Da Malakand Ghar

[badmash_khel]

wow
you never back up muslims when they get insulted
i understood the point though,i disrespected the donkey.
since we believe that all animals are muslims it is a disrespect to the donkey to call such a guy a donkey.

if someone has no respect for your religion and your family and whoel country,would you respect them?

Having an opinion and not agreeing with your religion is not insulting it. He has to right to criticize Islam or any other religion. He has the right to point out things and scrutinze them and he has the right to object to certain things in Islam which he finds abhorent. You can disagree with him and try to remove his misconceptions in a civilized manner. if he doesn't want to discuss then just do a dua for him to come to the right path. Thats all.

Where has he insulted your family members? If he has then he needs to be punished by the mods.

[faye]

demalaknadkhar

isn't the american flag yours?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Having an opinion and not agreeing with your religion is not insulting it. He has to right to criticize Islam or any other religion. He has the right to point out things and scrutinze them and he has the right to object to certain things in Islam which he finds abhorent. You can disagree with him and try to remove his misconceptions in a civilized manner. if he doesn't want to discuss then just do a dua for him to come to the right path. Thats all.

Where has he insulted your family members? If he has then he needs to be punished by the mods.

I actually disagree and here is why.

There are two contrasting ways that Islam have been discussed.

Take for instance a very challenging and introspective thread by Mostafa posted in the past, examining manuscripts in Sanaa and the potential challenge to the authenticity of the Quran. Now mind you the Quran is the very bedrock on which ALL Islamic thought processes rest. It is the cornerstone and constitution of Islam. Now if you perchance go to that thread what I recall is that there is generally no slur or insult leveled at Mostafa and the discussion was fruitful. A discussion ensued with a response paper from Arabica and everyone learned something. Mostafa posted the work of Gerard Puin and I posted an Arabica article from Uwe bergmann discussing the Sanaa fragments.

Toramana aka MalakandGhar on the other hand has in the past blatantly instigated emotion versus discussion. He serves as a FOX News equivalent brand of discussion here on PF. Take for instance his discussion about Bilaal ibn Rabah. He published blatant mistruths about the gentleman's marriage history in order to construct a narrative that attempted to make it as if the early Muslims were living alongside 19th century American Slave Plantation owners. He alleged that Bilaal never married and provided no evidence for such claims.... adding that the sahabah so looked down on Bilaal that they shunned him from society. Not a single bit of evidence buttressed his statements. If you actually read the hadith literature its quiet the contrary, the first Caliph of Islam had given his own daughter in marriage to Bilaal... undoing this narrative that this person was attempting to construct.

In a more recent thread he indirectly mocks the hijri lunar calender, despite the fact that there is a very real and insteresting discussion about the merits and demerits of the lunar and the solar calender and in regard to Quranic law declaring a set number of months. Instead he lowers the discussion by posting crude images from racist websites that imply Arabs as a race = Islam. Read other threads where he makes sweeping statements about Islamic law and associated punishments without having done the proper research. The issue for instance, of Rape and Zina have been discussed in great detail in Al Azhaar and in hadith literature itself... yet he makes it a point to do a bait and switch and link the inappropriate execution of Islamic law with a baseless assertion that this is actually authentic Islam.

So I think you are being imbalanced here. And it goes both ways. There are some true believers in a democratic secular system here. What ends up happening is that the other side condemns secular democracy without an appropriate discussion about what exactly secular democracy is... how it is applied and what sort of democratic secularism would potentially evolve out of an interrupted and nonintervened upon Pashtun state.

Complexities are glossed over simply because someone decided that their opinion was ipso facto the moral highground and much is subsequently lost in the discussion.

[DaMalakandGhar]

Toramana aka MalakandGhar on the other hand has in the past blatantly instigated emotion versus discussion. He serves as a FOX News equivalent brand of discussion here on PF. Take for instance his discussion about Bilaal ibn Rabah. He published blatant mistruths about the gentleman's marriage history in order to construct a narrative that attempted to make it as if the early Muslims were living alongside 19th century American Slave Plantation owners. He alleged that Bilaal never married and provided no evidence for such claims.... adding that the sahabah so looked down on Bilaal that they shunned him from society. Not a single bit of evidence buttressed his statements. If you actually read the hadith literature its quiet the contrary, the first Caliph of Islam had given his own daughter in marriage to Bilaal... undoing this narrative that this person was attempting to construct.

The first thing is, I am not Toramana and the admins can corroborate that through my authentication record. The second thing is, it is not me or any other liberal or secular member of this forum having demonized Islam; these are rather your beloved Osama Bin Laden and the one-eyed Mullah Omar and their followers, worshipers, and admirers the world over (like yourself) having brought bad name to Islam through their abhorrent insane acts.

For proof of what I said above, see the threads "true Islam" (showing the video clip in which your beloved Taleban are stoning a girl and a boy to death) and "90 Iraqi youth" in the Religion sub-forum stoned to death for their acts of adolescence by Islamist police with authority granted by the interior ministry of Iraq according to the Law of Islam. You can also search the Youtube for video clips of other such barbaric acts by your brothers in ideology and politics.

I know that you like other West-based defenders of Islam would present apologetic explanation of the acts mentioned above and blame them on the ignorant interpretation of Sharia Law by the perpetrators but the plain fact is, those who sanctioned these punishments did so through authority correctly derived in their thinking from Sharia. So the basis of the interpretation whether correct or incorrect are already there in the original sources of the religious law. Your excuses and apologetic explanation can convince no one.

But I know that like others, you are devoid of the ability to judge your own ideology based on any logical merit; rather for you it is a matter of ego and blind belief .e., because you own an ideology and your ancestors owned it as well so you think you must defend it whether defend-able or not .

[BarakzaiAbdali]

There you again. The very proof of your utter lack of objectivity is what you mention. If you are not toramana you certainly are his automatan. Take for instance your post on "real Islam". The reality is that Islamic history and execution of this law by the prophet define ideal objective sharia. So when a young man approached the prophet with an admission of guilt the repeated turning away and eventual discussion indicated he preferred the young man seek refuge in God and not bring this matter to light. Also pertinent is the behavior toward aishah bibi who was accused and seen on camel back entering medina by hundreds yet a month passed and she nor the male that gave her the ride were harmed.

No toramana your mind is feces infested and your intentions are to ensure a clash of civilizations to suit your psychotic dreams. As noted your mockery of the Hijri calender buttresses this.

The first thing is, I am not Toramana and the admins can corroborate that through my authentication record. The second thing is, it is not me or any other liberal or secular member of this forum having demonized Islam; these are rather your beloved Osama Bin Laden and the one-eyed Mullah Omar and their followers, worshipers, and admirers the world over (like yourself) having brought bad name to Islam through their abhorrent insane acts.

For proof of what I said above, see the threads "true Islam" (showing the video clip in which your beloved Taleban are stoning a girl and a boy to death) and "90 Iraqi youth" in the Religion sub-forum stoned to death for their acts of adolescence by Islamist police with authority granted by the interior ministry of Iraq according to the Law of Islam. You can also search the Youtube for video clips of other such barbaric acts by your brothers in ideology and politics.

I know that you like other West-based defenders of Islam would present apologetic explanation of the acts mentioned above and blame them on the ignorant interpretation of Sharia Law by the perpetrators but the plain fact is, those who sanctioned these punishments did so through authority correctly derived in their thinking from Sharia. So the basis of the interpretation whether correct or incorrect are already there in the original sources of the religious law. Your excuses and apologetic explanation can convince no one.

But I know that like others, you are devoid of the ability to judge your own ideology based on any logical merit; rather for you it is a matter of ego and blind belief .e., because you own an ideology and your ancestors owned it as well so you think you must defend it whether defend-able or not .

[DaMalakandGhar]