust, battle proven weapon that Afghans are already familiar with, such as the recurve-compound bow?"

Yeah, I know. No need to remind me. Sometimes I just get a little jealous of him, that's all. <_< Why does everything always have to revolve around Barakzai? Barakzai this, Barakzai that. Barakzai is so intelligent, oh I dedicated these parathas to you Barakzai. How come I don't get any attention?