This is secularists and their intentions...

[Badlun]

Faye:

You need to understand this. Islam is not comprehensive with atheism and secularism. No religion is. Just look what has happened to Christianity after Christian countries became secularists. 1000 of different sects, gay and lesbians allowed to marry and adopt, alcohol, sex and other moraly wrong thing are exposed. Gambling etc. There is no spiritualy left.

But this will never happen for Islam because the Holy Quran is the word of Almighty Allah (swt).

We Muslims are nobody to questions the most noble, the most high and most merficul of all Almighty Allah (swt) words. If we first start to do so we have moved to an wrong patch. Unfortunately some Muslims living in the West, as well as in the Ummah, think that they can behave un-Islamic during the whole week and then pray one time every week during salat al-gum'ah. Alhamdulillah this is only minority.

I know you do not understand this since you are not Muslim and never have been or lived in an Muslim country but this is how most Muslims see thinks. Some might not always be good examples (we are all sinners) but Muslims would never question their believe in Islam or leave it for the sake of atheism, communism and other man-made idelogies.

The atheism on this forum are not Muslims, they say so themselves, but their cultural background is Muslim and they are more attached (know more) about the Islamic culture than Western culture for example or Chinese culture. But this do not mean that they are representatives for Islam.

I could have said this in a better way in Arabic but English is not my first language so I hope you understand my points.

Secular world might have got evils like alcohol, sexual freedom etc but Muslim world have dictatorships, poverty, illiteracy, polygamy, apartheid, treating women like animals, no science, no technology, no one in G8. Some like Saudi are better but only because of natural resources not human resources.The secular world despite of all the so called evils have democracy, development, human rights and modern education.

If tomorrow you announce that there is free entry into the developed secular world without any visa then even the dogs in the Muslim world would rush to enter the secular world. Muslims are only prisoners in the jails of the Muslim rulers. The only way towards development is secularism which is not to abandon religion but to separate it from politics, culture and society.

I am not in favour of atheism for Muslims but secularism will be the only option if Muslims want to be modern, developed and educated. When Christians became secular after renaissance and reformation they saw democracy and development. Muslims must follow the same way.

[Soldat_Amir]

Karachi vrora

When Veena Malik did what she did, there was uproar in Pakistan but when a Baloch women by the name of Zarina Marri gets raped by soldiers, nobody even takes notice, or when a Mullah gets arrested for raping boys and little girls in Karachi, nobody takes notice, look on the streets of Karachi, little boys, get abused by pimps who kidnap them and abuse them and force them to dance to other perverts, nobody takes notice but when a Pakistani women goes to India and strips, there is sudden out break of insults and threats to harm her.

Pakistani society itself is so hypocritcal. The problems are in Pakistan not on Veena Maliks body.

[tor_khan]

to be honest, Veena malik is even hated by pakistani secularists from what I have seen on Tv.

for example no body in the film/tv industry likes her , because she has insulted everybody by her actions

??? I don't get the "she has insulted everybody" part. She may have embarrassed her family, but her family is not everybody.

Given the direction that the media (even in Pakistan) is taking towards cheap thrills, the problem is simple, not that I agree with her choice. The problem is not that Veena Malik chose to undress. The problem is that Veena Malik chose to undress in India.

Two different sentences.

[Badlun]

If some of you don't know what secularism, secularists are and what their intentions are so just listen to this model of the secular world.

Aurton ko apni marzi ke kapray pehannay ki ijazat di jaye - veena malik - YouTube

And please note that Veena malik may not be a secular woman ideologically. This is her personal action and attitude. Secularism does not mean nudity, obscenity, sexual perversion or pornography. Secularism is just to give due place to religion and politics. Not mixing both. One can be religious and secular at the same time. Following religion in faith, worship and morality and following other political, economic, cultural, educational and social sytems.

[Karachi]

Karachi vrora

When Veena Malik did what she did, there was uproar in Pakistan but when a Baloch women by the name of Zarina Marri gets raped by soldiers, nobody even takes notice, or when a Mullah gets arrested for raping boys and little girls in Karachi, nobody takes notice, look on the streets of Karachi, little boys, get abused by pimps who kidnap them and abuse them and force them to dance to other perverts, nobody takes notice but when a Pakistani women goes to India and strips, there is sudden out break of insults and threats to harm her.

Pakistani society itself is so hypocritcal. The problems are in Pakistan not on Veena Maliks body.

yes they are big hypocrites in every thing they do, there is no question or denying in this. I will be lying if deny this

hypocrisy is actually prevalent in muslim societies as a whole, we tend to focus on small issues all the time, yet big issues, like they things you mentioned, we never focus on, instead just hide them

[Karachi]

??? I don't get the "she has insulted everybody" part. She may have embarrassed her family, but her family is not everybody.

Given the direction that the media (even in Pakistan) is taking towards cheap thrills, the problem is simple, not that I agree with her choice. The problem is not that Veena Malik chose to undress. The problem is that Veena Malik chose to undress in India.

Two different sentences.

yes that's the part. the reason every body is pissed at her is because she has done this in India. if she had done this in pakistan, no body will say any thing

In the other thread about veena malik I said, instead of blaming her, they should blame the mujra/heera mandi culture that is prevalent in pakistan. But again this exposes their hypocrisy on issues.

[tor_khan]

yes that's the part. the reason every body is pissed at her is because she has done this in India. if she had done this in pakistan, no body will say any thing

In the other thread about veena malik I said, instead of blaming her, they should blame the mujra/heera mandi culture that is prevalent in pakistan. But again this exposes their hypocrisy.

Yes, but you also said it didn't exist in Karachi.

[Karachi]

^ heera mandi and mujras do not exist in karachi as far as I know, but other sort of activities, they probably do. I know for a fact that there are many prostitutes roaming the streets of Karachi. Karachi is a big city, so these sort of problems will be there. no denying.

[tor_khan]

... I don't really want to get into a debate on prostitution in Karachi, but what makes mujra different to walking the streets?

The point was you were in near denial at first at the thought of prostitution in Karachi, but looks like you've reversed your view on that one too.

Actually, this is *not my kind of topic* suffice to say that the problem with shouting "heera mundi" as an insult is that it kind of suggests that all this happens in India, because of Indic influence ... as if non-Indians occupy a better ground of morality and as if Karachi and Lahore are not 'Indian' in any shape or form.

[Karachi]

... I don't really want to get into a debate on prostitution in Karachi, but what makes mujra different to walking the streets?

The point was you were in near denial at first at the thought of prostitution in Karachi, but looks like you've reversed your view on that one too.

Actually, this is *not my kind of topic* suffice to say that the problem with shouting "heera mundi" as an insult is that it kind of suggests that all this happens in India, because of Indic influence ... as if non-Indians occupy a better ground of morality and as if Karachi and Lahore are not 'Indian' in any shape or form.

where have I said that this happens in India more??? in fact I said earlier on this forum that the biggest prostitution market in south asia is Heera mandi and it is located in pakistan.

Also what I denied about karachi is the (mujra) culture. I still say this that it doesn't exist in Karachi at least on the level of some other cities in pakistan, but that doesn't mean any kind of prostitution of other bad things are not happening in karachi, I never denied this. Karachi is a huge city with all types of people living there

The difference between Heera mandi and regular prostitution is that one is systematic (heera mandi) it's even supported by the government and police on some level and has been going on for centuries, it's sort of become part of the culture. The prostitution that is happening in Karachi is out of necessity mostly, most of these women are really poor and come from all over the country.

This said, any type of prostitution be it systematic or out of need is wrong. I am not denying this

[emkhan]

EMKHAN follow your principles, buy yourself a one way ticket back to Pakistan and leave Britain. Its as simple as that. Why dislike Secularism when you flew yourself to live under Secularism.

Rant on buddy but most here consider you a total waste of time.

I am here to defuse your devil mind. and I am not here on anyone payroll like you. My father pays for me and I am living here on my own.
The western world have looted the whole world and still looting so what If I come here spending my own money.

[emkhan]

Who can remember when EMKHAN use to display a pic of a ISI general called Abdul Rehman. Funny isnt it.

Abdur Rahman was no doubt a great man unlike you.

[emkhan]

Emkhana domra jangona waly kay.

Lol I am not.

[Master Khan]

If some of you don't know what secularism, secularists are and what their intentions are so just listen to this model of the secular world.

Aurton ko apni marzi ke kapray pehannay ki ijazat di jaye - veena malik - YouTube

well keep it in punjab, we don't want her ideas in our lovely pakhtunkhwa.
even men in our villages don't wear jeans etc never mind women lol.
this Veena Malik should just F*** off to India and marry a hindu and stop annoying us.