Is there any room for secularism within a muslim body ?

[Afghanistan2010]

In this thread,i want to know your opinion regarind the issue of Secularism,anyone who can please clearfy your stance on which position you are if possible,very appreciate.

Secularism has no place in the lands of Islam for two reasons:

The first of these is that Islam is the religion that Allah sent down to replace the previous manifestations of the faith and to govern all aspects of life. The simplest Muslim can see how Islam explains all matters in detail. It is impossible for a Muslim to feel that the religion that regulates his marital affairs, his business, his eating habits, his manner of sleeping, and even how he goes to the bathroom could ever leave managing the political and economic affairs of society to other than Allah.

For Allah says:

“We have neglected nothing in the Book.” [

Sûrah al-An`âm: 38]

“We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things” [
Sûrah al-Nahl: 89]

This issue is not open for debate. Islam, as the final religion, has supremacy over all faiths and over every aspect of life. There is no place for secularism in the lands of Islam
or among the Muslims.

The second reason is that throughout the history of Islam, it never experienced the troubles that were faced by Europe on account of its corrupted faith. Among the most important of these was the horrific breach that took place between religion and science.

Religion fought against science so fiercely that the church burned some scientists to death on the grounds that those scientists went against the word of Allah.

Islamic history contains nothing of the sort. Islam opened the doors to scientific enquiry and encouraged intellectual activity. Scientists were frequent guests at the courts and
assemblies of various caliphs and received a fair share of royal gifts and patronage.

The Muslim world never in its long history encountered the persecution and restriction of its
scientists. There were no inquisitions like there were in Europe.
Islam never experienced the abuses of a Church that took from the people great sums of money, restricted their intellectual lives, and burned their scientists and thinkers, all in the
name of religion. Quite the contrary, Muslim history is one of amicability between science and the religion whose first revelation was “Read in the name of your Lord who
created.” Science is one of the fruits of proper adherence to Islam. It is a result of obeying Allah’s command to learn, teach, read, and study.

Those who wish to bring secularism to the Muslim world ignore this major difference between the religious history of the Islamic world and the religious history of Europe
wherein secularism developed.

.

Islam and Secularism,page 7/8

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It's not a black and white issue, it depends on what aspects of secularism or Islam are being dealt with.



These very superficial and narrow understandings of Islamic Law and its interpretation as exhibited in that article don'r really consider the nuances of Islam where more secular solutions are actually advocated.

There is a Hadith in Sahih Muslim where The Arabs were crosspollinating date trees, he gave a suggestion which didn't work and then he said "You know your worldly affairs better than I do".

which means there is some room in Islam for a more secular interpretation

[asad71]

1.The answer depends on how you define Secularism? This is a political concept which took birth in Europe about 200 years back. Nehru picked it up for political use first as a Congress Party policy and then incorporated in the constitution. But Europeans themselves have discarded this.

2. In India Secularism is used for exploiting religious minorities including those of Hindu lower cast.

3. Muslims living in Muslim majority nations like Afghanistan or BD don't need it. Islam enjoins us to respect other faiths and protect religious minorities. Muslims don't need secularism as an additional state policy when the spirit of Islam is positive towards the minorities.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

what about Jizya? .....do you not think jizya is a discrimitory practice against religious minorities

what about people who just don't have an interest in living Islamically, how should they be dealt with, should they be persecuted in society or pressured to pretend to be Muslim?

These questions have no solutions in the current Islamic understanding except by a few more broad minded thinkers.

[ډګروال]

what about Jizya? .....do you not think jizya is a discrimitory practice against religious minorities

what about people who just don't have an interest in living Islamically, how should they be dealt with, should they be persecuted in society or pressured to pretend to be Muslim?

These questions have no solutions in the current Islamic understanding except by a few more broad minded thinkers.

and you must be one of those broad minded thinker?

[Friend]

Secularism and Islam are two different systems which affect individual and community life both. If secularism can be used in the state matters for the betterment of the society then why not Islam ? Those who think Islam is a personal matter, actually want to treat with Islam the way they have done with Christianity in the west.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

and you must be one of those broad minded thinker?

well how would you deal with someone who said, I don't think Islam is the religion for me. ...send him to die or leave him alone as long as he obeys the standards of society?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Secularism and Islam are two different systems which affect individual and community life both. If secularism can be used in the state matters for the betterment of the society then why not Islam ? Those who think Islam is a personal matter, actually want to treat with Islam the way they have done with Christianity in the west.

It's not whether Islam can rule a society or not; its that does it rule society fairly where EVERYONE has a fair opportunity?

Will a person who is Hindu or simply Not Muslim be given a chance to work and provide for their family equally or will there be special preferences for Muslims over non-Muslims? if that's the case, then do you blame people for not wanting Islam to rule them?

It's ultimately about Justice and Rights

also there are some rules in Islam which are questionable; Will Slavery be banned in society or permitted because Nabi(saw) captured slaves?

Secular societies are far from perfect BUT one thing is that if there is something wrong in secular society; you can CHANGE it and IMPROVE it, can you do the same with Islam?

I'm not a secularist but I think the way Islam is interpreted by the Mullahs would create a situation of grave social imbalanace

[Friend]

It's not whether Islam can rule a society or not; its that does it rule society fairly where EVERYONE has a fair opportunity?

Will a person who is Hindu or simply Not Muslim be given a chance to work and provide for their family equally or will there be special preferences for Muslims over non-Muslims? if that's the case, then do you blame people for not wanting Islam to rule them?

It's ultimately about Justice and Rights

also there are some rules in Islam which are questionable; Will Slavery be banned in society or permitted because Nabi(saw) captured slaves?

Secular societies are far from perfect BUT one thing is that if there is something wrong in secular society; you can CHANGE it and IMPROVE it, can you do the same with Islam?

I'm not a secularist but I think the way Islam is interpreted by the Mullahs would create a situation of grave social imbalanace

As far as hadood are concerned nothing can be changed but other matters are debatable but everything must be within the boundaries of Islam and decided by the scholars and not the parliamentarians (where people elect drunk, adulterers, thieves, corrupt). You can make changes but does not mean you borrow everything from other societies even if that is better appearently because Islam teaches us to look not at the appearance of a thing but the long term benefit and not just yourself but the mankind.
Now, the term "long term" in the west means for the whole of one's life or till the end of this world but we Muslims have different meaning of this world which is infinite. Our every action if for the pleasure of Allah and to get benefit in the here after. So a society based of Islamic teachings is totally different than of the western materialistic, dance party, drunk, dogs, cats, pets, cars, buildings, fashion, cosmetics, showing off, money making and body showing society.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

As far as hadood are concerned nothing can be changed but other matters are debatable but everything must be within the boundaries of Islam and decided by the scholars and not the parliamentarians (where people elect drunk, adulterers, thieves, corrupt). You can make changes but does not mean you borrow everything from other societies even if that is better appearently because Islam teaches us to look not at the appearance of a thing but the long term benefit and not just yourself but the mankind.
Now, the term "long term" in the west means for the whole of one's life or till the end of this world but we Muslims have different meaning of this world which is infinite. Our every action if for the pleasure of Allah and to get benefit in the here after. So a society based of Islamic teachings is totally different than of the western materialistic, dance party, drunk, dogs, cats, pets, cars, buildings, fashion, cosmetics, showing off, money making and body showing society.

Why are you so obsessed with Huduud? Hadud is the least part of Islamic Law, this is even the opinion of classical Scholars like Shaibani and Marwardi.

No one can change hudud but hudud can be suspended; we know this because Khalifa Umar(ra) suspended many hudud because of the condition of society or because it was not necessary.

A Law has to be for the benefit of human welfare IN THIS world because Allah(swt) does not need us for his Pleasure, Allah(swt) is self sufficient. Allah(swt) gave us rules for OUR benefit not his. He needs nothing from us.

This west vs. Islamic is nonsense argument; because YOU are Living in the West, if you believed in your words you wouldn't be here. You are here because West gives you food, a job a roof over your head, comfort. It isn't about "drink and cosmetics" those are things that are available, what is the benefit is that you have health care, you have education, you have your needs fulfilled.

What if a drinker or adulterer is better at doing a Job than someone who doesn't drink or do adultery?

For example say someone elected Mullah Sandwich , even though maybe that's a bad example since he has sex with Boys ...but You think Mullah Sandwich is a good leader right? Ok so ....he has no knowledge of government or how to operate a budget

No one should drink or spend so lavishly; but What counts is Merit to be able to do the job. When someone gets hired at a job Do they ask you if you're a Good Muslim or Good Jew? No they ask if you can do a good job.

Look at the Taliban; they claimed to be good Muslims; but murdered innocent people.....so what did it prove? That being a Good Muslim doesn't mean you will govern society the right way

[Karachi]

it really depends who is running the sharia system, if it is in the the hands of illiterate extremists mullahs, it will be a very big fail

However If Sharia is run by proper well educated muslim scholars who will properly follow actual islamic rulings with out cultural/tribal interferences, it can work

but I dont see that happening currently, jahilya is every where in the muslim world. They need to properly get educated in Islam and other knowledge before implementing any sharia system

[ekram aaaser aka]

it really depends who is running the sharia system, if it is in the the hands of illiterate extremists mullahs, it will be a very big fail

However If Sharia is run by proper well educated muslim scholars who will properly follow actual islamic rulings with out cultural/tribal interferences, it can work

but I dont see that happening currently, jahilya is every where in the muslim world. They need to properly get educated in Islam and other knowledge before implementing any sharia system

islam is complete syatem of life.....and secularism is other made by humans.....so both are contradictory...once you accept islam then there is no space for other systems inside you otherwise its shirk...LA ILAHA..means no other power to bow infront of,,ILLALLAH,,,,exept allah.
Iqbal sayz
karda am andar muqamaatash nazar.....la btan o la kalisa la ILAH.
KASHTIYISH dar teez bad e la bamand...markab e khod ra sooe ILA na raand
har do taqdeer e jahaan e kaaf o noon...harkat az LA zaayad az ILA sukoon.

[randolph85]

privately, yes. publicly, no.