My question to Darwinists/evolution believers.

[Manzareh]

How did the first organisms develop instinct from a basic molecule with limited capabilities.. Even through thousands or millions of years how did they then develop 'intellect' all by them selves? What installed this 'surviving' drive/force.. And its agreed animals can store information about its difficulty in life perhaps hunting or fleeing for example but how does an animal store that specific information to be developed physically into the future offspring (evolution) through no other connection apart from mental thoughts in the brain..how does it install the need for better hunting or fleeing in the next life form it creates with nobody installing the necessary information directly into the next being.

[MostafaM]

1. There are no "believers" in evolution because evolution is a theory and not a believe system.
You can favour it over other theories but you don´t believe in them.
Theories are plausible explanations in contrast to a believe that isn´t backed up by reason at all.

2. It´s not clear how macro molecules formed a system of higher order that can store information in form of DNA and pass them to the next filial generation. The Miller/Urey Experiment clearly indicated that such macro molecules could have been generated in the primeval soup. Bigger macro molecules of higher order can be generated because chemical compounds of higher order have a lower Gibbs Energy under certain circumstances.

But you are right, many question still remain unanswered.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that no system of smaller order can transform into a system of higher order without a form of energy/work being induced on it.


3. Information is not stored the way you described it.
In one filal generation millions of different gene combinations lead to million types of different individuals of the same species.
Only the biotic and abiotic factors of their environment (weather, availibility of food, water supply, competition with other species and their fellows for resources etc.) favour certain individuals who are more fit to survive in the environment they were born in.
Those who have slightly better chances to survive pass their genes to the next generation with a slightly higher ratio thant those who aren´t that fit.
That´s how certain features are passed more frequently than others.
That´s how information is stored in a population.
You can think of it as a data base of a whole population, a big server.
Rather than small individual usb sticks that are carried around by each individual.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Evolution and Biogenesis are two different subject matters.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

But you are right, many question still remain unanswered.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics clearly states that no system of smaller order can transform into a system of higher order without a form of energy/work being induced on it.

.

That's the key fallacy Creatonists always pull; 2nd Law of Thermodynamics; But the 2nd Law states that a CLOSED SYSTEM will reach maximum entropy and minimum enthaply. The Earth isn't closed we get energy from the Sun, cosmic radiation AND the Planet's own gravitational field energy produced by it's distance from the Sun and the influence of other planet's and the Sun's gravity on Earth, all provide energy and thus would sustain order for processes like evolution to occur.


what these questions demonstrate is ignorance of science. not "questions that stump scientists"

so strange that Manzareh made a thread that people who ignore evidence and read into situations developing elaborate conspiracies are somehow "thinking for themselves"

But yet he has no problem accepting blind belief in creationaism despite ALL the evidence for evolution.

[afghan]

Mohammedan Theory of Evolution

The Muslim scientists ibn Kathir, ibn Khauldun, ibn Arabi, ibn Sina, among other scientists, such as the Ikhwan school of thought, arrived at the same conclusions as Darwin with a convincing amount of evidence. Some westerners, including Darwin’s contemporary, Sir William Draper, called it the Mohammedan Theory of Evolution.

The Mu’tazili scientist and philosopher al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) was the first of the Muslim biologists and philosophers to develop an early theory of evolution. He speculated on the influence of the environment on animals, considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and first described the struggle for existence and an early theory on natural selection. Al-Jahiz wrote the following on the struggle for existence:

“Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.”

There are clearly things which are simply argument by analogy. For instance: coral has branches like a tree; the date palm “does not wither if all its branches are chopped but it dies when the head is cut off” — so it’s like an animal. And through such analogy they link minerals to plants to animals.

In fact, Hamidullah’s summary reads something like a Great Chain of Being — which was associated with commoners earlier — while al-Jahiz’s description reminds of natural selection.

i have got that from http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1712098

the interest point is darwin didnt claim it to be his theory. He reffered to the theory of evolution as Mohammadan theory.

[afghan]

Islamic Theory of Evolution

http://exmypar.wordpress.com/2007/10...-of-evolution/

[Kushan Prince]

Evolution is stupid.

[Manzareh]

Adaptations ok fair enough.. successful breeding by the strong developing strong offspring makes sense too, iv been looking into this topic with an open mind i believe in evolution to an extent depending on how you look at it, i see development of creatures/living objects as a plausible theory but I dont agree with modern day life forms originated from nothing/atmospheric reactions.

[Kushan Prince]

Adaptations ok fair enough.. successful breeding by the strong developing strong offspring makes sense too, iv been looking into this topic with an open mind i believe in evolution to an extent depending on how you look at it, i see development of creatures/living objects as a plausible theory but I dont agree with modern day life forms originated from nothing/atmospheric reactions.

So you believe dinosaurs turned into fishes, and fishes turned into ground animals and humans?

[Khostai]

So you believe dinosaurs turned into fishes, and fishes turned into ground animals and humans?

No dino's that survived the meteor, turned in to birds.

[Karachi]

Mohammedan Theory of Evolution

The Muslim scientists ibn Kathir, ibn Khauldun, ibn Arabi, ibn Sina, among other scientists, such as the Ikhwan school of thought, arrived at the same conclusions as Darwin with a convincing amount of evidence. Some westerners, including Darwin’s contemporary, Sir William Draper, called it the Mohammedan Theory of Evolution.

The Mu’tazili scientist and philosopher al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) was the first of the Muslim biologists and philosophers to develop an early theory of evolution. He speculated on the influence of the environment on animals, considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and first described the struggle for existence and an early theory on natural selection. Al-Jahiz wrote the following on the struggle for existence:

“Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.”

There are clearly things which are simply argument by analogy. For instance: coral has branches like a tree; the date palm “does not wither if all its branches are chopped but it dies when the head is cut off” — so it’s like an animal. And through such analogy they link minerals to plants to animals.

In fact, Hamidullah’s summary reads something like a Great Chain of Being — which was associated with commoners earlier — while al-Jahiz’s description reminds of natural selection.

i have got that from http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1712098

the interest point is darwin didnt claim it to be his theory. He reffered to the theory of evolution as Mohammadan theory.

amazing, there was a time when western scientists looked up to muslims scientists and their studies. Look at our state today, we have nothing but ignorance to offer the world

[Kushan Prince]

No dino's that survived the meteor, turned in to birds.

Now don't tell me you believe that!

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Adaptations ok fair enough.. successful breeding by the strong developing strong offspring makes sense too, iv been looking into this topic with an open mind i believe in evolution to an extent depending on how you look at it, i see development of creatures/living objects as a plausible theory but I dont agree with modern day life forms originated from nothing/atmospheric reactions.

well lucky for you, evolution does not assert that hypothesis.

[afghan]

Adaptations ok fair enough.. successful breeding by the strong developing strong offspring makes sense too, iv been looking into this topic with an open mind i believe in evolution to an extent depending on how you look at it, i see development of creatures/living objects as a plausible theory but I dont agree with modern day life forms originated from nothing/atmospheric reactions.

i uderstood from your writing that you believe in natural selection not in evolution.
And Allah has Created every animal from water; of them are some creeping on their bellies; some walk on two legs; and some on four. Allah Creates what He wills: for sure Allah has Power over all things.

[Noble Quran 24:45]

"Allah is - Al Khaliq" (The Creator)
"Allah is - Al Bari" (The Evolver)

[Manzareh]

^ so you believe in the evolution theory but believe god made it happen, sounds strange specially when evolution is usually seen as something to prove god doesn't exist.