World's Largest Online Pashtun Community

Go Back   "Pull out your swords and slay anyone that says Pashtun and Afghan are not one! Arabs know this and so do Romans: Afghans are Pashtuns, Pashtuns are Afghans!" -Khushal Khattak > >
Reload this Page Kurdistan referendum
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
(#1)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Thumbs up Kurdistan referendum - 09-22-2017, 03:25 PM

It is a great achievement for the Kurds to reach this point in their history where they can exercise their right to self-determination to stay within a federal Iraq or go their separate way as a sovereign state.

I think the choice is quite obvious.

I look forward to the day that an independent Kurdistan becomes a reality. One small good news out of the usual pile of sh!t news typical of the Middle East.




Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Friends of Baloch For This Useful Post:
maneatinglizard (09-22-2017)
(#2)
Old
maneatinglizard maneatinglizard is online now
PF Frequent visitor
maneatinglizard is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 283
Thanks: 308
Thanked 136 Times in 102 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default 09-22-2017, 05:07 PM

Didn't the Iraqi government try to block the referendum? The Kurds likely still have a long struggle ahead of them.

There's a similar referendum coming up in Catalonia. Spanish government is trying really hard to stop that too.

Seems like people of the world are waking up to the fact that many of their "beloved" nations actually don't make any sense are the cause for their troubles. I don't think dividing further is a great idea in the long run, but if it can move us towards borders that make more sense and result in better treatment of everyone, then hopefully these referendums will work out.

I wonder what would happen if someone tried to hold such a referendum in Pakistan. Or India.

Last edited by maneatinglizard; 09-22-2017 at 05:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Default 09-22-2017, 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
Didn't the Iraqi government try to block the referendum? The Kurds likely still have a long struggle ahead of them.

They have, but do not have the power to stop it from happening. Turkey, Iran, America and even the UN have all opposed it taking place at this time, but to the credit of the Kurds, they have ignored all foreign pressures and interference.

The only issue with independent Kurdistan is that it will likely have to fall under Israel's wing in their early years, if not longer. They have no other partners in the Middle East.

Quote:
I wonder what would happen if someone tried to hold such a referendum in Pakistan.
Hmm let me think

Lets not even think to compare Kurdistan to Pakiland, that is a major insult to the Kurds.


Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Default 09-22-2017, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
Didn't the Iraqi government try to block the referendum? The Kurds likely still have a long struggle ahead of them.

There's a similar referendum coming up in Catalonia. Spanish government is trying really hard to stop that too.

Seems like people of the world are waking up to the fact that many of their "beloved" nations actually don't make any sense are the cause for their troubles. I don't think dividing further is a great idea in the long run, but if it can move us towards borders that make more sense and result in better treatment of everyone, then hopefully these referendums will work out.


I wonder what would happen if someone tried to hold such a referendum in Pakistan. Or India.
Catalonia is mainly about economics. Even Italy has a separatist movement that wants to separate the north from the south, even though it was north Italy that conquered central and south Italy to make it all just one country. But that too, is mainly about economics.

Kurdistan is so much more than that.


Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
maneatinglizard maneatinglizard is online now
PF Frequent visitor
maneatinglizard is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 283
Thanks: 308
Thanked 136 Times in 102 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default 09-22-2017, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friends of Baloch View Post
Lets not even think to compare Kurdistan to Pakiland, that is a major insult to the Kurds.
What I mean is, how would Pakistan react if one the minority groups tried to hold a referendum on independence. Like if the Balochistan independence movement became popular enough that they tried to hold a referendum on forming an independent state.

Or if one of the secessionist movements in India did the same there. I have a feeling it'd result in a blood bath.
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Default 09-22-2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
What I mean is, how would Pakistan react if one the minority groups tried to hold a referendum on independence. Like if the Balochistan independence movement became popular enough that they tried to hold a referendum on forming an independent state.

Or if one of the secessionist movements in India did the same there. I have a feeling it'd result in a blood bath.
Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti was killed for asking for less, so you have your answer.

In both Pakiland and India it will end the same way as they both have the same backwards culture and mentality, which is in a blood bath as you correctly think.


You dont have to look very hard as there are many other examples than Balochistan, like Bangladesh liberation war in 1971 and Indian army attack on Sikhs holiest temple in 1984 etc

Fortunately for the Kurds of Iraq, Baghdad cannot use force to stop them this time. I hope that Kurds of Syria will be able to reach the same level of security to decide their own future too.


Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Thumbs down 09-24-2017, 03:18 PM

On Eve of Kurdish Independence Vote, a Warning From Turkey
By DAVID ZUCCHINOSEPT. 23, 2017
On Eve of Kurdish Independence Vote, a Warning From Turkey - The New York Times

ERBIL, Iraq — Kurds seeking independence from Iraq came under intense pressure on Saturday from their powerful neighbor, Turkey, which demanded that Iraqi Kurdistan cancel an independence vote scheduled for Monday.

Turkey, the main link to the outside world for the autonomous Kurdish enclave in northern Iraq, threatened economic and diplomatic retaliation if Kurds carried out a referendum that the Turkish government called a “terrible mistake.”

Turkey’s Parliament voted late Saturday to renew for one year a mandate to authorize military intervention in Iraq or Syria if Turkey determines that developments there threaten national security. Turkey, a NATO member, is conducting tank exercises on its border with Iraqi Kurdistan.

Turkey’s prime minister, Binali Yildirim, asked by reporters in Ankara, the capital, whether a cross-border incursion was possible, replied that security operations were “a question of timing” based on “developing conditions.”

Iraq’s Kurds refused to back down. The Kurdish region’s president, Massoud Barzani, said the independence vote would proceed as scheduled despite threats from Turkey as well as Iran.

“It’s too late to talk about delaying the referendum,” Mr. Barzani said in a statement released by his office in Erbil on Saturday.

“It’s not my decision anymore, he added. “It’s a decision for the people.”

In a defiant speech on Friday evening to 40,000 Kurds in Erbil chanting “Bye-bye Iraq,” Mr. Barzani said of Turkey and Iran: “You have punished us for one hundred years. Are you not tired yet?”

Both Turkey and Iran fear that an independence move by Iraqi Kurds could set off unrest among their own Kurdish minorities.

Baghdad considers the vote illegal and unconstitutional, and Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi of Iraq has said his government is prepared to use military force if the referendum provokes violence. A delegation of Kurdish leaders traveled to Baghdad on Saturday to discuss the referendum with Iraqi officials.

Ali al-Alaq, a member of Iraq’s Parliament who has led talks with the Kurds, said in an interview that the discussions would continue over the weekend. But he said negotiations would end if the vote were conducted on Monday.

Kurdish officials said voting had already begun Saturday among Iraqi Kurdish expatriates in Germany, Denmark, Britain and Switzerland. Some waved the Kurdistan flag.

The United States and most of the international community have opposed the referendum, saying it could unleash ethnic conflict, break up Iraq and undermine the American-led campaign against Islamic State militants.

Iran, the Kurdish region’s eastern neighbor, has threatened border closures, prompting some Kurds to stockpile food and supplies.

Kurdish officials in Erbil, Iraqi Kurdistan’s capital, said they were continuing to talk on Saturday with American officials. The Kurdistan Regional Government has said it would scrap the referendum only if the United States provided an ironclad guarantee of a path to independence within a specified time.

The United States has urged Kurds to cancel the vote and begin negotiations with Baghdad, facilitated by Washington. Kurdish leaders say they want a public mandate from the Kurdish people before negotiating independence.

After the Americans established a no-fly zone in 1991 that protected Kurdish areas from attacks by Saddam Hussein’s troops, the Kurds have carved out an autonomous region with its own government, parliament and military. Kurdish fighters known as the pesh merga have played a central role, alongside Iraqi troops, in operations against the Islamic State.

The referendum would not lead directly to independence, but a strong “yes” vote would strengthen the Kurdish position in any negotiations with Baghdad. Rozh Nouri Shaways, leader of the Kurdish delegation in Baghdad, told reporters that Kurdistan was willing to negotiate with Iraq before and after the referendum.

Baghdad and Iraqi Kurdistan are locked in a longstanding dispute over contested areas, including oil-rich Kirkuk, seized by Kurdish fighters in 2014. Baghdad fears that the independence vote, which includes citizens of the contested areas, would strengthen Kurdish claims to those territories.

The ballot asks voters whether they want Kurdistan and the contested areas to become an independent state.

Kirkuk’s provincial governor, Najmaldin Karim, a Kurd, urged residents on Saturday to prepare to vote on Monday. “All the preparations have been made,” Mr. Karim told the Kurdish news agency Rudaw. He called the vote “historical.”

On Saturday morning, the police controlled by the Baghdad government withdrew from their posts in the city of Kirkuk and surrounding areas, according to local officials. They said that the police and government-paid school administrators had been directed by Baghdad not to assist with the referendum. Much of the voting is scheduled to take place at schools.

Kurdish officials said security officers from the Kurdistan Regional Government took over responsibility Saturday for security in the area.


Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
Elite Pakhtun's Avatar
Elite Pakhtun Elite Pakhtun is offline
PF contributor
Elite Pakhtun is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,152
Thanks: 366
Thanked 174 Times in 152 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default 09-24-2017, 04:03 PM

It's a useless exercise. They will not gain independence, as it's a non-binding referendum, and they're predominantly in Turkey, not Iraq. Their geographic footprint in Iraq is low.

Turkey would conduct military action if the threat of splitting is real. Who would think otherwise?
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
Friends of Baloch's Avatar
Friends of Baloch Friends of Baloch is offline
PF knowledgeable
Friends of Baloch is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 693
Thanks: 137
Thanked 391 Times in 273 Posts
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2013
Default 09-24-2017, 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Pakhtun View Post
It's a useless exercise. They will not gain independence, as it's a non-binding referendum, and they're predominantly in Turkey, not Iraq. Their geographic footprint in Iraq is low.

Turkey would conduct military action if the threat of splitting is real. Who would think otherwise?
Kurds in Iraq dont care about threats from Turkey. This is about Iraq, not Turkey. Independence of Kurdistan from Iraq is inevitable, everybody can see this, but the current leadership there wants to expedite the process and demonstrate to both Baghdad and the World that they have a mandate from their people to begin the formal process of independence negotiations and acquire support from foreign governments. The referendum result will give them the formal mandate they want to demonstrate to the rest of the World. Informally, everybody already knows that Iraqi Kurds want to go their separate way no matter what political faction they belong to. Pro-Barzani or anti-Barzani, they are all united on independent Kurdistan.

Baghdad is in no position to use force against the Kurds.

What Turkey and Iran think about it is being ignored in Erbil. For Iraqi Kurds, this is an issue solely about Iraq.

Monday is going to be interesting.


Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
Elite Pakhtun's Avatar
Elite Pakhtun Elite Pakhtun is offline
PF contributor
Elite Pakhtun is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,152
Thanks: 366
Thanked 174 Times in 152 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jul 2016
Default 09-24-2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friends of Baloch View Post
Kurds in Iraq dont care about threats from Turkey. This is about Iraq, not Turkey. Independence of Kurdistan from Iraq is inevitable, everybody can see this, but the current leadership there wants to expedite the process and demonstrate to both Baghdad and the World that they have a mandate from their people to begin the formal process of independence negotiations and acquire support from foreign governments. The referendum result will give them the formal mandate they want to demonstrate to the rest of the World. Informally, everybody already knows that Iraqi Kurds want to go their separate way no matter what political faction they belong to. Pro-Barzani or anti-Barzani, they are all united on independent Kurdistan.

Baghdad is in no position to use force against the Kurds.

What Turkey and Iran think about it is being ignored in Erbil. For Iraqi Kurds, this is an issue solely about Iraq.

Monday is going to be interesting.
Why do you think Baghdad is not in a position to retaliate?

Baghdad will not be alone in desiring to conduct bombing raids on the Koordz... sounds like a ****ing pigeon. Kooorrrr... kooorrrrrrd.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kurdistan, news, day, forward, laugh1

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




History of Pashtuns| Learn Pashto Online| Afghan Wiki| TheHujra.com| Pukhtoogle| Afghan MP3| Khyber.org| Pukhto.net| Tor_Khan's blog| Abdul Rahman Karim's blog| Voices of the Pashtun land| Pashto TV

Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
No part of this site may be copied without permission of the administration. The views, posts, opinions and threads expressed by members of the community here are not necessarily those of the staff and management of Pashtun Forums.