Chechnya

[al-arab]

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh to all brothers and sisters.

I just want to post a interesting documentary about the brave Mujahideen in Chechnya (among others) and their noble course.

May Almighty Allah guide them to victory.

The Smell of Paradise 1 of 4 - YouTube[/URL]

The Smell of Paradise 2 of 4 - YouTube

The Smell of Paradise 3 of 4 - YouTube

The Smell of Paradise 4 of 4 - YouTube

[Afghanistan2010]

Amir Al Khattab the giant,beautiful man ...may Allah give him the highest place in paradise.

He taught those terrorist russians great lessons in daghestan.

[abassinafghan]

i have respect for the chechens , bust most of them are mercenaries , they are paid good money to fight against the americans , and they are professional soldiers .

one consider them haqqanis or rocketyars pmcs ....

[Soldat_Amir]

Arab Propaganda, funded by CIA and the Saudis.

You ever read "Plan caucausus"?

Only an Arab would say Chechens wanted Sharia and Islami emerite.

Most of the Chechens who fought during the first Chechen-Russo War changed sides to the Russians, after they found out, what happens when you allow Arabs into the region.

Look at how they killed Akhmad Kadyrov, a suicide bomber in a civilian stadiem.

Most Chechens love Russia, thats why all the former rebels joined Russia, and fought against a long struggle against Wahabis, who started killing off Chechen Sufis!

Chechens do not want Wahabi flith from Arabia.

You can post all these Western propaganda documentaries as much as you want, but at the end of the day, the Chechen Jihadis are armed and trained by CIA/Mi6 and Saudi Intelligence, and luckly Kadyrov has eradicated all flith in Chechnya, all those Jihadi Vermin are dead, Khattab was armed by CIA! he received many stringers from CIA operatives in Chechnya.

Chechnya is in a better position now, there is development now, and Vermin from the middle east has been eliminated!

Chechens love Music and their culture, and they dont want backward bedions from Arabia with their Jihadi culture ruining the Chechen identity.

Putin has just made one of the biggest mosques for the Chechens in whole of Europe, while the Arabs who came into Chechnya, built suicide bombing camps, even for females too, that is what happens when you allow Arabs to influence or settle in your countries, just like the Jews, they find sneeky ways to take over and make one another fight eachother.

These Arabs have been killed in the 100s by both Chechen security forces and Russian Spetnaz units, as a matter of fact, why dont these Arabs go and do their Jihads in Saudi Arabia or Dubai?

Where ever they go they bring problems to that country!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Arab Propaganda, funded by CIA and the Saudis.

You ever read "Plan caucausus"?

Only an Arab would say Chechens wanted Sharia and Islami emerite.

Most of the Chechens who fought during the first Chechen-Russo War changed sides to the Russians, after they found out, what happens when you allow Arabs into the region.

Look at how they killed Akhmad Kadyrov, a suicide bomber in a civilian stadiem.

Most Chechens love Russia, thats why all the former rebels joined Russia, and fought against a long struggle against Wahabis, who started killing off Chechen Sufis!

Chechens do not want Wahabi flith from Arabia.

You can post all these Western propaganda documentaries as much as you want, but at the end of the day, the Chechen Jihadis are armed and trained by CIA/Mi6 and Saudi Intelligence, and luckly Kadyrov has eradicated all flith in Chechnya, all those Jihadi Vermin are dead, Khattab was armed by CIA! he received many stringers from CIA operatives in Chechnya.

Chechnya is in a better position now, there is development now, and Vermin from the middle east has been eliminated!

Chechens love Music and their culture, and they dont want backward bedions from Arabia with their Jihadi culture ruining the Chechen identity.

Putin has just made one of the biggest mosques for the Chechens in whole of Europe, while the Arabs who came into Chechnya, built suicide bombing camps, even for females too, that is what happens when you allow Arabs to influence or settle in your countries, just like the Jews, they find sneeky ways to take over and make one another fight eachother.

These Arabs have been killed in the 100s by both Chechen security forces and Russian Spetnaz units, as a matter of fact, why dont these Arabs go and do their Jihads in Saudi Arabia or Dubai?

Where ever they go they bring problems to that country!

Sorry my friend, Plan Caucases has been noted to not have much validity in the ways of facts and started out as a documentary. A much more widely accepted text called:
Cechnya: tombstone of Russian Power, by Anatol Leiven notes to the contrary. It is a celebrated text consistently recieving high marks on its accuracy:

That Chechnyan discontent was already prominent during the SOVIET era as well as
"SOVIET official statistics showed Chechnya close to the bottom of the list of Russian autonomous republics and regions in most socioeconomic and educational indicators." page 57

"In the spring of 1990 protests amongst the Chechnyans themselves spread even to the villages, and all over Chechnya unpopular officials and ethnic Russians were forced to resign." ibid

In fact page 60 goes on to note that when Russia made the central decision to suppress the Chechnyans the Chechnyan communists were caught off gaurd and even they were upset

In fact, Russian official Bislan Ganterimov told the author "I have said and will say again, if there is a Russian intervention, the WHOLE chechen people will unite against us. It would be a disaster."
PROVING that it had nothing to do with Islamists. (page 88)

In fact it was Russian action in other interventions that led Chechen leaders to formulate their ideology:

page 91 notes:

"This period saw the first widepsread public mention of Colonel Aslan Maskkadov as Cheif of Staff of Chechen government forces. A SOVIET ARTILLERY COLONEL WHO HAD SERVED IN AFGHANISTAN, he had been disgusted by the attempted Russian military intervention in January 1991, which he had witnessed and eventually RESIGNED FROM THE RUSSIAN ARMY and returned to Chechnya to organize Chechyan forces against the thread of Russian invasion"

on pg 105 an MVD RUSSIAN ARMY CAPTAIN himself gives information and says "I was in the caucases before and three dayss after we were made to kill innocent people we sat and looked at eachother and asked, My God, what have we done..."

does sound like he was killing Arabs Soldat brother.

In fact the author would go on to meet Commander Dokayev and he noted "the whole population here was involved in defence" page 118

Regarding atrocities... it was not the Islamists that did this... rather the author goes to note:

"atrocities by russian troops took three forms.... " page 130

http://books.google.com/books?id=hEF...20poll&f=false

Finally, all teh suicide bombers have been Chechens themselves, not really even empirically supporting your notion that the Chechens have pro Russian aspirations.

Moreover, it was the SECOND chechen war itself that mobilized these elements of the Muslim world into Chechnya. So the Russian action itself caused the struggle to go global, by killing off leaders with a nationalistic bent and their being replaced with more strigent lower rank leaders who accepted aid from the outsiders.

Here are two well researched papers from the Jamestown Foundation destroying the propaganda link that Russia promotes between Afghan muj fighters and the chechen resistance:

"In light of the nature of the unsubstantiated claims of "thousands" of
mysterious Chechens serving in the Afghan theater in 2001-2002
(reflected in the total lack of any evidence of even a single Chechen
fighting on behalf of the Taliban in Afghanistan, as was demonstrated
in part one of this series; see Chechnya Weekly, October 2, 2003), the
intelligence community and Western media owe it to themselves to
explore the factual origins of the rumors that have transferred anti-
Russian Chechen insurgents en masse across the globe to the lands of

America's Taliban enemies..."

http://www.brianglynwilliams.com/shattered_ll.pdf

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/nc...185&no_cache=1

Whats all the more interesting is that I do not understand your view on separatist states for ethnic populations.

So what you are saying is that

1) Chechens do not deserve autonomy even though we have definitively shown they did.

2) Pashtuns deserve autonomy from Pakistan even though an overwhelming amount of them are not rising up against the central government.

In other places you have indicated that the natural tendencies of the Libyans and other groups also do not deserve recognition... but once again... Pakistan could retort that they have then, the same right in terms of suppressing a Pashtunistan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Here is a review of the Plan Caucases documentary:

"The Caucasus Plan," aired by Russia's Channel One on April 22, is labeled a "documentary," but borders at times on Soviet-style agitprop. It claims that Chechnya's battle for independence from Russia in the 1990s was orchestrated by the West."

Here is the rest of the review:

"Conspiracy Theories


Andrei Babitsky, a correspondent with RFE/RL's Russian Service who has covered events in Chechnya extensively, dismissed the film's conclusions out of hand. "As far as how close this is to reality, of course some details of the film are true," Babitsky said. "But they are used as a whole to try to prove a myth that some intelligence services from various countries are working to dismember Russia. Such conspiracy theories are typical of the Putin epoch."


The documentary closes with a foreboding warning that despite the Kremlin's success in quelling the Chechen rebellion, the Western plot to take the North Caucasus from Russia is still active.


"The Caucasus Plan," produced by Channel One correspondent Anton Vernitsky, is just the latest in a series of such programs aired on Russian television in recent years.


A prime-time documentary aired on state-controlled Rossia television on September 30, titled "Barkhat.ru" (Velvet.ru), alleged that the CIA was planning to overthrow the Kremlin elite with an Orange Revolution-style uprising in Russia.


The slickly produced report places the CIA at the epicenter of a massive conspiracy to overthrow the Kremlin leadership. The producers claimed participants in the plot included opposition groups such as Other Russia, of which Garry Kasparov is a prominent leader; pro-democracy youth organizations, such as Smena; foreign NGOs, like Freedom House; and the Western mass media."

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1109623.html

[Zmarak]

I am eternally grateful to BarakzaiAbdali for having the time to write these eloquent, well informed, intelligent responses. I don't have the time personally. However one thing, when Soldat says that all Chechen "Jihadi Vermin" (translates to anyone who openly opposed or fought back against the aggressors) are dead he is parrotting Russian government propaganda designed to sell the Russian populace a romantic pro-Russian, false reality and distorted view of Chechnya. He is excluding perhaps the most well known leading individual in the resistance, Dokka Abu Usman who is certainly not dead and is accompanied by countless Chechens, Ingush and Dagestanis as I write this. Russian media claims that he is dead or BELIEVED TO BE dead every few months, then a new video is released bearing proof that he is still alive. If someone will make broad statements of this sort that are obvious lies, for the sake of sensational agenda-based propaganda, what else are they being less than honest about?

[Soldat_Amir]

Most of the rebels joined Russia when they realised the west was trying to divide Russia. As a matter of fact, the number of Westerners and Arabs caught alive by Russian special forces is amazing.

The West controls the Kavkaz centre Jihadi Propaganda cell to defame Russia and cause problems there.

Most Chechens realised the mess they were put in by external enemies, when they started to see influx of foreigners especially from Saudi Arabia starting killing their singers, famous people and intellectual community, the exact same way, the Arabs did to Pashtuns, by killing off the educated ones, they find it easy to infiltrate the say less educated ones, especially those in the rural areas.

Look at these articles

http://www.eurasiareview.com/2609201...2%80%93-again/

I hope that gives you a little hint.

Arabs went into Chechnya, and turned it into stone age, nobody heard of suicide bombings and public lashing, until the Saudis brought it over, the exact same way they did to Afghanistan.

Funny enough, Chechens fought alongside Russian soldiers during the Ossetia and Georgia War, while Jihadis went onto the side of Georgia armed by NATO.

Al Arab....nobody wants your sort in Chechnya, I dare you to go there and start that Pro Arab Pro Jihadi trash and see what will happen to you.

[Soldat_Amir]

Al Arab...Let me make it nice and simple for you to understand what most Chechens want.

Chechens want this







They do not want this

[Afghanistan2010]

yes and this is why the insurgency has continued til this day

kavkaz center check their website .

you would have been a great NAZI GERMAN If you were during the era of 1933 in Germany.

let me guess you believe in Santa Claus too.

[Tjanaparh]

Nobody has of You an idea about Caucasus! How can You be so convinced!
Kavkazcenter propaganda isn't lesser propaganda than the one of Russian army in the 90ies!
How can you call people like Basaev or Raduev Muslims? How can You call Umarov a patriot if he wants to make Ottoma Turkish the official language?
I have o many questions, You are naif and not well informed!

By the way Ossetians are not a Christian nation, there are as CHristian as Muslim Ossetians, how many times to tell it?
And the conflict on the caucasus isn't so much a religious conflict, religion is missused for this conflict simply.


I have unfortunately not enough time to bring and search all texts in english You can consukt, but the Ideas about the situation on the caucasus conflict are wrong.
Please inform by real Caucasians on the situation and history of Caucasus!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Al Arab...Let me make it nice and simple for you to understand what most Chechens want.

Chechens want this







They do not want this

That may be the case, but the premise of your initial argument is where the flaw lies brother Amir,

That premise was that the sequence of events went like this:

Islamists enter Chechnya with Western backing ---> foment for war ---> Russia shrugs and triesa the peaceful route ---> Wahabites wont accept ---> Russia forced to war

Edward Walker, the executive director of Berkeley's Soviet Studies program ardently disagrees:

"Indeed, I believe that it is very possible that most Chechens would have been willing to settle for something short of full legal independence but that the political elite on both sides failed to explore the possibilities. What the Chechens were clearly unwilling to accept, however, was the dispatch of Russian troops to their territory to restore central writ, which they viewed as a foreign invasion of

their homeland. When Yeltsin declared a state of emergency in the republic after the declaration of independence in November 1991, it quickly became clear that the Chechens would resist the "invasion" by force of arms, at which point Yeltsin (wisely) ordered his interior ministry troops to withdraw. This led in turn to the standoff between Grozny and Moscow that was to last until the full-scale Russian invasion at the end of 1994."

In fact it was the LACK Of western support that forced the Chechen rebels, who were responding to invasion, to themselves radicalize:

"At least until the early months of the war itself, the conventional wisdom was that Islam had very little to do either with the standoff between Moscow and Chechnya between late 1991 and late 1994 or with the fierce Chechen resistance to Russian occupation after the invasion in December 1994. Indeed, the Chechen constitution adopted under Dudaev (which admittedly had a Potemkin village-like quality to it) was decidedly liberal in substance. It established a secular democratic state and provided for freedom of religion and expression, apparently in part because Dudaev hoped for, and expected, support for Chechen "self-determination" from the West. Dudaev's secularism began to change only after it became clear that the West would not support Chechen demands for independence, at which point he began to look to the Islamic world for support. At one point, he visited Iran and
called for a jihad against Moscow (which did little to endear him to Yeltsin, or to Western leaders, for that matter).


So in reality the order of processes was as follows:

1) Chechen people wanted a degree of autonomy --> 2) Russians refused believing this would destablize their hold on the caucuses --> 3) Russians invade Grozney ---> 4) Chechens do NOT get western support as they had expected ---> 5) Islam becomes a part of the unifying resistance role:

Dr. Walker confirms this with:

"But it was also because Islam provided such an effective ideology of
resistance for the Chechens. Not only did the appeal to Islam draw on the cult of the mujahadin, but it taught that those who gave their lives for the cause were martyrs who would go straight to heaven. The war, in short, led to the

politicization of Islam— politicized Islam did not lead to war."

Regarding introduction of Wahabbism... it was NOT THE ARABS that introduced any strands of it... but rather the Chechens themselves:

"Available evidence suggests that there are indeed self-described Wahhabis in the North Caucasus but that

Wahhabism is considerably less widespread than many in Moscow fear. Wahhabism began to establish a presence in

the region after Soviet Muslims began to travel to Saudi Arabia for the hadj in the perestroika era."

So the bottom line of all of this is that we have proven definitively

1) The Western states did not support the Chechen independence fighters
2) Wahhabism was not introduced by Arabs, but rather by groups of Chechens
3) The innate goal of the Chechens was autonomy but the Russians made the situation worse and fomented rebellion and then radicalization when they occupied the place.

[Afghanistan2010]

first they were talkin and making up stories with ISI and pakistan now its i think the arab season lol.

they come always with new bulls*#t

[Tjanaparh]

Arevapasht:

Is this message to me?

I have never mentioned Kavkazcenter.

Nor have I said who was Muslim or who was not.

The fact is that the Chechen nation has been under Russian oppresion for 440 years.

I, as I told you before have Caucsasian ancestry (distant but still) and I know a lot about the region and I have talked with a lot of Caucasians (Adyghe) who happens to live in Iraq/Jordan/Saudi Arabia/Syria were I have family, adn they have told me about Russian attrocities that are well known for the outside world.

90 percent of all Ossetians are Christians, check all sources.

I have never said that it is about religion I have only said that the Caucassian people should have their freedom as you Armenians have. I wonder if you would be satisfied with being a region in Russia governed by a corrupted and puppet government installed by the Russians (Kadyrov Junior).

You (for historic and personal reasons) and obviously most communist here (I am only talking about the 3-4 Pashtuns here who are self-confessed communists) may like Russia but in truth they are imperialist just as USA who have killed millions of Muslims since the year 1500. (when the Russians stopped being under Mongol influence). What an irony considering the damage the Mongols did in Russia in terms of culture, mass killings etc.


Soldat-Kafir:

I like how you somehow thing that ALL Chechens love Russians (what are you thinking?!) and that the puppet Chechen government is somehow a Muslim country. You could not be more wrong.

The point is that Chechens as a seperate nation want their own land but the Russians do not allow them that even though they have granted freedom to the Baltic countries, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenian, Kazakhstan, Kirgistan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan even though they still try to show their fillthy faces and intervene in those countries policies.

All resistance for the cause of freedom for the Chechen nation should be supported as theh are our Muslims brother's and sister's. They have just as much a right to be a free country as Palestine for example.

You may not think that it is about religion but the FACT is that 99 percent of all Chechens are Muslims and a lot of them want to live in a FREE Muslim country not a pseudo-Muslim country ruled by Russia.

I also like the fact that you show pictures of people, bar 1, that all are not Arabs but Chechens.

I also should tell you that suicide bombings are not the invention of Arabs but in fact where first used by Jews when they fought against the British occupation and later mostly by the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

You need to accept that for us Muslims Almighty Allah's law is more important and more true than anything else, especially man-made laws that are corrupt and exploit people as is the case in Chechnya right now.

And may I also inform you that Shariah in practice is not the Shariah version Western media try to potray.

I think you should travel a bit in the Arab world. 20 percent of Saudi Arabia are non-Muslims and they live peaceful wither Muslims and have no problems with Shariah (as it is not their law, since they are not Muslims) but they still respect the local costums and many of them tell me that they prefer that kind of live than, let's say American society with's all it's egoism, stupid tv-reality show's. Paris Hilton's and other garbage.

Apart from that: You seem to love the Western society but inside yourself you are well aware that you will never be accepted fully by the Western society even though you betray your religion, costumes, culture etc. and become a atheist as you have. You will still be viewed as different and people will still be suspicious. This is not something I have invented but something the majority of Muslim immigrants say in the West and it's not really rocket science to say exactly that since the opinion of Muslims (wrongly because of ignorance, propaganda, racism etc., the same values who have taken to you when you speak about Islam and Arabs) are dominated.

You should really read about the Islamic history from the Abbasid dynasty based in Baghdad to Al-Andalus in Spain. All those dynasties where famous for their tolerance, science, literature, high culture and splendid culture.

But no, most people in the West have not even heard about this things but can only talk about how THEY THEMSELVES have made the Muslim and Arab world problematic through their greed, colonialism, ignorant and selfish policies. From colonial Spain down to French, British, Russian, English and now American imperialism. You should not better as a Pashtun!!!!

But no, you are too blinded by the so-called freedom and "wonderful" society that is England.

Especially the Americans and Europeans who until recently hanged Black people publicly, discriminated them (and still do as with other minorities), killed millions of native people, divided countries because of their imperialist policies, burned heratics (so-called witches) etc.

At the same time does people dare to teach us Muslims and especially Arabs (who have a way older culture than them) how to live and what to do!

I and Alhamdulillah most Muslims do not and will not tolerate that behaviour!

But well it is a lost cause with you so I better stop know before this communist (the ideology that has been responsible for most killings in human history) gets on my nerve again!

No its not sigulary to You dear Al Arab, but about the ossetians it was to You!
Do not worry! Excuse me I am a bit busy - I still have to answer Your PM
Today I have to go for Georgia - so I will answer You a bit later